The PH Gun Cabinet - Shooting Matters
Discussion
GPs are like any other professional business (solicitors, say) and will charge for letters that aren't paid for by the NHS (see also medicals for HGV licences etc). You could argue that the Police need the info so should stump up for the letter, but they would just charge everyone an extra £30 (or whatever) just in case they need to pay the GP for a report.
And then there's some politics where the BiB write to the GP, and take a lack of letter as tacit approval. So some GPs have taken to writing back to the BiB to say they won't reply if they haven't been paid so don't assume the lack of a letter means anything.
And then there's some politics where the BiB write to the GP, and take a lack of letter as tacit approval. So some GPs have taken to writing back to the BiB to say they won't reply if they haven't been paid so don't assume the lack of a letter means anything.
I think you may have heard that Police would pay for a formal GP report, which they will, but these letters they are asked to write when an FAC or SGC is granted are a 'general report' and not funded, so the BMA tells GPs to either refuse to write the letter or write it and charge a fee at their discretion.
The BMA said:
In certain targeted situations the police may ask for a full formal report. There is agreement that police funding is required for this formal report. There is also agreement between the BMA and Home Office that the charging of a fee may be appropriate for the initial general report but no agreement has been reached regarding the funding of this.
Edited by FurtiveFreddy on Thursday 26th October 15:21
I went on my first live shoot recently - mostly pheasant and some partridge. I really enjoyed the day and will do it again, but I was wondering if any more experienced shooters could give me some feedback on the setup, to let me know if my experience was "normal"?
8 of us paid for a 100 bird driven day. We didn't draw pegs, we were just placed on the line on each drive based on chance really. First drive was a bust - not a single bird was flushed. Next 2 drives weren't great - some pegs got some shots away but most of us got little action. Last drive before lunch was great - for 2 pegs. At lunch we had 36 birds in the bag. Rest of us watched. Final drives after lunch got a bit of action for around half the pegs.
Final tally was 77 birds from 306 shots. I know that a few of us let loose quite a few shells at "ultra sporting" targets just to have a pop at something on some of the drives. Personally, I got unlucky with my pegs and on 4 of them didn't have a sporting shot present itself.
Here's the thing. We were behind on the bag all day, and it's not because we were poor shots. What presented got bagged. We were taken to some of the smaller drives on the estate, and I think that we should have been taken on some bigger/better drives for the last couple to help us get the bag. Absolutely no comment or apology was made for the lack of birds. The broker who organised the day seemed very relaxed about it and reminded us to "look after the gamekeeper" to the tune of a £30 tip.
So, shooting PH crew, is this normal and were we just unlucky? Personally I feel that given the scarcity of birds, the gamekeeper & broker should have (a) made sure we had a chance to get the bag and (b) done what they could to give everyone some decent pegs. As it was, 3 shooters got most of the birds and 2 of us hardly got a shot off all day. I let go fewer than a box of cartridges.
If this is normal and just an unlucky day that happens from time to time, I'll happily wind in my neck and take it on the chin, but if it's a poor show then I'll make sure I do my next shoot with a different organiser & venue.
8 of us paid for a 100 bird driven day. We didn't draw pegs, we were just placed on the line on each drive based on chance really. First drive was a bust - not a single bird was flushed. Next 2 drives weren't great - some pegs got some shots away but most of us got little action. Last drive before lunch was great - for 2 pegs. At lunch we had 36 birds in the bag. Rest of us watched. Final drives after lunch got a bit of action for around half the pegs.
Final tally was 77 birds from 306 shots. I know that a few of us let loose quite a few shells at "ultra sporting" targets just to have a pop at something on some of the drives. Personally, I got unlucky with my pegs and on 4 of them didn't have a sporting shot present itself.
Here's the thing. We were behind on the bag all day, and it's not because we were poor shots. What presented got bagged. We were taken to some of the smaller drives on the estate, and I think that we should have been taken on some bigger/better drives for the last couple to help us get the bag. Absolutely no comment or apology was made for the lack of birds. The broker who organised the day seemed very relaxed about it and reminded us to "look after the gamekeeper" to the tune of a £30 tip.
So, shooting PH crew, is this normal and were we just unlucky? Personally I feel that given the scarcity of birds, the gamekeeper & broker should have (a) made sure we had a chance to get the bag and (b) done what they could to give everyone some decent pegs. As it was, 3 shooters got most of the birds and 2 of us hardly got a shot off all day. I let go fewer than a box of cartridges.
If this is normal and just an unlucky day that happens from time to time, I'll happily wind in my neck and take it on the chin, but if it's a poor show then I'll make sure I do my next shoot with a different organiser & venue.
PhilboSE said:
I went on my first live shoot recently - mostly pheasant and some partridge. I really enjoyed the day and will do it again, but I was wondering if any more experienced shooters could give me some feedback on the setup, to let me know if my experience was "normal"?
8 of us paid for a 100 bird driven day. We didn't draw pegs, we were just placed on the line on each drive based on chance really. First drive was a bust - not a single bird was flushed. Next 2 drives weren't great - some pegs got some shots away but most of us got little action. Last drive before lunch was great - for 2 pegs. At lunch we had 36 birds in the bag. Rest of us watched. Final drives after lunch got a bit of action for around half the pegs.
Final tally was 77 birds from 306 shots. I know that a few of us let loose quite a few shells at "ultra sporting" targets just to have a pop at something on some of the drives. Personally, I got unlucky with my pegs and on 4 of them didn't have a sporting shot present itself.
Here's the thing. We were behind on the bag all day, and it's not because we were poor shots. What presented got bagged. We were taken to some of the smaller drives on the estate, and I think that we should have been taken on some bigger/better drives for the last couple to help us get the bag. Absolutely no comment or apology was made for the lack of birds. The broker who organised the day seemed very relaxed about it and reminded us to "look after the gamekeeper" to the tune of a £30 tip.
So, shooting PH crew, is this normal and were we just unlucky? Personally I feel that given the scarcity of birds, the gamekeeper & broker should have (a) made sure we had a chance to get the bag and (b) done what they could to give everyone some decent pegs. As it was, 3 shooters got most of the birds and 2 of us hardly got a shot off all day. I let go fewer than a box of cartridges.
If this is normal and just an unlucky day that happens from time to time, I'll happily wind in my neck and take it on the chin, but if it's a poor show then I'll make sure I do my next shoot with a different organiser & venue.
To me that sounds fairly irregular. 8 of us paid for a 100 bird driven day. We didn't draw pegs, we were just placed on the line on each drive based on chance really. First drive was a bust - not a single bird was flushed. Next 2 drives weren't great - some pegs got some shots away but most of us got little action. Last drive before lunch was great - for 2 pegs. At lunch we had 36 birds in the bag. Rest of us watched. Final drives after lunch got a bit of action for around half the pegs.
Final tally was 77 birds from 306 shots. I know that a few of us let loose quite a few shells at "ultra sporting" targets just to have a pop at something on some of the drives. Personally, I got unlucky with my pegs and on 4 of them didn't have a sporting shot present itself.
Here's the thing. We were behind on the bag all day, and it's not because we were poor shots. What presented got bagged. We were taken to some of the smaller drives on the estate, and I think that we should have been taken on some bigger/better drives for the last couple to help us get the bag. Absolutely no comment or apology was made for the lack of birds. The broker who organised the day seemed very relaxed about it and reminded us to "look after the gamekeeper" to the tune of a £30 tip.
So, shooting PH crew, is this normal and were we just unlucky? Personally I feel that given the scarcity of birds, the gamekeeper & broker should have (a) made sure we had a chance to get the bag and (b) done what they could to give everyone some decent pegs. As it was, 3 shooters got most of the birds and 2 of us hardly got a shot off all day. I let go fewer than a box of cartridges.
If this is normal and just an unlucky day that happens from time to time, I'll happily wind in my neck and take it on the chin, but if it's a poor show then I'll make sure I do my next shoot with a different organiser & venue.
Always draw pegs.
Were the other guns all known to each other?
How much was the day?
z4RRSchris said:
generally you pay for what you get. i have been on a few days that sound like the above with sub 100 birds and i now dont bother.
150/250/300 bird days for me
I agree - it all depends how much you paid for that day.150/250/300 bird days for me
I've been on some 300 bird days and I wouldn't describe them as a gore fest. Just a lot of birds - most very sporting and if there are some low flyers the expectation would be for the guns to leave the,
£450 per peg for the day. Included a pub (sandwich) lunch + 1 pint, and a mid morning plastic cup of Cava. 3 beaters, gamekeeper and 3 other keepers on the day.
The guns were all "friends of friends", so there was one chap who was the common link and got the 8 guns together. 3 of us were new to game shooting, the other 5 were experienced.
This was on a 5400 acre estate where they do shoots nearly every day in season, so there shouldn't be a lack of birds; I just think they took us to some really poor drives rather than their better ones. They did 600 birds the previous day...
The guns were all "friends of friends", so there was one chap who was the common link and got the 8 guns together. 3 of us were new to game shooting, the other 5 were experienced.
This was on a 5400 acre estate where they do shoots nearly every day in season, so there shouldn't be a lack of birds; I just think they took us to some really poor drives rather than their better ones. They did 600 birds the previous day...
I occasionally beat for a local shoot, in fact I had taken today off work especially to beat as they shoot on Fridays. Unfortunately, I am sat at home with a dose of Norovirus, great, it's a lovely day outside, holiday booked especially but I'm stuck here not venturing too far from a toilet.
PhilboSE said:
£450 per peg for the day. Included a pub (sandwich) lunch + 1 pint, and a mid morning plastic cup of Cava. 3 beaters, gamekeeper and 3 other keepers on the day.
The guns were all "friends of friends", so there was one chap who was the common link and got the 8 guns together. 3 of us were new to game shooting, the other 5 were experienced.
This was on a 5400 acre estate where they do shoots nearly every day in season, so there shouldn't be a lack of birds; I just think they took us to some really poor drives rather than their better ones. They did 600 birds the previous day...
So expected bag was £36 a bird and you paid £46 a bird.The guns were all "friends of friends", so there was one chap who was the common link and got the 8 guns together. 3 of us were new to game shooting, the other 5 were experienced.
This was on a 5400 acre estate where they do shoots nearly every day in season, so there shouldn't be a lack of birds; I just think they took us to some really poor drives rather than their better ones. They did 600 birds the previous day...
That is expensive shooting.
I would want a reduction on the cost of the day, or another day reduced if the birds were any good.
I have days in Norfolk unlimited bags over 10 guns for £15 a bird (bag dependent 475 last time on the partridge) with Food (breakfast, elevenses and meal after the shoot) drinks Gun bus.
I have a couple of spare pegs on Dec 2nd if you want a peg at £795
desolate said:
Jem0911 said:
So expected bag was £36 a bird and you paid £46 a bird.
That is expensive shooting.
I agree.That is expensive shooting.
46 quid a bird is something you would expect on a high level estate with really interesting shooting (and plenty of it) as well as proper snacks, drinks and a meal.
I am lucky and get to shoot one of the best estates in the country for £39 a bird, that includes amazing birds amazing food on the day.
The lodge is £250 per person per night though....................
Not drawing pegs is bad form.
The only exception should be if someone has poor mobility, then you might rig/swap a couple of the pegs.
It does sound very dear.
I have booked a 150 bird day (but we always go over and there are no "overage charges") for £450 a gun - £27 a bird.
I'm also have a bigger 250 day where I believe it is £36 a bird.
Both are in Essex, so a bit flat, but good quality birds.
In general though, some days it just doesn't happen and you don't get the bag.
If you buy a day it's normal to have some sort of loose contract, charges if you go over, failing to get a cetain shot ration etc.
Your shot to kill ratio is 3.97/1.
Unless they were very testing birds then most people aim for 3:1.
The host might argue that the reason you didn't get the bag was because of a higher than average shot ratio...
But it's all subjective.
Personally I would put it all down to experience and just not go back or use that broker.
Best way to find a shoot is word of mouth.
The only exception should be if someone has poor mobility, then you might rig/swap a couple of the pegs.
It does sound very dear.
I have booked a 150 bird day (but we always go over and there are no "overage charges") for £450 a gun - £27 a bird.
I'm also have a bigger 250 day where I believe it is £36 a bird.
Both are in Essex, so a bit flat, but good quality birds.
In general though, some days it just doesn't happen and you don't get the bag.
If you buy a day it's normal to have some sort of loose contract, charges if you go over, failing to get a cetain shot ration etc.
Your shot to kill ratio is 3.97/1.
Unless they were very testing birds then most people aim for 3:1.
The host might argue that the reason you didn't get the bag was because of a higher than average shot ratio...
But it's all subjective.
Personally I would put it all down to experience and just not go back or use that broker.
Best way to find a shoot is word of mouth.
Edited by urquattroGus on Friday 27th October 16:07
PhilboSE said:
Absolutely no comment or apology was made for the lack of birds.
All the gamekeepers I know would have been embarrassed If it was as you say a lack of birds and not poor shooting. They live on the presentation of enough birds for the guns to fulfil the bag, and as for not drawing pegs, wtf!Thanks all for comments chaps. Sounds like my impressions as a newbie weren't too wide of the mark.
I have a place in north Suffolk so all of Norfolk, Suffolk and Essex are within reasonable range. I'll be trying a few other shoots I think...any recommendations welcome. I've been scouring gunsonpegs but details are often very light on there so it's not always clear what you're getting in to.
Jem0911, I would love to take you up on the pegs on 2/12 but currently have some other commitments which I am seeing if I can rearrange! Will PM you if I have any success with this.
urquattroGus - we could have been well under the 3:1 ratio if we'd held back. I didn't even know they would be counting shots; by the third peg and I hadn't had a shot I let go about 12 cartridges at birds at extreme range - George Digweed exposition stuff (needless to say, the shots were wasted!). Of the birds that presented I let off 12 cartridges to get 6 birds - mostly because I put both barrels into some birds to "make sure" as given my newbie status I wasn't sure if I'd just winged it or not. From speaking to other guns I know some of them got speculative with their shots as well. Even so, we all let unsporting birds go despite the lack of activity.
I have a place in north Suffolk so all of Norfolk, Suffolk and Essex are within reasonable range. I'll be trying a few other shoots I think...any recommendations welcome. I've been scouring gunsonpegs but details are often very light on there so it's not always clear what you're getting in to.
Jem0911, I would love to take you up on the pegs on 2/12 but currently have some other commitments which I am seeing if I can rearrange! Will PM you if I have any success with this.
urquattroGus - we could have been well under the 3:1 ratio if we'd held back. I didn't even know they would be counting shots; by the third peg and I hadn't had a shot I let go about 12 cartridges at birds at extreme range - George Digweed exposition stuff (needless to say, the shots were wasted!). Of the birds that presented I let off 12 cartridges to get 6 birds - mostly because I put both barrels into some birds to "make sure" as given my newbie status I wasn't sure if I'd just winged it or not. From speaking to other guns I know some of them got speculative with their shots as well. Even so, we all let unsporting birds go despite the lack of activity.
I've never paid to shoot like this. It's an eye opener. We shoot pigeon at no cost other than cartridges, I'm lucky enough to shoot with a guy who has permission on some good farmland.
We've had 700-800 pigeon between us in the last 2 months so probably averaging 50-60per trip. Best bag 201. Also had a few crows and magpie. I love pigeon shooting it can be very hard or sometimes very easy.
We've had 700-800 pigeon between us in the last 2 months so probably averaging 50-60per trip. Best bag 201. Also had a few crows and magpie. I love pigeon shooting it can be very hard or sometimes very easy.
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