The PH Gun Cabinet - Shooting Matters
Discussion
Ziplobb said:
It’s an antique so it’s outside a certificate unless one wants to fire it which is likely to pose all sort of risks
But the point is criminals can buy antiques!They don't care about the Law!
Read my post again.
There is no such thing as an Antique Shotgun.
They have to be deactivated.
Not like Pistols or Rifles.
mickyh7 said:
There is no such thing as an Antique Shotgun.
They have to be deactivated.
Not like Pistols or Rifles.
Not strictly true, IIRC a muzzle loading smoothbore is classed as a shotgun and if it is a genuine antique, not a modern replica, then you can hold one without a licence, but you still can't shoot it unless you have a shotgun certificate with it on.They have to be deactivated.
Not like Pistols or Rifles.
S58 is a horrible nightmare of stupid rules. If you owned two identical Martini Henry rifles, one of which you shoot and the other which you don't, the one you shoot has to be held on a FAC and must be kept in a locked safe, the other you can hang on the wall, hell, you could stick it in the garden and grow roses up it. You are also able to purchase an original Colt 1860 and have it sitting on your coffee table, if, however, you buy a replica from Uberti which functions in exactly the same way, you have to keep it on your FAC and in a safe, even if you never intended to shoot it. (Which would be an excellent way to get it confiscated as you would have no good reason to have it)
MKnight702 said:
Not strictly true, IIRC a muzzle loading smoothbore is classed as a shotgun and if it is a genuine antique, not a modern replica, then you can hold one without a licence, but you still can't shoot it unless you have a shotgun certificate with it on.
S58 is a horrible nightmare of stupid rules. If you owned two identical Martini Henry rifles, one of which you shoot and the other which you don't, the one you shoot has to be held on a FAC and must be kept in a locked safe, the other you can hang on the wall, hell, you could stick it in the garden and grow roses up it. You are also able to purchase an original Colt 1860 and have it sitting on your coffee table, if, however, you buy a replica from Uberti which functions in exactly the same way, you have to keep it on your FAC and in a safe, even if you never intended to shoot it. (Which would be an excellent way to get it confiscated as you would have no good reason to have it)
Interesting thank you.S58 is a horrible nightmare of stupid rules. If you owned two identical Martini Henry rifles, one of which you shoot and the other which you don't, the one you shoot has to be held on a FAC and must be kept in a locked safe, the other you can hang on the wall, hell, you could stick it in the garden and grow roses up it. You are also able to purchase an original Colt 1860 and have it sitting on your coffee table, if, however, you buy a replica from Uberti which functions in exactly the same way, you have to keep it on your FAC and in a safe, even if you never intended to shoot it. (Which would be an excellent way to get it confiscated as you would have no good reason to have it)
I always thought a Smooth bore non Shotgun would have a class as in Musket or Fusil?
The Law seems so silly. Basically allowing lethal weapons into the wrong hands.
If it can be charged, ignited and pressurised.
Filled with Gravel or coins.
It will kill.
mickyh7 said:
Interesting thank you.
I always thought a Smooth bore non Shotgun would have a class as in Musket or Fusil?
The Law seems so silly. Basically allowing lethal weapons into the wrong hands.
If it can be charged, ignited and pressurised.
Filled with Gravel or coins.
It will kill.
You would need access to gunpowder and a source of ignition to make it work. If you have access to gunpowder then you can make a bomb which would be more effective than shooting a single person. Or you could buy some new steel pipe and make a simple muzzleloader for a fraction of the cost of buying an antique. So the current legislation, or indeed any legislation has no hope of preventing this, which is why last week there were 2 Skorpion and 1 Uzi sub machine guns confiscated from various people, none of which has ever been legal to own in the UK.I always thought a Smooth bore non Shotgun would have a class as in Musket or Fusil?
The Law seems so silly. Basically allowing lethal weapons into the wrong hands.
If it can be charged, ignited and pressurised.
Filled with Gravel or coins.
It will kill.
People need to learn that banning stuff doesn't make it vanish in a puff of rainbow coloured smoke, all it means is that law abiding folk who are less likely to be a problem and are already known to the Police hand in their items and the criminals snigger. Look at the "war on drugs" for an excellent example, we can't even keep illegal drugs out of the prison system, let alone off the streets.
MKnight702 said:
You would need access to gunpowder and a source of ignition to make it work. If you have access to gunpowder then you can make a bomb which would be more effective than shooting a single person. Or you could buy some new steel pipe and make a simple muzzleloader for a fraction of the cost of buying an antique. So the current legislation, or indeed any legislation has no hope of preventing this, which is why last week there were 2 Skorpion and 1 Uzi sub machine guns confiscated from various people, none of which has ever been legal to own in the UK.
People need to learn that banning stuff doesn't make it vanish in a puff of rainbow coloured smoke, all it means is that law abiding folk who are less likely to be a problem and are already known to the Police hand in their items and the criminals snigger. Look at the "war on drugs" for an excellent example, we can't even keep illegal drugs out of the prison system, let alone off the streets.
I'm not saying ban them, I'm saying Deactivate them.People need to learn that banning stuff doesn't make it vanish in a puff of rainbow coloured smoke, all it means is that law abiding folk who are less likely to be a problem and are already known to the Police hand in their items and the criminals snigger. Look at the "war on drugs" for an excellent example, we can't even keep illegal drugs out of the prison system, let alone off the streets.
What nonsense. Firing an 18c blunderbuss is more likely to see you killed than whoever you are pointing it at.
Meanwhile, in the real world where we aren't thinking about the children, you can make an unarguably deadly slam-fired pipe gun in 30mins, which includes two cups of tea, and it will fire modern ammunition which 'anyone' can lawfully possess.
With a little more application you can make a functioning open bolt 9mm Parabellum submachine gun, thanks to ingenuity of the late P. Luty. Making ammunition isnt excessively difficult either.
Meanwhile, in the real world where we aren't thinking about the children, you can make an unarguably deadly slam-fired pipe gun in 30mins, which includes two cups of tea, and it will fire modern ammunition which 'anyone' can lawfully possess.
With a little more application you can make a functioning open bolt 9mm Parabellum submachine gun, thanks to ingenuity of the late P. Luty. Making ammunition isnt excessively difficult either.
Johnspex said:
I can't be the only person this happens to.
Very occasionally , when I've shot a round and rack the next one in I find, by the gun jamming, that something is a short way up the barrel. Investigation shows that only a part of the brass has been ejected, about a quarter of the length, and the rest is stuck. A bore snake usually gest the remainder out. When I rack the gun it doesn't feel any different when the bit of case stuck, I can't feel any resistance as the case tears.
Its a very neat tear, equal and square all round the circumference. All I get from members is 'never seen that before'.
Is it using brass that is too old, or is it something more sinister?
The gun is a Marlin 1894C. About 4 years old bought secondhand from a fellow member. It is always spotless.
Thanks for any help or advice you can give.
In addition to my headspace suggestion, I wonder whether it is a .357 that has been used to shoot .38spl? It is possible that the chamber has become worn which can lead to brass tearing, although I still think that incorrect headspace is more likely.Very occasionally , when I've shot a round and rack the next one in I find, by the gun jamming, that something is a short way up the barrel. Investigation shows that only a part of the brass has been ejected, about a quarter of the length, and the rest is stuck. A bore snake usually gest the remainder out. When I rack the gun it doesn't feel any different when the bit of case stuck, I can't feel any resistance as the case tears.
Its a very neat tear, equal and square all round the circumference. All I get from members is 'never seen that before'.
Is it using brass that is too old, or is it something more sinister?
The gun is a Marlin 1894C. About 4 years old bought secondhand from a fellow member. It is always spotless.
Thanks for any help or advice you can give.
Both of these issues are more commonly found in old 'shot out' pieces, though.
944 Man said:
Johnspex said:
I can't be the only person this happens to.
Very occasionally , when I've shot a round and rack the next one in I find, by the gun jamming, that something is a short way up the barrel. Investigation shows that only a part of the brass has been ejected, about a quarter of the length, and the rest is stuck. A bore snake usually gest the remainder out. When I rack the gun it doesn't feel any different when the bit of case stuck, I can't feel any resistance as the case tears.
Its a very neat tear, equal and square all round the circumference. All I get from members is 'never seen that before'.
Is it using brass that is too old, or is it something more sinister?
The gun is a Marlin 1894C. About 4 years old bought secondhand from a fellow member. It is always spotless.
Thanks for any help or advice you can give.
In addition to my headspace suggestion, I wonder whether it is a .357 that has been used to shoot .38spl? It is possible that the chamber has become worn which can lead to brass tearing, although I still think that incorrect headspace is more likely.Very occasionally , when I've shot a round and rack the next one in I find, by the gun jamming, that something is a short way up the barrel. Investigation shows that only a part of the brass has been ejected, about a quarter of the length, and the rest is stuck. A bore snake usually gest the remainder out. When I rack the gun it doesn't feel any different when the bit of case stuck, I can't feel any resistance as the case tears.
Its a very neat tear, equal and square all round the circumference. All I get from members is 'never seen that before'.
Is it using brass that is too old, or is it something more sinister?
The gun is a Marlin 1894C. About 4 years old bought secondhand from a fellow member. It is always spotless.
Thanks for any help or advice you can give.
Both of these issues are more commonly found in old 'shot out' pieces, though.
I've spoken to a gunsmith and he feels it's most likely to be worn out brass.
The gun is relatively new compared to some which have millions of rounds through them
I only shoot 38 Special but when I got it the guy gave me a box of 357 factory rounds. I shot one and that wouldn't eject. I was told it was because it had always had 38s through it and the longer case was catching on a ring of carbon. I gave the rest of the box away.
I'm going to keep a better eye on the brass now.
Thank you everyone for your advice and help.
mickyh7 said:
I'm not saying ban them, I'm saying Deactivate them.
So, in your scenario, which people would surrender their valuable antiques for converting into inert lumps of practically valueless metal? Would it be the same law abiding citizens that always bare the brunt of such pointless legislation or the criminals?Only law abiding folk are affected by laws. What should be being done is much harsher maximum sentences for those that have illegal weapons, not more ways to take stuff from law abiding folk just so you can say "we're doing something". Harsher sentences affect the criminals, not the law abiding, this is how it should work.
Edited by MKnight702 on Wednesday 17th March 12:16
MKnight702 said:
mickyh7 said:
I'm not saying ban them, I'm saying Deactivate them.
So, in your scenario, which people would surrender their valuable antiques for converting into inert lumps of practically valueless metal? Would it be the same law abiding citizens that always bare the brunt of such pointless legislation or the criminals?Only law abiding folk are affected by laws. What should be being done is much harsher maximum sentences for those that have illegal weapons, not more ways to take stuff from law abiding folk just so you can say "we're doing something". Harsher sentences affect the criminals, not the law abiding, this is how it should work.
Edited by MKnight702 on Wednesday 17th March 12:16
You don't need to explain this.
But as already said, anyone can hold Shotgun Cartridges, which are full of powder. Once they are bought, in bulk,with no paperwork other than a look at your Cert.
There's a box in my wife's car in case a Fox turns up on the farm and I'm out of Ammo!
That's completely legal.
Blunderbuss pointed in your face and you'd be thinking about the bad guys fingers?
My money would be on it working!
mickyh7 said:
MKnight702 said:
mickyh7 said:
I'm not saying ban them, I'm saying Deactivate them.
So, in your scenario, which people would surrender their valuable antiques for converting into inert lumps of practically valueless metal? Would it be the same law abiding citizens that always bare the brunt of such pointless legislation or the criminals?Only law abiding folk are affected by laws. What should be being done is much harsher maximum sentences for those that have illegal weapons, not more ways to take stuff from law abiding folk just so you can say "we're doing something". Harsher sentences affect the criminals, not the law abiding, this is how it should work.
Edited by MKnight702 on Wednesday 17th March 12:16
You don't need to explain this.
But as already said, anyone can hold Shotgun Cartridges, which are full of powder. Once they are bought, in bulk,with no paperwork other than a look at your Cert.
There's a box in my wife's car in case a Fox turns up on the farm and I'm out of Ammo!
That's completely legal.
Blunderbuss pointed in your face and you'd be thinking about the bad guys fingers?
My money would be on it working!
I'd imagine a number of law abiding citizens probably already know someone who could at the very least, put them in touch with someone else who could get them an illegal shotgun, so I imagine hardened criminals could find it even easier, and wouldn't need to resort to muzzle loading blunderbusses.
KingNothing said:
I think you're over egging the use of 17th century weaponry in the committal of modern day crimes, why is a bad guy sticking a blunderbuss in my face, is he trying to rob me of my Spanish Doubloons??
I'd imagine a number of law abiding citizens probably already know someone who could at the very least, put them in touch with someone else who could get them an illegal shotgun, so I imagine hardened criminals could find it even easier, and wouldn't need to resort to muzzle loading blunderbusses.
Because somebody on this forum asked the question?I'd imagine a number of law abiding citizens probably already know someone who could at the very least, put them in touch with someone else who could get them an illegal shotgun, so I imagine hardened criminals could find it even easier, and wouldn't need to resort to muzzle loading blunderbusses.
Calm down Dear!
Your coming across like Captain Jack Sparrow!
mickyh7 said:
KingNothing said:
I think you're over egging the use of 17th century weaponry in the committal of modern day crimes, why is a bad guy sticking a blunderbuss in my face, is he trying to rob me of my Spanish Doubloons??
I'd imagine a number of law abiding citizens probably already know someone who could at the very least, put them in touch with someone else who could get them an illegal shotgun, so I imagine hardened criminals could find it even easier, and wouldn't need to resort to muzzle loading blunderbusses.
Because somebody on this forum asked the question?I'd imagine a number of law abiding citizens probably already know someone who could at the very least, put them in touch with someone else who could get them an illegal shotgun, so I imagine hardened criminals could find it even easier, and wouldn't need to resort to muzzle loading blunderbusses.
Calm down Dear!
Your coming across like Captain Jack Sparrow!
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