Why do French manufacturers not care?

[Heartworm]

nickfrog said:

Sorry to hear that. I had a Kadjar as a Company car for a couple of years and really liked it.

The cruise control main button is weird but from memory you can just leave it on once and for all so not an issue.

Audio controls are a bit of an idiosyncrasy indeed. If you've never used the Renault system then it is a pain to get used to it in a rental car. On the other hand, having used it for many years it remains the best there is ergonomically for me.

The rest of the car is a Qashqai in effect but bigger and particularly the boot, which made it super practical.

Agree with this, switch the cruise on and it stays on,

You get used to the audio controls, and I much prefer them to those fixed onto the wheel. I wish Renault still sold a Laguna class car.

[Harry H]

Different strokes.... and all that.

Personally I feel the XC40 has more than a few short comings as a car. Never mind ergonomics the Volvo has horrendous on/off brakes, a steering system connected with rubber bands, an engine full of old nails and an awful touch screen for every control.

She hates it, I've driven it a few times and also hate it.

Looks good, tick
iPad, tick
SUV, tick

"Yes, we know it's a crap car but the above means it'll sell".

[bungz]

Had a Kadjar for the last week while my new duster was having a few issues looked at.

Its based on the same platform I believe.

Seemed a lot more cluttered in the Kadjar, far less room due to the center console and the stupid huge door handles to bash into my knee.

Was pretty silent though tbh, no issues with wind or tyre noise and it was on some all climates.

dashboard is awful, the tach that's just a "eco" line that mans absolutely nothing.

The odd audio trigger thing that Peugeot and Renault have used behind the wheel is actually brilliant when you get used to it, everything is tactile and is miles better than a mound of buttons on the face of a steeringwheel.

tldr duster is a nicer place to be for ten grand less. Win win.

[C70R]

Heartworm said:

Agree with this, switch the cruise on and it stays on,

Until you want the speed limiter, and then you're groping around in an unlit area by the handbrake, in the dark, on the motorway.

[Olivera]

It's a re-bodied Qashqai that's punted out by the tens of thousand as a family bus. Most owners probably don't care beyond: can it fit the kids, is it okay on fuel, is it reliable - if it can do that, and usually at a value for money price, then job done.

[nickfrog]

C70R said:

nickfrog said:

C70R said:

I can't see any way that is objectively 'better' than being able to control track and volume from a 4-way 'd-pad' arrangement, under a thumb on the steering wheel?

I am really sorry but I find the Renault system objectively better as you can leave your thumb in the steering wheel at 9.15 in the optimum hand position.

I think you're possibly a little biased, having had time to grow used to it, as you mentioned.

If Renault are the only ones doing it like this, does it make them...
1. Rebels?
2. Visionaries?
3. Deluded?

The thing is if you rent a car abroad and drive it on unfamiliar roads the last thing you want is to not being able to use it properly so I can totally see why the audio thing was a stressful experience as it probably takes a couple of weeks to get used it and only after which you start appreciating it.

As for bias, I don't know. I like it so I say I like it. If I had disliked it I would have said I don't like it.

Interesting question about Renault, which I had never thought about. On this instance they are probably innovators who didn't account for normal human resistance to change. Or are banking on resistance to change and sound innovation (pun) to maximise customer retention, judging by the amount of people who think it is a superior system in this thread alone.

[nickfrog]

C70R said:

Heartworm said:

Agree with this, switch the cruise on and it stays on,

Until you want the speed limiter, and then you're groping around in an unlit area by the handbrake, in the dark, on the motorway.

I have never used the speed limiter per se. I just use cruise as my speed limiter.

[TwistingMyMelon]

On the old anecdotes -

Ive driven lots of Volvo XC xxx's and could never get comfy - its like they design the seats for tall heavy people , of which im neither. I never gelled with any of the controls and as soon as you went near a corner - HOLD ON TIGHTS - ITS GONNA GET CHOPPY.

Ive driven one Renault in recent memory, maybe a new Cleo about 5 years ago, drove it up the road, hit 4k revs and got a little booast ---- a turbo on a petrol, seemed to go quite well, I quite liked it.

On the above Volvo are getting it wrong in my book

[Crumpet]

dibblecorse said:

C70R said:

Should spending less mean that I should just put up with a rubbish driving position?

Shouldn't a 'good enough' driving position be par for the course with all cars in 2022? Not least with one that would have cost £26k if I'd bought it new?

One mans rubbish driving position is another mans perfection .... you didn't like the car, it wasn't to your liking, plenty of others may well feel the same way about your car, its hardly worth a rant and a dig at the french is it ?

I once had a Clio - 2001, I think - that had the steering wheel off centre. It was ever-so-slightly to the left of where you’d actually want it. The back pain it caused me was excruciating, even as a 20-something year old.

I was later told that they design their cars to be left hand drive with no consideration for putting the wheel on the right. This goes some way to explaining why the ergonomics - on that year of Clio at least - are atrocious. There’s still no excuse for it though. To be fair, the 307 I had was very comfortable, it was just completely and utterly st. Such a bad car.

[nickfrog]

Crumpet said:

I was later told that they design their cars to be left hand drive with no consideration for putting the wheel on the right.

Whoever told you that probably doesn't understand the global nature of the automotive industry.

RHD offset can be a right pain in the back indeed as sometimes they have to make slight compromises but they do design the cars to be both, they're often even made on the same line.

BMWs do have a slight offset too.

[Miserablegit]

C70R said:

The point is that I can technically do it on both.

On the Volvo, it's a button, located exactly where you'd expect, under my right thumb. It requires a simple, satisfying click.

On the Renault, it's done by locating this ridiculous audio control block, attached to the steering column at 4-5 o'clock. You then have to feel around the back of the block, find the scrolling wheel, and move it in the direction you wanted (which isn't obvious). What's that? You only wanted the next track? Oh, sorry, you went over a pothole so we've skipped three tracks for you.



It's just unforgiveably sh*t. It's like they just couldn't be bothered.

And it shouldn't take a genius to work out which of the above took less money to develop.

I think the exact same part is one of the few “parts bin pieces” used in the Alpine.
It works and is far better than a touch screen or a fat steering wheel.

[Olivera]

Miserablegit said:

C70R said:

I think the exact same part is one of the few “parts bin pieces” used in the Alpine.
It works and is far better than a touch screen or a fat steering wheel.

I can appreciate that it might work well, but it looks like they've sourced that from a 1995 Goodmans ghetto blaster.

[Miserablegit]

It works well precisely because I don’t need to look at it. I know where the volume buttons are and where the track skip button is. Very much function over form

[Casa1862]

TwistingMyMelon said:

On the old anecdotes -

Ive driven lots of Volvo XC xxx's and could never get comfy - its like they design the seats for tall heavy people

I'm the same, I've got a 2020 S60, so much fuss is made about how comfortable the seat is, i think it's rubbish, yes lots of adjustments but they've used this extending seat cushion which feels like it has a metal bar in it when it's retracted, as mentioned some think they are great. Wife has a 2016 Lexus, seat and ride comfort how it should be.

I hear on the new 2022 Volvo Google based infotainment they have removed audio from USB, no apple carplay yet, even the balance function has been removed, clearly a new car released not fully operational, at least with the Renault you have some audio to actually control!!

[Davie]

nickfrog said:

The thing is if you rent a car abroad and drive it on unfamiliar roads the last thing you want is to not being able to use it properly so I can totally see why the audio thing was a stressful experience as it probably takes a couple of weeks to get used it and only after which you start appreciating it.

So you've managed to get to a different country, via an airport, hired a car from a local, navigated your way through non UK signage, driven it sitting on the opposite side, on the opposite of the road with all their unfamiliar traffic rules whilst listening to a non English speaking radio station... but adjusting said radio using unfamiliar controls is the last thing you want? I guess this is why people go to Spain and seek out a pub that sells Carling and steak and ale pie with chips.

[WonkeyDonkey]

I've never drove a modern Renault but the other French cars i've drove lately have been a lot better than I expected.

Peugeot 308 and 3008 were both a lot lot better than I expected and i've had a Citroen Cactus for the past 4 years as it was a cheap, modern (safe) car just after my son was born.

Neither had S Class levels of refinement, but considering I got offered a brand new cactus in the top trim for £12.5k when I bought mine then you can't really expect it to!

[alanshuff]

I've had a couple of Renaults over the years, first one being a 1992 Clio 16V, which have pretty much all had the same audit controls behind the steering wheel. And it remains the most intuitive and easy to use system of all cars which have had steering wheel controls.Maybe not on day one, but it becomes second nature very quickly without having to look at the buttons. Between the side buttons, top/bottom buttons, rear scroll - each has it's own easy to remember functions.

All other cars i've had with steering wheel controls i've always had to look at the wheel to double check i'm pressing the right button.

I'd rather have old functionality than more modern (but worse) versions.

As for build quality, and maybe i'll be corrected here, but isn't the newest Clio well regarded by car reviewers for it's build quality (or interior quality)?

Suppose if we all liked the same things life would be boring.

[S100HP]

C70R said:

That block thing just feels like a classic, French 'we're going to do it differently for the sake of it' exercise.

A bit like the C5/6 steering wheel, where the centre didn't rotate with the rim.

Fun fact, the C6, unbelievably, doesn't have the fixed steering wheel like the C5 (and C4).

[nickfrog]

Davie said:

nickfrog said:

The thing is if you rent a car abroad and drive it on unfamiliar roads the last thing you want is to not being able to use it properly so I can totally see why the audio thing was a stressful experience as it probably takes a couple of weeks to get used it and only after which you start appreciating it.

So you've managed to get to a different country, via an airport, hired a car from a local, navigated your way through non UK signage, driven it sitting on the opposite side, on the opposite of the road with all their unfamiliar traffic rules whilst listening to a non English speaking radio station... but adjusting said radio using unfamiliar controls is the last thing you want? I guess this is why people go to Spain and seek out a pub that sells Carling and steak and ale pie with chips.

I wouldn't know as English is not my primary language I didn't learn to drive in a RHD car on the left with UK signage.

I hate lager and never tried steak and ale pie either. Am I missing out?

I do like Spain though and even lived there although there wasn't a pub in sight.

[StRemy]

I did not like the Kadjar I had as a rental a few years ago too much, but being a Nissan in disguise, it is not really representative of what more modern Renault models are like. The steering has a kind of lack of “definition” around the center that also makes me a little bit uncomfortable in its “brother” the (mkII) Qashqai. On a positive note, I rembember the LED front lights being spectacular.

I found the new Captur a much nicer place to be/drive, if a little bit cramped.