The Swimming Thread - Pool/OW
Discussion
Highway Star said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
Gutted for Cseh
Likewise, hope he can do the 100, but Le Clos' speed looked really good.Nice to see Pellegrini do it for us oldies (and she's kind of easy on the eye too)...
4x100 Mixed relay was interesting. Think its only the first or maybe second time I have seen it done, shame O'conner got pipped at the end! And I would not have liked to have been Georgia Davies having to race big Matt Grevers.... he's 6ft 8!
Otispunkmeyer said:
4x100 Mixed relay was interesting. Think its only the first or maybe second time I have seen it done, shame O'conner got pipped at the end! And I would not have liked to have been Georgia Davies having to race big Matt Grevers.... he's 6ft 8!
Highlights how we desperately need a male backstroker (and Walker-Hebborn isn't the answer). Our male medley team would be flat out competing with the US if we had one to go along with Peaty, Guy and Scott.How tall is Matt Grevers? I've heard him described at 6'6", 6'7", 6'8" and 6'9" on the BBC coverage this week!
Sure it's 6 8".
Walker-Hebborn ... No idea what he's up to. There's always something for his not performing well or in this case not performing at all. Think it's time he just turned his attention to something else.
Just watched 200 br semi... That Russian bloke Chupkov, just strange. Didn't bother streamlining at all, not the dive, not on his turns, not on his stroke. Just had his hands out shoulder width.
Cruised around for 3 lengths and then opened the taps on the last length to win the semi only half a second away from the WR.
Could he go faster with better technique? I am starting to think that conventional "good technique" isn't all it's made out to be sometimes. You gotta find something that works for you, that is comfortable.
Walker-Hebborn ... No idea what he's up to. There's always something for his not performing well or in this case not performing at all. Think it's time he just turned his attention to something else.
Just watched 200 br semi... That Russian bloke Chupkov, just strange. Didn't bother streamlining at all, not the dive, not on his turns, not on his stroke. Just had his hands out shoulder width.
Cruised around for 3 lengths and then opened the taps on the last length to win the semi only half a second away from the WR.
Could he go faster with better technique? I am starting to think that conventional "good technique" isn't all it's made out to be sometimes. You gotta find something that works for you, that is comfortable.
Lots of talk about what Peaty is doing with his stroke. IMO they're all looking too deeply into it.
His main trick is his turn over.
Yes he's a big, powerful bloke... but so are the other guys. The other guys also have technically fine strokes. If Peaty IS better in these areas, its only marginal. Where he wins is turn over and his ability to resist fading. Where others begin to tire; fatigue taking the edge off their peak turn over rate or peak force production. Peaty is able to hold it steady, keep pumping the force in with the hands and feet and keeping the rate up. He doesn't accelerate away from everyone else; everyone else just cannot maintain the power he can.
Energy or work is Force x Distance. Power is how much work you can do in a given time. Peaty has nary a dead spot in his stroke, the turn over is that fast, so his power delivery is going to be higher as an average. But its just that ability to keep it going without seemingly any fading at all.
Sounds simple of course, but achieving turn over is hard, for me much harder than tweaking stroke technique. So many times where I've felt like I really made improvements to turn over on backstroke and then I watch the videos back and it looks like I've gone for a stroll. At the time it felt like I was windmilling like a tornado!
Wonder how much of that resistance to fading and that ability to keep the force and turnover going is trained or is just nature.... the guy must be entirely comprised of fast-twitch muscle!!!
(and Ledecky clearly has never met with our old friend lactic acid)
His main trick is his turn over.
Yes he's a big, powerful bloke... but so are the other guys. The other guys also have technically fine strokes. If Peaty IS better in these areas, its only marginal. Where he wins is turn over and his ability to resist fading. Where others begin to tire; fatigue taking the edge off their peak turn over rate or peak force production. Peaty is able to hold it steady, keep pumping the force in with the hands and feet and keeping the rate up. He doesn't accelerate away from everyone else; everyone else just cannot maintain the power he can.
Energy or work is Force x Distance. Power is how much work you can do in a given time. Peaty has nary a dead spot in his stroke, the turn over is that fast, so his power delivery is going to be higher as an average. But its just that ability to keep it going without seemingly any fading at all.
Sounds simple of course, but achieving turn over is hard, for me much harder than tweaking stroke technique. So many times where I've felt like I really made improvements to turn over on backstroke and then I watch the videos back and it looks like I've gone for a stroll. At the time it felt like I was windmilling like a tornado!
Wonder how much of that resistance to fading and that ability to keep the force and turnover going is trained or is just nature.... the guy must be entirely comprised of fast-twitch muscle!!!
(and Ledecky clearly has never met with our old friend lactic acid)
Otispunkmeyer said:
James Guy. You f
king beauty! 4x200 relay, went in nearly 2 seconds down. Won it by a second.
49 split at the 100, 1:43 final split. Absolutely supreme swimming. Especially after having just done the 100 fly in a 50 point.
Yes, brilliant stuff. I thought Scott and Grainger swam very well too. Milne wasn't bad, but a little off his best. Only 3 seconds off the WR - that has to be within scope.king beauty! 4x200 relay, went in nearly 2 seconds down. Won it by a second. 49 split at the 100, 1:43 final split. Absolutely supreme swimming. Especially after having just done the 100 fly in a 50 point.
Finally....an indoor swimming event that only involves an entry fee and no sponsorship!
I saw an advert on Facebook last week and followed the link to find this: https://www.marathonswims.com/
Swim up to 10k (marathon distance), 5k or 1k as an individual or 10k as a team of two. Only available in London at the moment (
) but they're looking to expand nationwide.
I'm very tempted, although it would be a weekend affair for me with the travelling to London. I only enter indoor events but have yet to find one where you don't need to beg people for sponsorship.
I saw an advert on Facebook last week and followed the link to find this: https://www.marathonswims.com/
Swim up to 10k (marathon distance), 5k or 1k as an individual or 10k as a team of two. Only available in London at the moment (
) but they're looking to expand nationwide. I'm very tempted, although it would be a weekend affair for me with the travelling to London. I only enter indoor events but have yet to find one where you don't need to beg people for sponsorship.
Been quiet on this thread for a while. After 3.5 years out of the water and 4 years since I last competed (Masters Nationals in 2013), I've started swimming again with my old club. Just two sessions a week, but it is starting to come back slowly and I'm now only one lane down from where I used to train.
Aims are: 1. Lose a stone so I have 14.5 stone to haul through the water rather than 15.5. 2. Get into some sort of shape that I might consider competing next year, especially as I have a significant 'age up' next year.
Aims are: 1. Lose a stone so I have 14.5 stone to haul through the water rather than 15.5. 2. Get into some sort of shape that I might consider competing next year, especially as I have a significant 'age up' next year.
Regarding Masters swimming, would I be able to enter any events without being a member of a club? Alternatively, can I be a member of a club, but not receive coaching and get my regular coaching elsewhere?
As I think I mentioned earlier on the thread, I had lessons with a number of different teachers and really struggled with swimming for years until I accidentally stumbling upon 'Total Immersion'. TI produces a freestyle stroke eligible for competition, but achieves it using completely different coaching methods to standard - everything is completely different, and in some cases opposite to standard ASA style coaching. After three years of regular TI coaching I was able to put in competitive Masters times for the 800m and 1500m (around 1m/s), but I didn't want to join a club because I didn't want to return to non-TI coaching and mess up my swimming again. I haven't swum for years now, so it's just an idle thought at the moment, but I have thought about returning to it.
Any ideas?
As I think I mentioned earlier on the thread, I had lessons with a number of different teachers and really struggled with swimming for years until I accidentally stumbling upon 'Total Immersion'. TI produces a freestyle stroke eligible for competition, but achieves it using completely different coaching methods to standard - everything is completely different, and in some cases opposite to standard ASA style coaching. After three years of regular TI coaching I was able to put in competitive Masters times for the 800m and 1500m (around 1m/s), but I didn't want to join a club because I didn't want to return to non-TI coaching and mess up my swimming again. I haven't swum for years now, so it's just an idle thought at the moment, but I have thought about returning to it.
Any ideas?
RobM77 said:
Regarding Masters swimming, would I be able to enter any events without being a member of a club? Alternatively, can I be a member of a club, but not receive coaching and get my regular coaching elsewhere?
As I think I mentioned earlier on the thread, I had lessons with a number of different teachers and really struggled with swimming for years until I accidentally stumbling upon 'Total Immersion'. TI produces a freestyle stroke eligible for competition, but achieves it using completely different coaching methods to standard - everything is completely different, and in some cases opposite to standard ASA style coaching. After three years of regular TI coaching I was able to put in competitive Masters times for the 800m and 1500m (around 1m/s), but I didn't want to join a club because I didn't want to return to non-TI coaching and mess up my swimming again. I haven't swum for years now, so it's just an idle thought at the moment, but I have thought about returning to it.
Any ideas?
You have to be a member of an ASA club. I belong to a tri club, when the masters finals were in London a few years back a couple of the team looked at competing but we couldn't enter under our membership. We shared the pool with an ASA club and they were kind enough to let a couple of people "be on their books" but not train with them.As I think I mentioned earlier on the thread, I had lessons with a number of different teachers and really struggled with swimming for years until I accidentally stumbling upon 'Total Immersion'. TI produces a freestyle stroke eligible for competition, but achieves it using completely different coaching methods to standard - everything is completely different, and in some cases opposite to standard ASA style coaching. After three years of regular TI coaching I was able to put in competitive Masters times for the 800m and 1500m (around 1m/s), but I didn't want to join a club because I didn't want to return to non-TI coaching and mess up my swimming again. I haven't swum for years now, so it's just an idle thought at the moment, but I have thought about returning to it.
Any ideas?
I am sure you could probably find one club who will let you pay subs and not take any benefit :-)
Scabutz said:
RobM77 said:
Regarding Masters swimming, would I be able to enter any events without being a member of a club? Alternatively, can I be a member of a club, but not receive coaching and get my regular coaching elsewhere?
As I think I mentioned earlier on the thread, I had lessons with a number of different teachers and really struggled with swimming for years until I accidentally stumbling upon 'Total Immersion'. TI produces a freestyle stroke eligible for competition, but achieves it using completely different coaching methods to standard - everything is completely different, and in some cases opposite to standard ASA style coaching. After three years of regular TI coaching I was able to put in competitive Masters times for the 800m and 1500m (around 1m/s), but I didn't want to join a club because I didn't want to return to non-TI coaching and mess up my swimming again. I haven't swum for years now, so it's just an idle thought at the moment, but I have thought about returning to it.
Any ideas?
You have to be a member of an ASA club. I belong to a tri club, when the masters finals were in London a few years back a couple of the team looked at competing but we couldn't enter under our membership. We shared the pool with an ASA club and they were kind enough to let a couple of people "be on their books" but not train with them.As I think I mentioned earlier on the thread, I had lessons with a number of different teachers and really struggled with swimming for years until I accidentally stumbling upon 'Total Immersion'. TI produces a freestyle stroke eligible for competition, but achieves it using completely different coaching methods to standard - everything is completely different, and in some cases opposite to standard ASA style coaching. After three years of regular TI coaching I was able to put in competitive Masters times for the 800m and 1500m (around 1m/s), but I didn't want to join a club because I didn't want to return to non-TI coaching and mess up my swimming again. I haven't swum for years now, so it's just an idle thought at the moment, but I have thought about returning to it.
Any ideas?
I am sure you could probably find one club who will let you pay subs and not take any benefit :-)
It's nice to know that's an option for me in the future if I get back into swimming. I'd feel jolly arrogant and awkward doing it, but my times are just so much better now I know TI that there's no way I'd want to go back to the ASA swimming and training methods.I never realised there are 'standard ASA techniques'? I've found it rare to get stroke coaching in masters sessions, certainly you don't at mine and I swim at one of the biggest masters squads in the country. Generally coaching at competitive masters clubs tends towards the session setting and shouting out times rather than teaching swimmers to swim, they kind of assume you can do that already, so as long as you can keep up with the turnaround times (and most clubs will have different lanes based on speed), you should be fine. They tend to train rather than coach, if that makes sense?
As long as for competition purposes, TI complies with ASA rules, I don't see the problem with swimming it during training at masters clubs. ETA - just looked at a TI video - doesn't look *that* radically different to how most distance swimmers swim, so I'm sure you'll be fine.
If you need any recommendations for Berks clubs, let me know, I'm over the border in Oxfordshire, but know most of the clubs in your area.
As long as for competition purposes, TI complies with ASA rules, I don't see the problem with swimming it during training at masters clubs. ETA - just looked at a TI video - doesn't look *that* radically different to how most distance swimmers swim, so I'm sure you'll be fine.
If you need any recommendations for Berks clubs, let me know, I'm over the border in Oxfordshire, but know most of the clubs in your area.
Edited by Highway Star on Monday 2nd October 17:16
Does everyone else find that swimming makes them stupidly hungry? And do you have any advice on how to counter it?
I'm swimming a lot just now and have been for the last year for a mixture of reasons, mostly because I enjoy it and for general fitness but I'd also like to shift some weight. I'm 6 ft 2" and almost 100 kg, sedentary office job.
I'm definitely not at the elite level of many on here, but Saturday morning for example I swam 3200m in a 50m pool in about 75 mins - so a far cry from the 10 x 25m lengths over 40 mins while keeping the hair dry and stopping for a chat every two lengths end of the spectrum also. I swim at least 4 times a week and don't tend to do less than 1600m unless I'm really pushed for time.
So here's the problem - after that swim on Saturday morning I could not stop myself from going into M&S and buying a bag of liquorice allsorts which I ate on the way home. 860 cals. If my fitness app is right that's about what I burned in the pool. This was exceptionally greedy, but generally being ravenous after swimming is normal.
I've actually gained weight since I really increased my swimming effort a few months ago; much of it in my arms and shoulders which I'm happy with and is obviously due to the swimming, but I've shifted little of the excess from around my middle which I attribute to increased hunger!
Obviously stronger will power and generally never going near M&S or any other shop on an empty stomach or post exercise is a big part of the answer, but any other recommendations on how best to eat before/after swimming would be appreciated.
Thanks.
I'm swimming a lot just now and have been for the last year for a mixture of reasons, mostly because I enjoy it and for general fitness but I'd also like to shift some weight. I'm 6 ft 2" and almost 100 kg, sedentary office job.
I'm definitely not at the elite level of many on here, but Saturday morning for example I swam 3200m in a 50m pool in about 75 mins - so a far cry from the 10 x 25m lengths over 40 mins while keeping the hair dry and stopping for a chat every two lengths end of the spectrum also. I swim at least 4 times a week and don't tend to do less than 1600m unless I'm really pushed for time.
So here's the problem - after that swim on Saturday morning I could not stop myself from going into M&S and buying a bag of liquorice allsorts which I ate on the way home. 860 cals. If my fitness app is right that's about what I burned in the pool. This was exceptionally greedy, but generally being ravenous after swimming is normal.
I've actually gained weight since I really increased my swimming effort a few months ago; much of it in my arms and shoulders which I'm happy with and is obviously due to the swimming, but I've shifted little of the excess from around my middle which I attribute to increased hunger!
Obviously stronger will power and generally never going near M&S or any other shop on an empty stomach or post exercise is a big part of the answer, but any other recommendations on how best to eat before/after swimming would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Jambo85 said:
Does everyone else find that swimming makes them stupidly hungry? And do you have any advice on how to counter it?
I'm swimming a lot just now and have been for the last year for a mixture of reasons, mostly because I enjoy it and for general fitness but I'd also like to shift some weight. I'm 6 ft 2" and almost 100 kg, sedentary office job.
I'm definitely not at the elite level of many on here, but Saturday morning for example I swam 3200m in a 50m pool in about 75 mins - so a far cry from the 10 x 25m lengths over 40 mins while keeping the hair dry and stopping for a chat every two lengths end of the spectrum also. I swim at least 4 times a week and don't tend to do less than 1600m unless I'm really pushed for time.
So here's the problem - after that swim on Saturday morning I could not stop myself from going into M&S and buying a bag of liquorice allsorts which I ate on the way home. 860 cals. If my fitness app is right that's about what I burned in the pool. This was exceptionally greedy, but generally being ravenous after swimming is normal.
I've actually gained weight since I really increased my swimming effort a few months ago; much of it in my arms and shoulders which I'm happy with and is obviously due to the swimming, but I've shifted little of the excess from around my middle which I attribute to increased hunger!
Obviously stronger will power and generally never going near M&S or any other shop on an empty stomach or post exercise is a big part of the answer, but any other recommendations on how best to eat before/after swimming would be appreciated.
Thanks.
No more than the other sports that I do. You've used energy to exercise, so it's no surprise that you'll feel the need to replace that energy. If you eat proper food, then you'll probably find that you don't need to ingest anywhere near as many calories as you've burnt to feel satisfied. If I do an 800 calorie run, then I come home hungry, but normally I eat about 300 calories and that does me just fine in addition to what I normally eat. The problem with food like sweets, cake etc is the amount of calories they contain is disproportionately high compared to how full they make you feel - my wife's into nutrition and she's calculated the calories in all our usual meals; a full plate of chicken and vegetable curry and rice, which makes me feel stuffed and need a sit down for an hour, is about 400-500 calories, the same as a large Mars Bar.... I'm swimming a lot just now and have been for the last year for a mixture of reasons, mostly because I enjoy it and for general fitness but I'd also like to shift some weight. I'm 6 ft 2" and almost 100 kg, sedentary office job.
I'm definitely not at the elite level of many on here, but Saturday morning for example I swam 3200m in a 50m pool in about 75 mins - so a far cry from the 10 x 25m lengths over 40 mins while keeping the hair dry and stopping for a chat every two lengths end of the spectrum also. I swim at least 4 times a week and don't tend to do less than 1600m unless I'm really pushed for time.
So here's the problem - after that swim on Saturday morning I could not stop myself from going into M&S and buying a bag of liquorice allsorts which I ate on the way home. 860 cals. If my fitness app is right that's about what I burned in the pool. This was exceptionally greedy, but generally being ravenous after swimming is normal.
I've actually gained weight since I really increased my swimming effort a few months ago; much of it in my arms and shoulders which I'm happy with and is obviously due to the swimming, but I've shifted little of the excess from around my middle which I attribute to increased hunger!
Obviously stronger will power and generally never going near M&S or any other shop on an empty stomach or post exercise is a big part of the answer, but any other recommendations on how best to eat before/after swimming would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Perhaps before you go swimming you should put some proper food in the car to stop you needing to buy junk? Some milk, a banana and a sandwich with protein maybe?
RobM77 said:
The problem with food like sweets, cake etc is the amount of calories they contain is disproportionately high compared to how full they make you feel
...
Perhaps before you go swimming you should put some proper food in the car to stop you needing to buy junk? Some milk, a banana and a sandwich with protein maybe?
Thanks, I guess that's exactly it - I eat pretty well most of the time so just need to plan ahead for the hunger. I don't know why it's still a surprise to me!...
Perhaps before you go swimming you should put some proper food in the car to stop you needing to buy junk? Some milk, a banana and a sandwich with protein maybe?
Highway Star said:
I never realised there are 'standard ASA techniques'? I've found it rare to get stroke coaching in masters sessions, certainly you don't at mine and I swim at one of the biggest masters squads in the country. Generally coaching at competitive masters clubs tends towards the session setting and shouting out times rather than teaching swimmers to swim, they kind of assume you can do that already, so as long as you can keep up with the turnaround times (and most clubs will have different lanes based on speed), you should be fine. They tend to train rather than coach, if that makes sense?
As long as for competition purposes, TI complies with ASA rules, I don't see the problem with swimming it during training at masters clubs. ETA - just looked at a TI video - doesn't look *that* radically different to how most distance swimmers swim, so I'm sure you'll be fine.
If you need any recommendations for Berks clubs, let me know, I'm over the border in Oxfordshire, but know most of the clubs in your area.
Thanks. Yes, whilst a TI stroke is still legally a front crawl, many of the details are very different and it often looks different (the most obvious difference is probably the lack of splashing and water disturbance). I had assumed you got stroke coaching at swimming clubs, because improving technique to gain speed is what TI focuses on. Usually, at each coaching session we work on something small - last time it was hip rotation timing and it slashed 3 seconds off my 100m time. If you don't get coaching like that at swimming clubs though, that's cool, and just what I wanted to hear As long as for competition purposes, TI complies with ASA rules, I don't see the problem with swimming it during training at masters clubs. ETA - just looked at a TI video - doesn't look *that* radically different to how most distance swimmers swim, so I'm sure you'll be fine.
If you need any recommendations for Berks clubs, let me know, I'm over the border in Oxfordshire, but know most of the clubs in your area.
Edited by Highway Star on Monday 2nd October 17:16
Edited by RobM77 on Monday 22 January 11:00
I can understand the hunger...I have two kids, one averages about 30,000m a week, the other around 20,000m a week.
There's little food in the house when I get home...proper horaces! The calorie burn is horrific...
Not to mention wife and I both gym 6-7 times a week each and my food shop is astronomical at the moment
There's little food in the house when I get home...proper horaces! The calorie burn is horrific...
Not to mention wife and I both gym 6-7 times a week each and my food shop is astronomical at the moment
dirty boy said:
I can understand the hunger...I have two kids, one averages about 30,000m a week, the other around 20,000m a week.
There's little food in the house when I get home...proper horaces! The calorie burn is horrific...
Not to mention wife and I both gym 6-7 times a week each and my food shop is astronomical at the moment
That’s a lot of swimming reminds me of my youth didn’t last long I didn’t find it enjoyable. There's little food in the house when I get home...proper horaces! The calorie burn is horrific...
Not to mention wife and I both gym 6-7 times a week each and my food shop is astronomical at the moment
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