The **BOXING** thread Vol 2
Discussion
StuTheGrouch said:
Are you sure about the Birmingham event? Or is your damaged head playing games with you?
here you go , f
ko!!.....he slurred....
http://www.collectormania.com/birmingham/
dirty boy said:
I like AJ, he's doing his best to not get involved, but I think this is a step too far too soon.
Wlad to win by KO.
As mentioned, i've hated that drop and retract of the right hand AJ does and he still did it in the last fight...a really bad habit and will get punished.
That being said, if AJ can get on him early, it could go the other way!
Interested to know why you think that, when it wasn't too soon for Fury to beat him- who was younger, slower, weaker, and not even half the athlete AJ is? Fury danced around him, and gave him (in comparison to AJ's power) a few strong slaps every round. Nothing came back.Wlad to win by KO.
As mentioned, i've hated that drop and retract of the right hand AJ does and he still did it in the last fight...a really bad habit and will get punished.
That being said, if AJ can get on him early, it could go the other way!
Two years ago Fury had 24 fights, AJ has had 18 so both were inexperienced compared with Wlad...but Wlad is now 41 and has been our of the ring for a long time by his standards. AJ fought 5 months ago. I watched his public workout, looks very light on his feet and the power is just scary.
Let's see what Wlad does when one of those right hands smashes into his face...
Chad_Hugo said:
dirty boy said:
I like AJ, he's doing his best to not get involved, but I think this is a step too far too soon.
Wlad to win by KO.
As mentioned, i've hated that drop and retract of the right hand AJ does and he still did it in the last fight...a really bad habit and will get punished.
That being said, if AJ can get on him early, it could go the other way!
Interested to know why you think that, when it wasn't too soon for Fury to beat him- who was younger, slower, weaker, and not even half the athlete AJ is? Fury danced around him, and gave him (in comparison to AJ's power) a few strong slaps every round. Nothing came back.Wlad to win by KO.
As mentioned, i've hated that drop and retract of the right hand AJ does and he still did it in the last fight...a really bad habit and will get punished.
That being said, if AJ can get on him early, it could go the other way!
Two years ago Fury had 24 fights, AJ has had 18 so both were inexperienced compared with Wlad...but Wlad is now 41 and has been our of the ring for a long time by his standards. AJ fought 5 months ago. I watched his public workout, looks very light on his feet and the power is just scary.
Let's see what Wlad does when one of those right hands smashes into his face...
fury knows deep down a fully focused wlad in the rematch would have given it to him.....and there was no way he was going to honor the rematch clause.
now to joshua...he isn't as fast as fury when throwing shots, and a lot of that is because he has to plant his feet to get his power down...and i don't think he's particularly light on his feet and by that i mean lateral movement and angle changing. he's quite easy to read whereas fury's herky jerky perpetual motion made him an impossible target to read.
wlad has no issues with slower moving monster hitters (like sam peter) who tend to go in straight lines as it makes them much easier to time.....now bring on a guy like joshua who can bang but doesn't create many angles with footwork coupled with being an open target due to his leaky back hand guard......and wlad's left hook could cause mayhem....
of course, a guy of his size with the inactivity and age (think of what guys like lennox were doing at 41) ...the young lion might catch him cold and spark him out...but he certainly isn't going to out box wlad , no matter if he's 21 , 41 or 61....unless joshua has something in his locker we haven't seen yet...
StuTheGrouch said:
So you aren't giving AJ much of a chance here then?
honestly, if he wins it will be by jumping on wlad and banging him out...aftwer all , we know he hasn't got the whiskers of vitali...i can't see him out jabbing him, i can't see him out maneuvering him, and i can't see him out thinking him.....but joshua has a ruthless, fearless streak that will either be his undoing or be his best friend.....
wladimir had that same reckless aggression in his first 20 odd fights until he got out hustled by purrity who knew how to take him long.....wlad completely gassed out and that was that...
it's very possible that klitschko does exactly the same thing to joshua.
being dead straight i see it as a 60/40 fight in wlad's favour. i THINK the fury loss was a fluke but we'll see how much the long lay off and age will affect the outcome because if this fight was happening with a prime klitschko i'd make it a 80/20 in wlad's favour.
joshua is improving fast but he is still very raw and one dimentional(at least with the performances we've seen so far).....i bet a loss for joshua now would be the making of him much in the same way that sanders made wlad re evaluate his game completely and made him the dominant force he bacame
Fittster said:
Not sure I believe that Fury suddenly became a modern Pernell Whitaker to beat Wlad, he also looked pretty poor against Bryant Jennings.
I think it's simply a case that age has caught up with him.
Of course you could be right pal.......but the pulev fight was only 6 months earlier than the Jennings fight and that was one of Wlad's better performances(pulev).....against a guy who came right at him.joshua take heed...I don't disbelieve him when he talks about getting all caught up in the hype of beating Joe Louis's record and starting to get uber complacent and expectant that he was born to win and extend his reign record for as long as he saw fit......he didn't look great against Jennings but he won and that may have been the start of it...who knows, he could have lost to Jennings, had the wake up call and beaten him in the rematch then gone on to wipe the floor with fury...I think it's simply a case that age has caught up with him.
I won't be floored if joshua wins like I was when fury beat him because I just didn't expect him to lose at the time....but now I have legitimate questions about his age and time at the top.....I just feel he has had the wake up call and will win this one....then spark wilder and sail off to retirement with his atg status even loftier than it already is
dirty boy said:
I've just seen latest AJ sparring and ironically, that right gets clawed back to where it should be in razor sharp time (and it'll f****g need to with Wlad lh)
I'm with Tusc on thoughts i'm afraid, but I'm rooting for AJ.
just watched the pad session this morning....great to see him looking razor sharp there. ...looking a bit quicker than normal??...he certainly looks ready to go!!I'm with Tusc on thoughts i'm afraid, but I'm rooting for AJ.
tuscaneer said:
Hmmmm, looks like he's going for the undisputed world heavyweight Troll title. I hate him, I like him, I hate him, I like him...This did make me laugh out loud.
https://twitter.com/Tyson_Fury/status/855034606185...
tuscaneer said:
The Eddie Hearn and Tony Bellew ones look worryingly convincing! 
tuscaneer said:
Chad_Hugo said:
dirty boy said:
I like AJ, he's doing his best to not get involved, but I think this is a step too far too soon.
Wlad to win by KO.
As mentioned, i've hated that drop and retract of the right hand AJ does and he still did it in the last fight...a really bad habit and will get punished.
That being said, if AJ can get on him early, it could go the other way!
Interested to know why you think that, when it wasn't too soon for Fury to beat him- who was younger, slower, weaker, and not even half the athlete AJ is? Fury danced around him, and gave him (in comparison to AJ's power) a few strong slaps every round. Nothing came back.Wlad to win by KO.
As mentioned, i've hated that drop and retract of the right hand AJ does and he still did it in the last fight...a really bad habit and will get punished.
That being said, if AJ can get on him early, it could go the other way!
Two years ago Fury had 24 fights, AJ has had 18 so both were inexperienced compared with Wlad...but Wlad is now 41 and has been our of the ring for a long time by his standards. AJ fought 5 months ago. I watched his public workout, looks very light on his feet and the power is just scary.
Let's see what Wlad does when one of those right hands smashes into his face...
fury knows deep down a fully focused wlad in the rematch would have given it to him.....and there was no way he was going to honor the rematch clause.
now to joshua...he isn't as fast as fury when throwing shots, and a lot of that is because he has to plant his feet to get his power down...and i don't think he's particularly light on his feet and by that i mean lateral movement and angle changing. he's quite easy to read whereas fury's herky jerky perpetual motion made him an impossible target to read.
wlad has no issues with slower moving monster hitters (like sam peter) who tend to go in straight lines as it makes them much easier to time.....now bring on a guy like joshua who can bang but doesn't create many angles with footwork coupled with being an open target due to his leaky back hand guard......and wlad's left hook could cause mayhem....
of course, a guy of his size with the inactivity and age (think of what guys like lennox were doing at 41) ...the young lion might catch him cold and spark him out...but he certainly isn't going to out box wlad , no matter if he's 21 , 41 or 61....unless joshua has something in his locker we haven't seen yet...
Tusc- your boxing knowledge is far superior to mine, your one of the people that keeps this topic going- but, I have to say your being a bit harsh on AJ and underestimating him I think.
Remember, AJ has so far in his 18 fights shown what he has needed to show to win. He hasn't moved his head much- he hasn't needed to. He hasn't created great angles- he hasn't needed to. All, but one of his opponents have been punching bags. Apart from that one exception, the best experience he got was against Brezeale. A durable punching bag. What do you do when your fighting people who don't actually want to win the fight, but want to collect what at their level is a big pay day with minimal damage?
The Pulev point you made- Pulev refused to fight AJ, got 3 offers from Eddie Hearn turned them all down (and he's never really earned big money not even for the Wlad fight)- because he knew he would take an almighty beating, like he has never had before in his life.
Just a week to go now..hopefully will be one of many great fights in the next 6 months.
I agree with some of what you say, AJ hasn't really needed to step up as his opposition has been limited, so we still really don't know what he's actually capable of.
For those who haven't seen recent sparring....
Wlad - sparring
Joshua - workout
Can't draw too many conclusions from any of that, but nice to see.
For those who haven't seen recent sparring....
Wlad - sparring
Joshua - workout
Can't draw too many conclusions from any of that, but nice to see.
Can't wait, it's going to be one heck of a night of boxing. Said it before but the likes of Rob Mckraken who spend hours each day taking monster punchers like AJ on the pads must really feel it in their shoulders, wrists and elbows, I guess his body is conditioned now but there was a couple in there where you saw Rob wince and try to shake it off.
Vlad isn't going to be bouncing around like that bobbing his head around, if he does I give him about 30 seconds before his head gets taken off, it could well turn into quite a stale fight, you've got to assume a guy with Vlad's experience will be looking at stopping AJ getting his shots of in the first place rather than trying to slip them at least in the early rounds.
I think AJs toughest fight yet was Whyte and lets not pretend he wasn't rocked in that (4th round I believe) he came through it but there was a couple of moments there where a better more experience puncher than Whyte could have really put it on him.
It's so close to call, it really is one of the most anticipated boxing matches I can remember for some time, can't wait.
Vlad isn't going to be bouncing around like that bobbing his head around, if he does I give him about 30 seconds before his head gets taken off, it could well turn into quite a stale fight, you've got to assume a guy with Vlad's experience will be looking at stopping AJ getting his shots of in the first place rather than trying to slip them at least in the early rounds.
I think AJs toughest fight yet was Whyte and lets not pretend he wasn't rocked in that (4th round I believe) he came through it but there was a couple of moments there where a better more experience puncher than Whyte could have really put it on him.
It's so close to call, it really is one of the most anticipated boxing matches I can remember for some time, can't wait.
Chad_Hugo said:
To me AJ is clearly the fastest combination punching heavyweight- by far. Easily out does Fury in that respect. So the question is how will Wlad deal with fast, slick combination punching WITH monster power behind them, from someone he can't bully or lean on it the ring? When I say light on his feet, I mean for a man of his size, compared with other super heavyweights. He was moving very well in his workouts, better than I have seen before.
Tusc- your boxing knowledge is far superior to mine, your one of the people that keeps this topic going- but, I have to say your being a bit harsh on AJ and underestimating him I think.
Remember, AJ has so far in his 18 fights shown what he has needed to show to win. He hasn't moved his head much- he hasn't needed to. He hasn't created great angles- he hasn't needed to. All, but one of his opponents have been punching bags. Apart from that one exception, the best experience he got was against Brezeale. A durable punching bag. What do you do when your fighting people who don't actually want to win the fight, but want to collect what at their level is a big pay day with minimal damage?
The Pulev point you made- Pulev refused to fight AJ, got 3 offers from Eddie Hearn turned them all down (and he's never really earned big money not even for the Wlad fight)- because he knew he would take an almighty beating, like he has never had before in his life.
Just a week to go now..hopefully will be one of many great fights in the next 6 months.
I agree with some of what you say. But ultimately, Tuscaneer is right. That's not a knock on Joshua, he may very well be the real deal but this fight has to be his coming out party to beat an ATG in Klitschko.Tusc- your boxing knowledge is far superior to mine, your one of the people that keeps this topic going- but, I have to say your being a bit harsh on AJ and underestimating him I think.
Remember, AJ has so far in his 18 fights shown what he has needed to show to win. He hasn't moved his head much- he hasn't needed to. He hasn't created great angles- he hasn't needed to. All, but one of his opponents have been punching bags. Apart from that one exception, the best experience he got was against Brezeale. A durable punching bag. What do you do when your fighting people who don't actually want to win the fight, but want to collect what at their level is a big pay day with minimal damage?
The Pulev point you made- Pulev refused to fight AJ, got 3 offers from Eddie Hearn turned them all down (and he's never really earned big money not even for the Wlad fight)- because he knew he would take an almighty beating, like he has never had before in his life.
Just a week to go now..hopefully will be one of many great fights in the next 6 months.
At this very moment in time, this could be a fight too far for Joshua. It all depends on him clearing up his defensive lapses and fighting a perfect fight. Think about it, they're putting him in with the most dangerous heavyweight since Lewis and his big brother Vitali. Wladimir controls his opponents, often taking them into deep waters and drowning them late with his huge knock out power. Does Joshua have the engine to make it to the championship rounds when he hasn't yet been past the 8th?
This boxing match will answer many many questions and I cannot wait. For me it's one of those matches where I want both guys to win and neither to lose. Does Klistchko have anything left after his performances against Jennings and Fury? Will he be gun shy? Can he take Joshua's power? Can Joshua take Wlad's power? Can he outbox a past his prime master boxer in Wlad? Can he show us stuff that he has never shown us before (ala Fury with his feints, head movement and herky jerky style)?
As for being the fastest combination puncher at heavyweight, I think his speed is deceptive as he's faster than he looks for sure. But Luis Ortiz can string some fast and vicious combinations together when he's in the mood.
Groves vs Chudinov for WBA Super-Middleweight title announced for the undercard of Brook-Spence.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/39653335
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/39653335
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