1981 Silver Spirit Starting issues

1981 Silver Spirit Starting issues

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Vilkenkarl

Original Poster:

4 posts

56 months

Thursday 11th July 2019
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Hi!

I found a 1981 Silver Spirit parked on a backyard for a few years. I got the car towed since the key was missing.
I made a complete service on the car incl gearbox Sprayed plenty of WD40 down into the cylinders and dusted everything off. I also drained the tank from old petrol and replaced it with fresh.
Yesterday I finally got a new key from Rolls Royce and was eager to try to start the car. I cranked it a bit without sparkplugs to drain the WD40, then I made a try.
After a few attempts, the car started! However... As soon as I stop cranking, the engine dies.
I checked the ignition coil to see if there's a Coilresistor or similar (other cars such as Jaguars normally have two wires to the coil; one from the starter delivering full power and a second from a resistor delivering 9v).
I found only two wires, a + and the - going to the distributor.

Anyone having an idea of the wiring on this cars? I would be very grateful for any advice.

Cliftonite

8,406 posts

137 months

Thursday 11th July 2019
quotequote all
Vilkenkarl said:
Hi!

I found a 1981 Silver Spirit parked on a backyard for a few years. I got the car towed since the key was missing.
I made a complete service on the car incl gearbox Sprayed plenty of WD40 down into the cylinders and dusted everything off. I also drained the tank from old petrol and replaced it with fresh.
Yesterday I finally got a new key from Rolls Royce and was eager to try to start the car. I cranked it a bit without sparkplugs to drain the WD40, then I made a try.
After a few attempts, the car started! However... As soon as I stop cranking, the engine dies.
I checked the ignition coil to see if there's a Coilresistor or similar (other cars such as Jaguars normally have two wires to the coil; one from the starter delivering full power and a second from a resistor delivering 9v).
I found only two wires, a + and the - going to the distributor.

Anyone having an idea of the wiring on this cars? I would be very grateful for any advice.
Perhaps the owner can help?



Edited by Cliftonite on Thursday 11th July 10:22

Vilkenkarl

Original Poster:

4 posts

56 months

Thursday 11th July 2019
quotequote all
Cliftonite said:
Perhaps the owner can help?



Edited by Cliftonite on Thursday 11th July 10:22
No, unfortunately not. He is old and have no technical skills what so ever
According to him, the car run well last time he drove it...

Cleaner

11 posts

73 months

Thursday 11th July 2019
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From EX Auto Sparks now 76, can inform you of the circuits hear, the Ignition coil + Terminal will be Live 12v with the Distributor points open....points closed the voltage drops to 7/9volt this is because a Lucas 1.5 ohm ballast is used, on turning Ign Key to start the voltage rises to 11/12volt, this is produced by the starter motor, on the starter you have 2 small Terminals one is for main Solonoid excite..ie...bring the starter into full motion, the other terminal only comes live when the starter turning, this feeds the coil + Higher voltage, the connection is made at the ballast, With your fault it seems only power to coil is when cranking..ie car fires...let go of Key..stops. First thing to do is Turn on Ignition...check at coil + you have voltage...no voltage ..then the ballast needs to be located and checked is there full 12volt on one terminal there.. if not as I remember Rolls had the one fuse only for coil, sorry I cant remember many many years ago now where the ballast is, what I can tell you it wont be inside the car, as these Ballasts run Hot!....there allways inside engine compartment...tucked away...but in a cool air flow place. hope of Help. Peter

Vilkenkarl

Original Poster:

4 posts

56 months

Friday 12th July 2019
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Cleaner said:
From EX Auto Sparks now 76, can inform you of the circuits hear, the Ignition coil + Terminal will be Live 12v with the Distributor points open....points closed the voltage drops to 7/9volt this is because a Lucas 1.5 ohm ballast is used, on turning Ign Key to start the voltage rises to 11/12volt, this is produced by the starter motor, on the starter you have 2 small Terminals one is for main Solonoid excite..ie...bring the starter into full motion, the other terminal only comes live when the starter turning, this feeds the coil + Higher voltage, the connection is made at the ballast, With your fault it seems only power to coil is when cranking..ie car fires...let go of Key..stops. First thing to do is Turn on Ignition...check at coil + you have voltage...no voltage ..then the ballast needs to be located and checked is there full 12volt on one terminal there.. if not as I remember Rolls had the one fuse only for coil, sorry I cant remember many many years ago now where the ballast is, what I can tell you it wont be inside the car, as these Ballasts run Hot!....there allways inside engine compartment...tucked away...but in a cool air flow place. hope of Help. Peter
Thanks Peter!
Yes, I know the ballasts, they're common on Jags etc. However, there is only one lead to the coil and one lead out to the distributor. My thought is two possible scenarios;
1. There's a ballast somewhere which I can't find. The lead from the starter goes up to the upper connector then leading to the coil. On the lower connector there's a 12v wire from the ignition, I assume. That ballast could be burnt.

2. I experienced a few years ago on a Silver Shadow some rust on the connectors inside the ignition lock. That might be the issue even on this car, the locks looks fairly similar?

Just a few ideas...

Cleaner

11 posts

73 months

Friday 12th July 2019
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Will run through the Test , first remove Distributor cap...ensure points are open...rotate engine to achive this, now with the Ignition on, you should have Full 12volt battery voltage....if not...stop there and there is the problem. The ballast must be found and see whats happening, you will have only 1 12v + wire on coil...this is correct. once the ballast is found you will see 1 of the terminals has full 12volt Ign on...the other terminal has 2 wires on....one goes to the Coil the other goes to the Starter. all what I write is for unmodified car, over years cars of that year was not uncommon to be put to normal 12volt coil [you cant use the original coil as there made to run on ONLY Ballast voltage].....the Boost of voltage when starter used done away with. If you look at your coil yes your see marked 12volt but a label used to be fixed to coil warning....with Ballast only.. seems the Ignition feed to ballast gone, just a thought also, wonder if the car has a non Rolls Imobilise been fitted..simple cut out switch hidden...that you have not been made aware of, cutting the 12volt.... because then any attempt to start car...yes if would Fire right up...but unable to keep running. previous owner may remember ??. best I can help . Peter.

Vilkenkarl

Original Poster:

4 posts

56 months

Thursday 18th July 2019
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Thanks for all inputs!
Connector on ballast was loose, now she runs like a dream !

jeyjey

220 posts

96 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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Complete service manuals (including wiring diagrams) can be found here:

http://rrtechnical.info/sz/05_sz.htm

j7ols

3 posts

204 months

Saturday 25th July 2020
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I know I've missed the anniversary of this thread but I've just inherited an '82 Spirit with exactly the same issue.
Unfortunately someone has butchered a lot of the wiring, including wiring to the coil.
It was running/idling but then just cut out.
Will only run if key held in start position.
Coil has 3 LT wires to it.
One has been taken from a local ign switched 12V empty relay socket. It goes to +ve on coil.
There is another wire to +ve on coil, this is sourced from the loom paired with another to the -ve on the coil.
I cannot find a ballast resistor anywhere. I'm tearing my hair out trying to figure this out.
I've tried 2 other new coils, with and without internal resistor. No change.
Can't be fuel as I can rev the engine if I hold the key in start.
Any help appreciated.

Peter-jforf

30 posts

44 months

Saturday 25th July 2020
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From EX Auto sparks, of 50 years now retired at 77.... ive wrote before as you see, but as you say the wiring seems to be Bad and "Got at" at some time, of course as Auto sparks would sort....but as your not I would suggest you re-wire the Ignition circuit. follow my instructions and will be fine....you know the Key held over...car runs / and revs. So first purchase a Ballast disconnect all old wiring from the coil tape / make safe..... , fit Ballast under bonnet on the fire wall, taking care its away from anything affected by heat, as they run "Hot"...I suggest you run a new Wire from the starter now [ yes that circuit is there but can you find it ??] so lets run new, on the starter you will see 2 small wires, disconnect one wire at a time....the wire that stops the starter working...Put this back...the other wire now not needed...snip make safe...now Test the other terminal on starter...use milti-meter on terminal...negative to earth...Positive on terminal...get someone to crank engine, you must see 7v to 9v on cranking with charged battery...ok...now run a wire from starter to your Ballast, connect to one terminal of ballast with one more wire..ok...that wire connects to Pos + on your Ballast [ only ] Coil...ok...now you need a good 12v supply...ideal you need to get behind ignition switch and find the 12v when Key turned to Ignition and still live on cranking....... not easy as ive worked on may RRs / Bentleys....you see coil must have its own supply and never affected by any problem of lighting faults / shorts etc etc stopping the Engine suddenly...possible danger on motor way... if you find it impossible to get behind Ign switch, get back to me , once wire on switch ...fit a simple line fuse holder...with 15amp Fuse be fine....run wire to the other terminal on Ballast, that's it...done. Try to use good wire say 28/012 size...not sure on mm size as im old school. hope of help... Peter