modded cooper s R53 vs clio sport for track car
Discussion
Hi All.
After some advice. preferably from people with track /fast rd experience of the above cars.
Me and a few mates regularly do track days and we are getting a little more serious now.
I currently run a 172 Clio for my track car.
Its spec is:
some minor lightening.
Pipercross air filter.
De cat system.
polybushes.
Lowered suspension.
Bluestuff pads
R888 tyres.
Its handling is spot on and the brakes are cracking.
Its served well for several years and round tight tracks like Castle Coombe not much sticks with it despite its lowish power, however I am after something a little quicker as I have reached its limits, needing more power and on the longer racks such as Spa and the Ring its top end gearing lets it down.
I would stick with it for another year or two but 2 of the guys that are normally about equal with me have just upgraded their cars to a Clio 182 with turbo conversion running 245 bhp and an MR2 mk3 with the vvti engine fitted running 200 bhp.
I am going to be left behind so looking for something quicker than my clio but on a budget.
My budget is £3000 give or take so cars like focus st etc are too much.
SO.....
I have been offered a cooper S with a few mods for a decent price and am toying with giving it a go.
Its running around 220bhp with the following mods:
coilovers
17% pulley
Ind kit.
Miltek exhaust
Uprated intercooler.
remap.
not sure on injectors etc and I will be lightening a little and uprating the brakes and fitting R888 tyres.
I know the mini will handle well but does anyone have any idea roughly how quick the mini will be in comparison to my 172 or the clio turbo/MR2
Thanks all.
Steve
After some advice. preferably from people with track /fast rd experience of the above cars.
Me and a few mates regularly do track days and we are getting a little more serious now.
I currently run a 172 Clio for my track car.
Its spec is:
some minor lightening.
Pipercross air filter.
De cat system.
polybushes.
Lowered suspension.
Bluestuff pads
R888 tyres.
Its handling is spot on and the brakes are cracking.
Its served well for several years and round tight tracks like Castle Coombe not much sticks with it despite its lowish power, however I am after something a little quicker as I have reached its limits, needing more power and on the longer racks such as Spa and the Ring its top end gearing lets it down.
I would stick with it for another year or two but 2 of the guys that are normally about equal with me have just upgraded their cars to a Clio 182 with turbo conversion running 245 bhp and an MR2 mk3 with the vvti engine fitted running 200 bhp.
I am going to be left behind so looking for something quicker than my clio but on a budget.
My budget is £3000 give or take so cars like focus st etc are too much.
SO.....
I have been offered a cooper S with a few mods for a decent price and am toying with giving it a go.
Its running around 220bhp with the following mods:
coilovers
17% pulley
Ind kit.
Miltek exhaust
Uprated intercooler.
remap.
not sure on injectors etc and I will be lightening a little and uprating the brakes and fitting R888 tyres.
I know the mini will handle well but does anyone have any idea roughly how quick the mini will be in comparison to my 172 or the clio turbo/MR2
Thanks all.
Steve
I can't comment on the R53 vs Clio query, though Carsorbikes would be a useful forum member to ask about the R53 as I think from his posts he's well versed in them.
On the topic of tyres/brakes, my R56 has Yoko AD08Rs and Ferrodo DS2500s pads with racing fluid (no uprated discs etc.) & that setup has served me well for my fast road/occasional track use (including Spa) & I'm running more power than the car you're looking at. As soon as you get into uprating injectors you'll be remapping the car & your budget creep starts seriously then!
On the topic of tyres/brakes, my R56 has Yoko AD08Rs and Ferrodo DS2500s pads with racing fluid (no uprated discs etc.) & that setup has served me well for my fast road/occasional track use (including Spa) & I'm running more power than the car you're looking at. As soon as you get into uprating injectors you'll be remapping the car & your budget creep starts seriously then!
Thanks mate.
Good to know.
Already looking at injectors and map lol.
I tried the yokos and ns2r but for me , in several different cars the r888 has always been best on the dry so despite the extra cost I made the desision to only go with them for now.
I have heard good things about the ds2500 brakes so may go that way.
Thanks
Good to know.
Already looking at injectors and map lol.
I tried the yokos and ns2r but for me , in several different cars the r888 has always been best on the dry so despite the extra cost I made the desision to only go with them for now.
I have heard good things about the ds2500 brakes so may go that way.
Thanks
steve-5snwi said:
Could you not spend the money on a turbo ? Sometimes its not about speed but carrying speed so is there any way you could put the money towards making the clio faster ?
Not an option.This is supposed to be a cheap toy (£3000 max) I already have £2500 in the clio and a turbo kit would be load more on top,
The Sale of the clio will be funding the mini.
Thanks.
hyperblue said:
What kind of speeds are you reaching in the Clio?
In my experience the Mini is limited by its poor aerodynamics at higher speeds - the windscreen is almost vertical.
That said, both of my R53's were a hoot to drive on track, frequently surprised some 'faster' cars and I miss them!
Maxing out on the ring around 130MPH.In my experience the Mini is limited by its poor aerodynamics at higher speeds - the windscreen is almost vertical.
That said, both of my R53's were a hoot to drive on track, frequently surprised some 'faster' cars and I miss them!
The problem on shorter tracks is that through the twistys i'm quicker than BMW's and Porsches, gaining and overtaking etc but then on the straights they are gone. Its disheartening as the lack of speed on straights undoes all the good work done through the corners.
Forking out for a M3, 911 or Caterham is not an option as this is just meant to be cheap fun and semi expendable if it all goes wrong.
If it's straight-line speed you're after, the Mini isn't great - I vmax'd mine in Germany and it took ages to increase from 130ish due to the brick-like aero.
The Mini would be very similar to the Clio I suspect in that you'll be quick in the corners but relatively slower on the straights
The Mini would be very similar to the Clio I suspect in that you'll be quick in the corners but relatively slower on the straights
steve-5snwi said:
Isn't that always going to be the case though, unless you buy an M3, straight line speed while higher in the Mini still isn't going to match an M3. You would probably be better off looking for an early R56 Cooper S, but your budget isn't going to go far.
The straight line speed differential is noticeable between an R53 and R56 as I proved with friends who've got R53s when we did Bedford & I simply breezed past them in my R56 which has a lot less mods on it than their cars.MrC986 said:
The straight line speed differential is noticeable between an R53 and R56 as I proved with friends who've got R53s when we did Bedford & I simply breezed past them in my R56 which has a lot less mods on it than their cars.
Hmm food for thought ref the R56.There are a few cheapies coming up.
I'm phoning 1320 this morn for a chat so see what happens.
Thanks
£3000 isn't going to close the gap to any M3/Porsche, you're just spending money swapping like for like on a Mini.
Yes, it's frustrating to be passed on the straight, but anybody can do that by spending money.
My recommendation is to keep the 172 as originally planned.
Either keep saving for a big step up, or use the money to go further afield (judging by the posts on PH last year, the French hillclimb circuit looks interesting).
Yes, it's frustrating to be passed on the straight, but anybody can do that by spending money.
My recommendation is to keep the 172 as originally planned.
Either keep saving for a big step up, or use the money to go further afield (judging by the posts on PH last year, the French hillclimb circuit looks interesting).
The giant killing debate!
I hear this all the time, the answer is "yes, but anybody can be fast in the corners in an over-tyred, super stiff front wheel driver." Keeping up in the Twistys in the mini is probably the least demanding skill of all my track day involvement.
I track both my Corvette and my R53 cooper and they are different beasts entirely. No reflection on anyone here - just my 2p.
I'm guilty of it myself, I enjoy sticking with the big boys in the bends but seriously, it's not cause i'm ace and then somehow pap in the Vette, it's just that low power, FWD cars on sticky rubber are a piece of piss to be fast in and very forgiving.
Ask yourself who it is you are wishing to compete with? It sounds to me like you are over the 'enjoying driving faster than on the road' stage like I was quite early on. I dilemma about putting coilovers, drysump, camber kit and R888 on the vette and being legitimately very fast (whilst ruining it on the road) but to be honest, that 6k investment would be better on a season or two of cheap sprint racing/track day trophy.
I see the attraction with giant killing but I wouldn't be wasting my money on it.
Enjoy the clio, they are superb, my boy has a 197 at age 20 and I am very genuinely jealous of it - but don't tell him! Wrong wheel drive etc etc...
Like another poster said, you are never gonna compete with M3's and porkers with that budget but I bet you're having way more fun.
I hear this all the time, the answer is "yes, but anybody can be fast in the corners in an over-tyred, super stiff front wheel driver." Keeping up in the Twistys in the mini is probably the least demanding skill of all my track day involvement.
I track both my Corvette and my R53 cooper and they are different beasts entirely. No reflection on anyone here - just my 2p.
I'm guilty of it myself, I enjoy sticking with the big boys in the bends but seriously, it's not cause i'm ace and then somehow pap in the Vette, it's just that low power, FWD cars on sticky rubber are a piece of piss to be fast in and very forgiving.
Ask yourself who it is you are wishing to compete with? It sounds to me like you are over the 'enjoying driving faster than on the road' stage like I was quite early on. I dilemma about putting coilovers, drysump, camber kit and R888 on the vette and being legitimately very fast (whilst ruining it on the road) but to be honest, that 6k investment would be better on a season or two of cheap sprint racing/track day trophy.
I see the attraction with giant killing but I wouldn't be wasting my money on it.
Enjoy the clio, they are superb, my boy has a 197 at age 20 and I am very genuinely jealous of it - but don't tell him! Wrong wheel drive etc etc...
Like another poster said, you are never gonna compete with M3's and porkers with that budget but I bet you're having way more fun.
Edited by MrNoisy on Tuesday 20th February 13:39
MrNoisy said:
The giant killing debate!
I hear this all the time, the answer is "yes, but anybody can be fast in the corners in an over-tyred, super stiff front wheel driver." Keeping up in the Twistys in the mini is probably the least demanding skill of all my track day involvement.
I track both my Corvette and my R53 cooper and they are different beasts entirely. No reflection on anyone here - just my 2p.
I'm guilty of it myself, I enjoy sticking with the big boys in the bends but seriously, it's not cause i'm ace and then somehow pap in the Vette, it's just that low power, FWD cars on sticky rubber are a piece of piss to be fast in and very forgiving.
Ask yourself who it is you are wishing to compete with? It sounds to me like you are over the 'enjoying driving faster than on the road' stage like I was quite early on. I dilemma about putting coilovers, drysump, camber kit and R888 on the vette and being legitimately very fast (whilst ruining it on the road) but to be honest, that 6k investment would be better on a season or two of cheap sprint racing/track day trophy.
I see the attraction with giant killing but I wouldn't be wasting my money on it.
Enjoy the clio, they are superb, my boy has a 197 at age 20 and I am very genuinely jealous of it - but don't tell him! Wrong wheel drive etc etc...
Like another poster said, you are never gonna compete with M3's and porkers with that budget but I bet you're having way more fun.
As I said I am after something to compete with my mates cars.I hear this all the time, the answer is "yes, but anybody can be fast in the corners in an over-tyred, super stiff front wheel driver." Keeping up in the Twistys in the mini is probably the least demanding skill of all my track day involvement.
I track both my Corvette and my R53 cooper and they are different beasts entirely. No reflection on anyone here - just my 2p.
I'm guilty of it myself, I enjoy sticking with the big boys in the bends but seriously, it's not cause i'm ace and then somehow pap in the Vette, it's just that low power, FWD cars on sticky rubber are a piece of piss to be fast in and very forgiving.
Ask yourself who it is you are wishing to compete with? It sounds to me like you are over the 'enjoying driving faster than on the road' stage like I was quite early on. I dilemma about putting coilovers, drysump, camber kit and R888 on the vette and being legitimately very fast (whilst ruining it on the road) but to be honest, that 6k investment would be better on a season or two of cheap sprint racing/track day trophy.
I see the attraction with giant killing but I wouldn't be wasting my money on it.
Enjoy the clio, they are superb, my boy has a 197 at age 20 and I am very genuinely jealous of it - but don't tell him! Wrong wheel drive etc etc...
Like another poster said, you are never gonna compete with M3's and porkers with that budget but I bet you're having way more fun.
Edited by MrNoisy on Tuesday 20th February 13:39
Not too fussed about other people but was just mentioning the frustration of Having a slower car that I have outgrown.
I have had all manor of fast track and road cars (used to own a import and tuning company) and have spent loads of money on cars before including a very good track Car but that’s not what this post was about.
It’s about having a cheap car that won’t make me cry if it gets binned or blows up. Lol
Not exactly expendable but you get the idea.
Yes the Clio is perfect for that, it’s just that I wondered if there was something a little quicker for the same sort of budget and several people have rated the cooper s.
Other cars on the track are relative as it depends on the driver and set up.
Thank you all for your advise.
I think I’m going to buy a modded Cooper s I have been offered and give it a go.
If it’s not as good as the Clio then I will sell it and keep the Clio.
I’ll post up how it gets on.
Thanks all
Edited by Scarface1 on Tuesday 20th February 15:30
Fair enough mate, apologies if I misunderstood! Conflated a few posts as skim reading...
Having reread OP it seems clear now. To answer the question direct I suspect your proposed mini would split your two mates down the middle.
If I were you and could tune/had experience and likely contacts in that world i'd be putting a turbo on your original car and keeping costs down as much as possible where possible.
I can totally understand if the three of you are going together how running a few seconds light would be frustrating.
I love the R53 but I just don't think it has the edge in comparative state of tune with it's French friends. But like you say, if it's cheap then why the hell not!
Having reread OP it seems clear now. To answer the question direct I suspect your proposed mini would split your two mates down the middle.
If I were you and could tune/had experience and likely contacts in that world i'd be putting a turbo on your original car and keeping costs down as much as possible where possible.
I can totally understand if the three of you are going together how running a few seconds light would be frustrating.
I love the R53 but I just don't think it has the edge in comparative state of tune with it's French friends. But like you say, if it's cheap then why the hell not!
Thanks all for all your views, much appreciated.
I did toy with Turboing my clio but I think my mate will struggle with grip so its the cost of the engine and turbo conversion, uprated clutch etc, and an LSD so suddenly i would be well deep in the clio.I would have to add a few K on top of what I already have in the clio.
I've been doing quite a bit of research and chatting to 1320 and Sussex race and road and am actually quite looking forward to playing with a new toy now.
Am going to see this MCS at the weekend abd have a few more mods planned to up its power some more and will obviously put it on a diet.
I will keep you posted and again thanks.
S
I did toy with Turboing my clio but I think my mate will struggle with grip so its the cost of the engine and turbo conversion, uprated clutch etc, and an LSD so suddenly i would be well deep in the clio.I would have to add a few K on top of what I already have in the clio.
I've been doing quite a bit of research and chatting to 1320 and Sussex race and road and am actually quite looking forward to playing with a new toy now.
Am going to see this MCS at the weekend abd have a few more mods planned to up its power some more and will obviously put it on a diet.
I will keep you posted and again thanks.
S
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