Running a Silver Shadow everyday
Discussion
Can anyone advise me about a crazy idea that has got into my head. I love Silver Shadows of the 65-69 era and note that they can be relatively affordable to purchase at circa £10k. Also at 5.17 metres long and 1.8 metres wide they are possibly the smallest Rolls Royces you can buy and thus not much more to manage than my current Jaguar X308.
My question is, could one stand up to 10-12k miles a year use and being parked on a private drive way outside ? I'm already used to big fuel bills (16.5mpg) and big running costs with the Jag, but could a 40 year old Roller be everyday reliable and would it just rot away if I left it outside ? Any guidance would be much appreciated. Cheers.
My question is, could one stand up to 10-12k miles a year use and being parked on a private drive way outside ? I'm already used to big fuel bills (16.5mpg) and big running costs with the Jag, but could a 40 year old Roller be everyday reliable and would it just rot away if I left it outside ? Any guidance would be much appreciated. Cheers.
No reason why not. Many were run as everyday cars when new, so why not now? Mechanically, they probably respond better to regular use than intermittent use anyway and if properly maintained in accordance witht the manufacturer's service schedule, the mechanical parts will last for many hundreds of thousand miles. That maintenance will not be cheap, however, and when parts do wear out, replacing them with ones of equivalent quality will be expensive (but not doing so will be a false economy). If you are going to leave it out in all weathers, the same will apply as to any steel-bodied car of monocoque construction: steel rusts if not adequately protected from moisture. Preventive maintenance and a regular programme of reactive maintenance will cover that, however, again at a cost. Running any Rolls is not cheap, but if you look after them properly, they will look after you.
Edited by Bluebottle911 on Sunday 24th February 20:38
How long is a piece of string? It all depends on how many miles you do and the condition of the car when you buy it. And there is a bit more to preventative maintenance than washing!
In five years and 15,000 miles I have spent around £21,500 (that's everything, including tax and insurance)on my Turbo R, which is not much more than a souped up Shadow, when all is said and done. And another £4K on fuel (a Shadow would have used about 30% more). By the time you include depreciation, that's £2.13 a mile or £17.81 a day. A bit of a bargain really.
In five years and 15,000 miles I have spent around £21,500 (that's everything, including tax and insurance)on my Turbo R, which is not much more than a souped up Shadow, when all is said and done. And another £4K on fuel (a Shadow would have used about 30% more). By the time you include depreciation, that's £2.13 a mile or £17.81 a day. A bit of a bargain really.
Edited by Bluebottle911 on Tuesday 26th February 15:18
Can I offer two comments:-
1. If you use it as an every day hack in my opinion you will enjoy the experience less, does that not defeat the object of the exercise.
2. I don't think it is a good idea for any car, particularly one of quality and an older one, in the long term to be left outside.I agree that the car benefits from regular use, but not from regular abuse, and imho it is bound to deteriorate in lots of small ways. Unlike a modern banger, treated well its also an appreciating asset, and you are going to put this at risk.
Because it may cost £8k, it doesn't mean that it's an £8k car.
In no way would I want to discourage you, but personally I think its wasted as an every day car. I get dismayed to hear of guys who buy old Spirits and keep cement mixers and stuff in the boot, thinking its practical.
1. If you use it as an every day hack in my opinion you will enjoy the experience less, does that not defeat the object of the exercise.
2. I don't think it is a good idea for any car, particularly one of quality and an older one, in the long term to be left outside.I agree that the car benefits from regular use, but not from regular abuse, and imho it is bound to deteriorate in lots of small ways. Unlike a modern banger, treated well its also an appreciating asset, and you are going to put this at risk.
Because it may cost £8k, it doesn't mean that it's an £8k car.
In no way would I want to discourage you, but personally I think its wasted as an every day car. I get dismayed to hear of guys who buy old Spirits and keep cement mixers and stuff in the boot, thinking its practical.
Edited by cardigankid on Monday 25th February 19:11
I think it's a fantastic idea, and one I'm considering myself as well! My circumstances are very similar, as I'm looking for one to use 2-3 days a week (alternating with the Elise) and a daily commute of around 12 miles each way. The car would have to live on the driveway (at least some of the time, anyway). In fact, I've only just missed out one this one to a quicker buyer!
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C36190
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C36190
Edited by atomicpunk on Thursday 28th February 14:41
Edited by atomicpunk on Thursday 28th February 14:42
My advice is "Go for it"!
BUT make sure you get a good one to start with AND budget to keep it that way: if you let one of these cars go, you'll be at the bottom of a very slippery slope before you can say "service history". Make sure it has been regularly serviced by a main agent or a reputable specialist, get it checked out by someone who knows what he is looking for, and find a good specialist to service it for you (then take it to him every six moths).
Good luck!
BUT make sure you get a good one to start with AND budget to keep it that way: if you let one of these cars go, you'll be at the bottom of a very slippery slope before you can say "service history". Make sure it has been regularly serviced by a main agent or a reputable specialist, get it checked out by someone who knows what he is looking for, and find a good specialist to service it for you (then take it to him every six moths).
Good luck!
Some relatively close to home experience:
My father ran a 1976 Bentley T Series from 1991 until 2003. It was insured on a classic policy and he drove it between 5-6,000 miles per year. By the time he got rid of it (he traded it against another Bentley), it had nigh on 270,000 miles on the clock. That said, it was in need of a reconditioned engine (or at least a new bottom end), and a heck of a lot of bodywork, not to mention the interior needing a damn good spruce up.
He had it serviced at a local specialist, and it cost between 1-2K per year to keep going. With the mileage and age, things will inevitably fail - his had a new PAS pump, air con condensor and compressor, a new alternator and a new starter during the time he had it.
The bodywork is the cars weak point - bear in mind that back in the day anti rust treatments were very much in their infancy, and so tin worm is a constant issue. Also, the bodywork has some weak points that are never truly fixable - the wheel arches for example are made of double skin steel, so in time water gets between the layers and rust bubbles appear. If you find a Shadow or T series with clean wheel arches, chances are it has had work done! The boot and bonnet (and doors, IIRC?) are aluminium, but are still prone to oxidation / bubbling.
Dad always averaged about 18-20 on a run, never any more. Its a big, lazy engine breathing through massive SU carbs, so it will like a drink. The bottom end is good for probably 200K, then it needs work - expensive work.
Please don't think I'm trying to put you off - far from it. I want you to know what you are letting yourself in for!
The Shadow / T2 brought firmer suspension, better aircon (way better, actually) and rack and pinion steering (dads car had recirculating ball so always felt rather lifeless). The rack is much better in feel.
Best of luck.
My father ran a 1976 Bentley T Series from 1991 until 2003. It was insured on a classic policy and he drove it between 5-6,000 miles per year. By the time he got rid of it (he traded it against another Bentley), it had nigh on 270,000 miles on the clock. That said, it was in need of a reconditioned engine (or at least a new bottom end), and a heck of a lot of bodywork, not to mention the interior needing a damn good spruce up.
He had it serviced at a local specialist, and it cost between 1-2K per year to keep going. With the mileage and age, things will inevitably fail - his had a new PAS pump, air con condensor and compressor, a new alternator and a new starter during the time he had it.
The bodywork is the cars weak point - bear in mind that back in the day anti rust treatments were very much in their infancy, and so tin worm is a constant issue. Also, the bodywork has some weak points that are never truly fixable - the wheel arches for example are made of double skin steel, so in time water gets between the layers and rust bubbles appear. If you find a Shadow or T series with clean wheel arches, chances are it has had work done! The boot and bonnet (and doors, IIRC?) are aluminium, but are still prone to oxidation / bubbling.
Dad always averaged about 18-20 on a run, never any more. Its a big, lazy engine breathing through massive SU carbs, so it will like a drink. The bottom end is good for probably 200K, then it needs work - expensive work.
Please don't think I'm trying to put you off - far from it. I want you to know what you are letting yourself in for!
The Shadow / T2 brought firmer suspension, better aircon (way better, actually) and rack and pinion steering (dads car had recirculating ball so always felt rather lifeless). The rack is much better in feel.
Best of luck.
To give you an idea..........customer of mine recently bought a Shadow 2 which had been stood a few years, paid a "bargain " £4K for it........it needed
6 Brake Caliper Recons
4 Brake Discs
Pads all round including handbrake pads
Full Exhaust
FULL service
Various electrical bits and bobs
Sort out bodywork
£4K Rolls is now a £10k Rolls..............as said buy the very best you can afford, make sure its been serviced regulary by a recognised specialist, and have it insppected by a marque expert.
Good Luck
I think you could go either way on this.
Buy a really good car, and budget on around £2000 - £4000 per year in terms of proper servicing and maintenance, excluding fuel, VEL, insurance etc.
Or you could buy a cheap neglected car, and continue to neglect it.
Either option can work very well, it's the middle ground that can be the danger zone, IMO.
Buy a really good car, and budget on around £2000 - £4000 per year in terms of proper servicing and maintenance, excluding fuel, VEL, insurance etc.
Or you could buy a cheap neglected car, and continue to neglect it.
Either option can work very well, it's the middle ground that can be the danger zone, IMO.
Ooooh this is tempting me. Someone was advertising a Shadow 1 on the small ads at work for £7000 the other week, and I've now got a new job which means only a 25 mile a day round trip, AND I've a classic Mini to use maybe half the week.
Mrs XXPLOD would absolutely kill me though, although she has found she likes autos....
Mrs XXPLOD would absolutely kill me though, although she has found she likes autos....
tali1 said:
Personally i'd go for a Spirit everytime
I think Shadow prices have long since bottomed out, stabilised, and started to even rise a touch. Spirits are still bottoming out, and can be even cheaper than Shadows. I've seen some pretty decent Spirits at £3000-£5000. As ever, price/condition can be inconsistent, you need to get lucky for a good buy.Rough to average Turbo R's get ever cheaper at the £6K-£8K mark, but they tend to be hungrier and costlier to run for everything than the more sedate models.
Edited by Balmoral Green on Thursday 28th February 20:14
xxplod said:
Ooooh this is tempting me. Someone was advertising a Shadow 1 on the small ads at work for £7000 the other week, and I've now got a new job which means only a 25 mile a day round trip, AND I've a classic Mini to use maybe half the week.
Mrs XXPLOD would absolutely kill me though, although she has found she likes autos....
When Mrs XXPlod finds that travelling in the Roller is a totally different experience to travelling in your classic Mini, I think you'll find that she will get a lot more enthusiastic. She is probably thinking, not another uncomfortable cold noisy dirty bloody classic car. If she sat in a Spirit or a Shadow she would think differently.Mrs XXPLOD would absolutely kill me though, although she has found she likes autos....
Balmoral Green said:
Mrs BG hates my car. All she can see is twenties and fifties being ripped to shreds before her very eyes, the pieces fluttering downwards to the floor.
Just remind her who earned those notes!Mrs. Blubottle likes going out in mine - especially if anyone she knows happens to see her in it!
atomicpunk said:
I think it's a fantastic idea, and one I'm considering myself as well! My circumstances are very similar, as I'm looking for one to use 2-3 days a week (alternating with the Elise) and a daily commute of around 12 miles each way. The car would have to live on the driveway (at least some of the time, anyway). In fact, I've only just missed out one this one to a quicker buyer!
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C36190
Like your style, I've always wanted an Elise too as a 2nd car. What a perfect compliment to Silver Shadow !http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C36190
Edited by atomicpunk on Thursday 28th February 14:41
Edited by atomicpunk on Thursday 28th February 14:42
xxplod said:
Ooooh this is tempting me. Someone was advertising a Shadow 1 on the small ads at work for £7000 the other week, and I've now got a new job which means only a 25 mile a day round trip, AND I've a classic Mini to use maybe half the week.
Mrs XXPLOD would absolutely kill me though, although she has found she likes autos....
As it happens my other car is also a Mini a 1971 1000 totally unmodified, right down to the cross ply tyres ! Like my comment regarding the Elise, I think running a 60s-70s Mini and Rolls Royce together is a very appealing combination - 2 more different driving experiences there can't be !Mrs XXPLOD would absolutely kill me though, although she has found she likes autos....
I guess the real madness is the bread & butter customer of the retail motor industry. The private buyer who is on a three year change cycle, like my in-laws. They buy a new mid-range mid-size sensible white goods car for around £15,000, and they trade it in three years later and get around one third back for it, and they go again, and again. The perfectly normal depreciation suffered each year by your average everyday new car driver is total madness compared to the modest costs of running a old Rolls Royce or Bentley as a daily driver. So maybe not such a bad idea after all.
Balmoral Green said:
I guess the real madness is the bread & butter customer of the retail motor industry. The private buyer who is on a three year change cycle, like my in-laws. They buy a new mid-range mid-size sensible white goods car for around £15,000, and they trade it in three years later and get around one third back for it, and they go again, and again. The perfectly normal depreciation suffered each year by your average everyday new car driver is total madness compared to the modest costs of running a old Rolls Royce or Bentley as a daily driver. So maybe not such a bad idea after all.
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to use mine as a daily driver, alternating with my 911 (like our friend with te Elise). There are, however, two problems:1. Size: there are so many palces you just can't easily access with a car the size of an R-R or Bentley and fitting into parking spaces is often a nightmare.
2. Envy: sad to say, they do excite the wrong reaction in a lot of people. Many people take offence because they think you are showing off your wealth / trying to put them down. It is also an obvious target for vandal damage from silly, jealous people. And sometimes I have to admit that I feel guilty about making nice people who have to make do with a secondhand Ford / Rover / etc. (most of my staff, for example), feel jealous.
The E-class estate / 911 / CLK convertible combination that I use on a daily basis, is a much more practical proposition, so the Bentley tends not to go out a lot.
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