The Swimming Thread - Pool/OW
Discussion
I'm in a massive rut at the minute. I need to drag myself out it and I need a goal to focus on. I've been doing triathlon for the last few years but this year my wife is doing a university thesis and I need to be around at the weekends for the kids and dont have time for 3 hr runs and 6 hr bike rides.
I do have lots of time before work though as my wife starts work at 10 and does the school run. So I'm thinking of a swimming goal. I looked at long swim event but I've done Consiton end to end and the Windermemre event is a ripoff.
I was thinking therefore to set a target for a 400m FS PB. My current PB is 5:51, from 2 years ago.
What do people think I should be aiming for? Something to reach by Christmas. 5:30? That too ambitious or not enough?
I'm going to ramp up to 5 maybe 6 swims a week. 3.2 - 4km a pop. Plus some strength work and cycling to work each day.
I want something tough but achievable. My current overall CV fitness I'd rate as good, my swim fitness is lagging.
Set me a target please.
I do have lots of time before work though as my wife starts work at 10 and does the school run. So I'm thinking of a swimming goal. I looked at long swim event but I've done Consiton end to end and the Windermemre event is a ripoff.
I was thinking therefore to set a target for a 400m FS PB. My current PB is 5:51, from 2 years ago.
What do people think I should be aiming for? Something to reach by Christmas. 5:30? That too ambitious or not enough?
I'm going to ramp up to 5 maybe 6 swims a week. 3.2 - 4km a pop. Plus some strength work and cycling to work each day.
I want something tough but achievable. My current overall CV fitness I'd rate as good, my swim fitness is lagging.
Set me a target please.
Scabutz said:
What do people think I should be aiming for? Something to reach by Christmas. 5:30? That too ambitious or not enough?
The target has to be very individual - how does the training volume you propose (which looks like a lot to me) compare to when you could do 5:51? Also, whether or not you have a background as a swimmer makes a huge difference. I'd take a benchmark of where you are today, do so again in 2 weeks, then aim to improve by the same margin again in 4 weeks, and same again 8 weeks later. So, for example, that may be 6:00 today, 5:50 in June, 5:40 July, 5:30 September. If you have a slower starting point, adjust accordingly.I did expect running fitness (which was pretty good up until recently - probably 32ish for 10km) to help out with the 400FS but, having put it to the test I doubt it has that it made much difference - swimming is all about the arms & shoulders and I don't think running helps much with aerobic development in that area - it needs to be specific. Strangely my sprinting is improving much more quickly than distance - I'm thinking of ditching my 400m goal and going back to my old preference of 50/100. I really enjoyed swimming some hard 35m reps earlier in the week.
Some good news for my arthritic knee. Unexpectedly the swelling has reduced to almost zero. I've increased my running to 30-40 mins per day (hard not to in this weather) and even thrown in a few lengths of breaststroke (along with back & fly, and even a hard 100m IM for fun).
Has anybody ever competed in a swim / run type event?
onedsla said:
The target has to be very individual - how does the training volume you propose (which looks like a lot to me) compare to when you could do 5:51? Also, whether or not you have a background as a swimmer makes a huge difference. I'd take a benchmark of where you are today, do so again in 2 weeks, then aim to improve by the same margin again in 4 weeks, and same again 8 weeks later. So, for example, that may be 6:00 today, 5:50 in June, 5:40 July, 5:30 September. If you have a slower starting point, adjust accordingly.
I did expect running fitness (which was pretty good up until recently - probably 32ish for 10km) to help out with the 400FS but, having put it to the test I doubt it has that it made much difference - swimming is all about the arms & shoulders and I don't think running helps much with aerobic development in that area - it needs to be specific. Strangely my sprinting is improving much more quickly than distance - I'm thinking of ditching my 400m goal and going back to my old preference of 50/100. I really enjoyed swimming some hard 35m reps earlier in the week.
Some good news for my arthritic knee. Unexpectedly the swelling has reduced to almost zero. I've increased my running to 30-40 mins per day (hard not to in this weather) and even thrown in a few lengths of breaststroke (along with back & fly, and even a hard 100m IM for fun).
Has anybody ever competed in a swim / run type event?
When I did 5:51 I was in pretty good shape. I think back then I was swimming 3 x week - 3.2 - 4k per session. Prior to that I had been swimming 4-5 x week in the season before. I don't have a swimming background, in fact 2012 I couldn't swim, well I could throw a couple of lengths together. I had some lessons. What I do have is a swimmers build, very close to Phelps in fact, 6'5'', 6'8'' arm span, relatively short legs.I did expect running fitness (which was pretty good up until recently - probably 32ish for 10km) to help out with the 400FS but, having put it to the test I doubt it has that it made much difference - swimming is all about the arms & shoulders and I don't think running helps much with aerobic development in that area - it needs to be specific. Strangely my sprinting is improving much more quickly than distance - I'm thinking of ditching my 400m goal and going back to my old preference of 50/100. I really enjoyed swimming some hard 35m reps earlier in the week.
Some good news for my arthritic knee. Unexpectedly the swelling has reduced to almost zero. I've increased my running to 30-40 mins per day (hard not to in this weather) and even thrown in a few lengths of breaststroke (along with back & fly, and even a hard 100m IM for fun).
Has anybody ever competed in a swim / run type event?
I am going to have a 1-2-1 session with my coach in a couple of weeks. We will do a 400m TT and see where I am now. He is saying somewhere between 5:30 and 5:40. I am calling it Project 5:3X.
Regards to swim run I have not done it, but my coach as done a few and I thin won some of the races. He has done a write up here: https://www.greenlightpt.co.uk/blog/breca-swimrun-.... I think this was his first, last couple of races him and Jon the other coach have smashed it.
Scabutz said:
Regards to swim run I have not done it, but my coach as done a few and I think won some of the races.
My knees hurt just reading that. I prefer shorter, faster events.The kind of thing I was looking for is like this very local race last month which was a 400m pool swim into 5km road race. I was put off from entering as I'd only been swimming for 3 weeks at that point and my perception was that my ~5:45 form would have been slow, whilst I'd just taken 3 weeks off from running and so going straight into a race was not sensible. Now that I'm in week 7 of swimming and back to daily running, I was hopeful of finding something similar as a new challenge, but struggling to find anything.
Good news is that the very low running volume has let the swelling on my knee subside. I'm holding it at ~35 miles per week (longest run 7 miles), which hopefully gives a useful cardiovascular boost to supplement the swimming, which I limit to about 25mins per day, 6 or 7 days per week (with 2-3 of those pretty easy spash-abouts). Based on the advice from Highway Star, I've incorporated the strokes (even some breaststroke, 200m, 3 times per week) and often use my daughter's kickboard - most useful when I have to share a lane. I think my body's preference to shorter events is still there - when I look at equivalent FINA points between what I'm already capable of over 50/100m, the corresponding 400m pace looks more akin to my 150-200m speed. Perhaps that will change after a few months?
Next plan is to increase the duration of 1 swim per week to cover 3km and once I can handle that, maybe try out the master's lane at my daughter's swim club. Certainly enjoying it at the moment.
Well
I am seriously hoping the pool we train at have gotten their act together after the joke that was the weekend... this has been bubbling for some time now with general state of the facilities and level of service being poor. For example, the pool level seems to vary by nearly a foot through the week as they seemingly don't realise the backwash process will start emptying the pool if you do it too long, the lane ropes are constantly falling out of their fixings and the lifeguards will put them in with about as much tension as wet spaghetti. This is highly annoying on backstroke as the lane rope is constantly moving and I end up catching my fingers in the plastic disc things.
On some nights, if one lane is doing sprints, their waves will push the ropes so far that the neighbouring lanes end up about 1 m wide!
Then there are the showers, which for the past several months have been too hot to even stand under and on occasion burning hot.
Then over the past few weeks, the pool temperature, which has yo-yo'd between Baltic and nice warm bath, culminated on Sunday with a 37 deg pool temperature. About the same as you'd set a Jacuzzi. Virtually impossible to swim in at anything beyond swim down pace and after a set of 6 x 50's we stopped to cool down. We just got out in the end and of course, couldn't go to the showers to cool off!!
It was hot the sunday before as well, though we just about managed the set by adding extra rest to cool off. But you could at least do a 100, 150 m with some decent effort. But this time, even just putting your face in the water was too much.
I am seriously hoping the pool we train at have gotten their act together after the joke that was the weekend... this has been bubbling for some time now with general state of the facilities and level of service being poor. For example, the pool level seems to vary by nearly a foot through the week as they seemingly don't realise the backwash process will start emptying the pool if you do it too long, the lane ropes are constantly falling out of their fixings and the lifeguards will put them in with about as much tension as wet spaghetti. This is highly annoying on backstroke as the lane rope is constantly moving and I end up catching my fingers in the plastic disc things.
On some nights, if one lane is doing sprints, their waves will push the ropes so far that the neighbouring lanes end up about 1 m wide!
Then there are the showers, which for the past several months have been too hot to even stand under and on occasion burning hot.
Then over the past few weeks, the pool temperature, which has yo-yo'd between Baltic and nice warm bath, culminated on Sunday with a 37 deg pool temperature. About the same as you'd set a Jacuzzi. Virtually impossible to swim in at anything beyond swim down pace and after a set of 6 x 50's we stopped to cool down. We just got out in the end and of course, couldn't go to the showers to cool off!!
It was hot the sunday before as well, though we just about managed the set by adding extra rest to cool off. But you could at least do a 100, 150 m with some decent effort. But this time, even just putting your face in the water was too much.
These sorts of problems seem to be coming more and more common. I have been a member of my pool for years. Its been a long running joke in my triathlon club about how dirty it is. But its getting worse. I took my daughter and her friend there at the weekend and they were both complaining about how filthy it was. The changing rooms stank of piss.
Most of the lockers had keys broken or missing so they replaced the with ones that took a padlock, which you had to buy from them for £2.50.
I cancelled my membership and was going to join one near my office, then read the Google reviews of that and it sounded even worse.
They just dont seem to invest any money in keeping stuff clean and up to date. Its always busy in there and plenty of regulars like me paying £40/month.
I've joined a different one, few people in my club go and its supposed to be much better.
Most of the lockers had keys broken or missing so they replaced the with ones that took a padlock, which you had to buy from them for £2.50.
I cancelled my membership and was going to join one near my office, then read the Google reviews of that and it sounded even worse.
They just dont seem to invest any money in keeping stuff clean and up to date. Its always busy in there and plenty of regulars like me paying £40/month.
I've joined a different one, few people in my club go and its supposed to be much better.
I was going to 'complain' about my experience today until reading this.
Very lucky with 4 council 25m pools within a 3 mile radius, and another 2 about 5 miles away - I get access to all for £25pm.
Add to that a 3 gyms and a school all with well maintained 25m pools and it's little surprise that I rarely have to share a lane during a public session.
First gala for my daughter on Saturday. Aside from the 2012 Olympics, it will be the first I've attended since 1998. It's the club champs and she's down for 50m for all 4 strokes.
Very lucky with 4 council 25m pools within a 3 mile radius, and another 2 about 5 miles away - I get access to all for £25pm.
Add to that a 3 gyms and a school all with well maintained 25m pools and it's little surprise that I rarely have to share a lane during a public session.
First gala for my daughter on Saturday. Aside from the 2012 Olympics, it will be the first I've attended since 1998. It's the club champs and she's down for 50m for all 4 strokes.
Got my first open water swim of the year under my belt yesterday.
I was swimming as a mop up crew for a mock race for the youngsters after a Triathlon festival, so erm.....had to stay at the back (reality was, I couldn't keep up lol!)
We went after the first two waves of the Olympic distance triathletes had set off, I was amazed how many we overtook, I crept round the 1500m (it was later measured at 1600
) course in 28mins with a ridiculously tight wetsuit that restricted my left arm badly and rubbed on my neck after a minute (bleeding by the end) so pretty pleased to be honest.
I'm swimming in the East Region Open Water Championships next month....my first ever swimming competition (other than a 750m swim as part of a sprint tri a couple of years ago).
Doing 2km so the aim was to get under 40 mins, which i'm on target for all being well.
Wish i'd taken up swimming as a youngster though, tough sport to get into in your late thirties.
I was swimming as a mop up crew for a mock race for the youngsters after a Triathlon festival, so erm.....had to stay at the back (reality was, I couldn't keep up lol!)
We went after the first two waves of the Olympic distance triathletes had set off, I was amazed how many we overtook, I crept round the 1500m (it was later measured at 1600
) course in 28mins with a ridiculously tight wetsuit that restricted my left arm badly and rubbed on my neck after a minute (bleeding by the end) so pretty pleased to be honest.I'm swimming in the East Region Open Water Championships next month....my first ever swimming competition (other than a 750m swim as part of a sprint tri a couple of years ago).
Doing 2km so the aim was to get under 40 mins, which i'm on target for all being well.
Wish i'd taken up swimming as a youngster though, tough sport to get into in your late thirties.
Scabutz said:
These sorts of problems seem to be coming more and more common. I have been a member of my pool for years. Its been a long running joke in my triathlon club about how dirty it is. But its getting worse. I took my daughter and her friend there at the weekend and they were both complaining about how filthy it was. The changing rooms stank of piss.
Most of the lockers had keys broken or missing so they replaced the with ones that took a padlock, which you had to buy from them for £2.50.
I cancelled my membership and was going to join one near my office, then read the Google reviews of that and it sounded even worse.
They just dont seem to invest any money in keeping stuff clean and up to date. Its always busy in there and plenty of regulars like me paying £40/month.
I've joined a different one, few people in my club go and its supposed to be much better.
Same. Sundays is free swims, the changing rooms end up looking like a farm. No joke, there is mud and grass and crud everywhere. Empty crisp packets, dirty nappies, piss stench the works. Toilets unusable because theres TP all over the place, piss on the floor, sMost of the lockers had keys broken or missing so they replaced the with ones that took a padlock, which you had to buy from them for £2.50.
I cancelled my membership and was going to join one near my office, then read the Google reviews of that and it sounded even worse.
They just dont seem to invest any money in keeping stuff clean and up to date. Its always busy in there and plenty of regulars like me paying £40/month.
I've joined a different one, few people in my club go and its supposed to be much better.
t spattered all over the shop, sinks full of hair from the indian blokes who think its fine to shave their beard, body and arm pits. Its not necessarily the pools fault, more the people who come to use it, but its still not nice.The pool bottom in ours is grim. Lots of hair, plasters, dirt and lots of sand...presumably from the filters (big pool filters are just massive tanks of cube-like sand grains with a gel layer on top - or at least thats what I was told when I worked as a LG - , but when they get old, the sand can make its way out).
We pay £80/mo to the club for this facility and its a decent sized club. Not the clubs fault because they do get on at the facilities managers about this stuff, but it is council run so there you go...
Scabutz said:
What the actual fk is wrong with people. fk sake.
I guess it could point to some serious mental health issues or perhaps is a cry for help, but equally could just be some sort of ak is wrong with people. fk sake.hole. This is at the best (c5 years old) pool in the city, where we pay some of the highest pool hire fees (and therefore monthly subs) in the country. The pool itself is really good (when the lane ropes are tensioned properly and not waggling around like spaghetti), but every time we train there, something is up - mirrors smashed in the changing rooms, toilets blocked and overflowing, doors hanging off the cubicles, clocks not working - mainly small stuff but it builds up to give a pretty depressing environment to train in sometimes.The more I read, the better my local selection of pools seems to be. That said, things step up over the next couple of weeks. First up is here:
A pool dating back to 1870, situated in the Rhine towards the North of Switzerland.
Followed by a week or so here:
- the water is completely flat, about 1m difference between low and high tide and currently a pleasant 26C. Whilst land temperatures look ok at 28Cish, it's quite humid in Bermuda summertime, so swimming preferable to running.
Hoping to get in some training with my 8 year old. She won her first ever race, 50m backstroke, by over 10s. She swam a 52 with the worst turn you could imagine (at least 3-4 seconds wasted). My time as an 8 year old (albeit 3 months older) was 0.2s slower, but didn't have to faff about with backstroke flip turns in those days. Her FS was also quite good (50), but breaststroke & butterfly require some work! She got her mile badge on Tuesday, swimming a consistent 29-30s per length - will be fun to watch her progress if she keeps it up. My 3 year old got her 10m badge a half hour earlier with the biggest smile on her face - she moves up to the next group in September where they start introducing various strokes.
A pool dating back to 1870, situated in the Rhine towards the North of Switzerland.
Followed by a week or so here:
- the water is completely flat, about 1m difference between low and high tide and currently a pleasant 26C. Whilst land temperatures look ok at 28Cish, it's quite humid in Bermuda summertime, so swimming preferable to running.Hoping to get in some training with my 8 year old. She won her first ever race, 50m backstroke, by over 10s. She swam a 52 with the worst turn you could imagine (at least 3-4 seconds wasted). My time as an 8 year old (albeit 3 months older) was 0.2s slower, but didn't have to faff about with backstroke flip turns in those days. Her FS was also quite good (50), but breaststroke & butterfly require some work! She got her mile badge on Tuesday, swimming a consistent 29-30s per length - will be fun to watch her progress if she keeps it up. My 3 year old got her 10m badge a half hour earlier with the biggest smile on her face - she moves up to the next group in September where they start introducing various strokes.
onedsla said:
Hoping to get in some training with my 8 year old. She won her first ever race, 50m backstroke, by over 10s. She swam a 52 with the worst turn you could imagine (at least 3-4 seconds wasted). My time as an 8 year old (albeit 3 months older) was 0.2s slower, but didn't have to faff about with backstroke flip turns in those days. Her FS was also quite good (50), but breaststroke & butterfly require some work! She got her mile badge on Tuesday, swimming a consistent 29-30s per length - will be fun to watch her progress if she keeps it up. My 3 year old got her 10m badge a half hour earlier with the biggest smile on her face - she moves up to the next group in September where they start introducing various strokes.
Great watching them progress and their faces when they start the realise the importance of a "PB" (although that's not everything!)She's pretty swift for an 8 year old, my daughter was 9 and quarterish before she broke the 50 second barrier in freestyle.
She's been left behind by her peer group though, her friend at school and the club has qualified for Swim England Nationals at the end of the month, she's in the 2007 year too....32.72 for long course 50m back!!
My daughter is the mad girl who enjoys fly and can't breaststroke for s
t, she's really small for her age, but went 36.55 at a league the other week which isn't too bad, she's desperate to crack 35 seconds by the end of the year and make the final in the 50 fly at County Champs...My son is desperate to make Regionals....two years on the trot he's missed out by under half a second on his 100 free, 100 back and 200 back
never mind....he keeps grinding.Hope you enjoy the journey with your daughter with her as much as we are with ours!
dirty boy said:
She's been left behind by her peer group though, her friend at school and the club has qualified for Swim England Nationals at the end of the month, she's in the 2007 year too....32.72 for long course 50m back!!
Small world - kind of - I know the parents of the lass who (I assume) is ranked 1st in that age for the 50 back - she's gone a low 31 which is pretty impressive for a 12 year old. I've noticed that the best girls in some events are now routinely faster than boys up to around 12 or 13, which never happened when I was that age, near 30 years ago now Our coach got in and swam with us Masters this week - he's trying to get fitter as we are trying to get him to do the odd 50 in relays at Masters Nationals - given he once went 26 flat for 50 back, he'd be pretty handy for our relays! He'd set us 6x400 (2 free, 1 IM, twice through) and made me feel pretty good about putting a good 10 seconds into him on the freestyle ones - I looked up his lifetime best when I got home - 3.53 - I don't think he's in that shape now!
Highway Star said:
dirty boy said:
She's been left behind by her peer group though, her friend at school and the club has qualified for Swim England Nationals at the end of the month, she's in the 2007 year too....32.72 for long course 50m back!!
Small world - kind of - I know the parents of the lass who (I assume) is ranked 1st in that age for the 50 back - she's gone a low 31 which is pretty impressive for a 12 year old. I've noticed that the best girls in some events are now routinely faster than boys up to around 12 or 13, which never happened when I was that age, near 30 years ago now Our coach got in and swam with us Masters this week - he's trying to get fitter as we are trying to get him to do the odd 50 in relays at Masters Nationals - given he once went 26 flat for 50 back, he'd be pretty handy for our relays! He'd set us 6x400 (2 free, 1 IM, twice through) and made me feel pretty good about putting a good 10 seconds into him on the freestyle ones - I looked up his lifetime best when I got home - 3.53 - I don't think he's in that shape now!
As for your coach...26 is seriously fast on back and 3:53 for a 400! Reg Lloyd at Ipswich does a 3:47, love seeing him swim a 400, just another level and to think he's 10 seconds off Max Litchfield....I'd love to see the top athletes swim...hope to get tickets to the ISL in London at the end of the year.
I'd love for our club to have a Masters section, something we're working towards but at odds with the pool operator who have a 'Masters' but it's not affiliated in any way.
At a wild guess, never timed myself, but i'd like to think I could pull off a 400m freestlyle in a whisker under 6 mins. I'm trying my best!
onedsla said:
The more I read, the better my local selection of pools seems to be. That said, things step up over the next couple of weeks. First up is here:
A pool dating back to 1870, situated in the Rhine towards the North of Switzerland.
We're blessed with good pools here in Switzerland. Most villages in the lower areas have an open-air one and they can be surprisingly good. As an example Frauenfeld, a city of 60,000 people has one a kids pool & 25m indoors, a year-round outdoor heated spa pool, and a 50m, 25m and huge play pool outdoors for the summer.A pool dating back to 1870, situated in the Rhine towards the North of Switzerland.
Here in St. Moritz we have a new council-run swimming pool / spa:
At the moment it's full of elite triathletes doing altitude training and olympic athletes using the pool to do water-based training so I'm comfortably one of the slowest in the pool. Most of the rest of the year it's possible to do an hour training with only one or two other people in the lane.
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