The professional cycling thread
Discussion
Highway Star said:
I see Wiggins has called time on rowing at Tokyo 2020 as he doesn’t ‘have time’ to do the training. Yeah, just that Brad.
Probably made the legit assumption that as the sportsman with the highest physiology capacity in the sport with the highest physiological demands he could could walk into a much more minority sport and dominate.If he'd started when he was 25 maybe!
Talksteer said:
Probably made the legit assumption that as the sportsman with the highest physiology capacity in the sport with the highest physiological demands he could could walk into a much more minority sport and dominate.
If he'd started when he was 25 maybe!
Perhaps. Though interesting to see Hamish Bond’s recent performances when making the switch in the other direction. A rowing legend, now making a pretty good fist of ITT’ing at the Worlds and Commonwealths.If he'd started when he was 25 maybe!
Spotted this, and thought it merited intellectual debate, nothing more.
(Perhaps lets steer away from comments which may cause offence, and try to discuss the actual issue. Engage "Snowflake Mode.")
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/rac...
(Perhaps lets steer away from comments which may cause offence, and try to discuss the actual issue. Engage "Snowflake Mode.")
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/rac...
Came here to post that.
When I was an under-20 i was an OK 1500m track runner, I was doing times that were only a couple of seconds off the senior womens world record and would have been winning most international races. Was never going to be good enough to be an international male athlete. Would be interesting how the sex change op changes the athletes performance levels.
When I was an under-20 i was an OK 1500m track runner, I was doing times that were only a couple of seconds off the senior womens world record and would have been winning most international races. Was never going to be good enough to be an international male athlete. Would be interesting how the sex change op changes the athletes performance levels.
I used to do a bit of rowing, and had a 6:11.4 time for a 2km rowing machine test. The female heavyweight record is 6:22.8.
https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/racing/reco...
I certainly wondered about changing sex and going for Olympic glory. I didn't for a number of reasons.
Financials of male cycling are very different to female cycling, so the comparison is very difficult. With rowing, the difference isn't so huge, but height is an advantage. I don't know that there is a sport where comparison of athletic performance can be made without some kind of caveat.
https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/racing/reco...
I certainly wondered about changing sex and going for Olympic glory. I didn't for a number of reasons.
Financials of male cycling are very different to female cycling, so the comparison is very difficult. With rowing, the difference isn't so huge, but height is an advantage. I don't know that there is a sport where comparison of athletic performance can be made without some kind of caveat.
lufbramatt said:
Came here to post that.
When I was an under-20 i was an OK 1500m track runner, I was doing times that were only a couple of seconds off the senior womens world record and would have been winning most international races. Was never going to be good enough to be an international male athlete. Would be interesting how the sex change op changes the athletes performance levels.
This, if you look at TT times the junior men beat the elite women. Most cycling clubs will have a number of amateur male TT riders who would also be able to beat the women's world champion too.When I was an under-20 i was an OK 1500m track runner, I was doing times that were only a couple of seconds off the senior womens world record and would have been winning most international races. Was never going to be good enough to be an international male athlete. Would be interesting how the sex change op changes the athletes performance levels.
The sex change operation does not change underlying physiology beyond suppressing testosterone production.
We already know that women doped up on T (e.g. East Germans in the 1980's) cannot come anywhere near the athletic abilities of clean elite male athletes. Incidentally it is the lack of natural T that means doping is proportionally more beneficial for women which is why todays (relatively) clean men have beaten most of the old roided out records from the 1980's but women are nowhere near them.
The only reason I suspect this hasn't received official pushback is because it a masters event.
The whole point of classifications are that they allow more people to have meaningful competition. It isn't possible to have meaningful competition if people born as males are competing. Anti discriminatory laws have limitations, this is one of those limitations.
lufbramatt said:
Came here to post that.
When I was an under-20 i was an OK 1500m track runner, I was doing times that were only a couple of seconds off the senior womens world record and would have been winning most international races. Was never going to be good enough to be an international male athlete. Would be interesting how the sex change op changes the athletes performance levels.
This, if you look at TT times the junior men beat the elite women. Most cycling clubs will have a number of amateur male TT riders who would also be able to beat the women's world champion too.When I was an under-20 i was an OK 1500m track runner, I was doing times that were only a couple of seconds off the senior womens world record and would have been winning most international races. Was never going to be good enough to be an international male athlete. Would be interesting how the sex change op changes the athletes performance levels.
The sex change operation does not change underlying physiology beyond suppressing testosterone production.
We already know that women doped up on T (e.g. East Germans in the 1980's) cannot come anywhere near the athletic abilities of clean elite male athletes. Incidentally it is the lack of natural T that means doping is proportionally more beneficial for women which is why todays (relatively) clean men have beaten most of the old roided out records from the 1980's but women are nowhere near them.
The only reason I suspect this hasn't received official pushback is because it a masters event.
The whole point of classifications are that they allow more people to have meaningful competition. It isn't possible to have meaningful competition if people born as males are competing. Anti discriminatory laws have limitations, this is one of those limitations.
Talksteer said:
We already know that women doped up on T (e.g. East Germans in the 1980's) cannot come anywhere near the athletic abilities of clean elite male athletes. Incidentally it is the lack of natural T that means doping is proportionally more beneficial for women which is why todays (relatively) clean men have beaten most of the old roided out records from the 1980's but women are nowhere near them.
This is very interesting. Although a proportion of the improvements since the roided out 80's will be due to increased knowledge of nutrition, aerodynamics and better equipment, which due to the funding issue will have favoured men.Reading through some of the Velo interview, below, but skimming a little due to time constraints, it does seem that the factors other than Testosterone levels that might make a difference are being glossed over.
https://www.velonews.com/2018/10/news/qa-dr-rachel...
I don't know the answer to this particular issue, if there is indeed one, but I know the factors in determining the answer are many and complex...
louiebaby said:
Spotted this, and thought it merited intellectual debate, nothing more.
(Perhaps lets steer away from comments which may cause offence, and try to discuss the actual issue. Engage "Snowflake Mode.")
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/rac...
I think it's a load of old (now removed and sitting on the shelf in a nice pot) b(Perhaps lets steer away from comments which may cause offence, and try to discuss the actual issue. Engage "Snowflake Mode.")
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/rac...
ks.Someone born a man shouldn't be able to compete with women when the sport is based on physiology.
If it was a game of chess, fair enough.
I see the bloke that won the women's race has waded in with the old trans card.
I guess this is nothing new. Blokes have been winning women's tennis tournaments for a while now.
Edited by funkyrobot on Wednesday 17th October 14:23
louiebaby said:
This is very interesting. Although a proportion of the improvements since the roided out 80's will be due to increased knowledge of nutrition, aerodynamics and better equipment, which due to the funding issue will have favoured men.
Reading through some of the Velo interview, below, but skimming a little due to time constraints, it does seem that the factors other than Testosterone levels that might make a difference are being glossed over.
https://www.velonews.com/2018/10/news/qa-dr-rachel...
I don't know the answer to this particular issue, if there is indeed one, but I know the factors in determining the answer are many and complex...
It seems they're saying the difference between men and woman isn't physiological, just everyone is different. That surely means there should not be a separation between men and womans races? So just stick them all together then.Reading through some of the Velo interview, below, but skimming a little due to time constraints, it does seem that the factors other than Testosterone levels that might make a difference are being glossed over.
https://www.velonews.com/2018/10/news/qa-dr-rachel...
I don't know the answer to this particular issue, if there is indeed one, but I know the factors in determining the answer are many and complex...
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