The Running Thread Vol 2
Discussion
Thanks for the good wishes. I’ll draw on them when I’m crying in a ditch at 3 in the morning 
Kit looks a lot better when it’s all packed. Backpack is 8.5kg with 3 litres of water and 500g of 2500kcal of grub. Most of the rest is mandatory kit (knife, meds, bivvy bag, waterproofs etc) with some extras like a GPS and water purifier etc. Rule of thumb is be no more than 10% of body weight, so it’s bang on.
In terms of rest & recovery, there’s not so much. Each main checkpoint, of which there are 5, allows 6 hours stoppage; and there are 2 monitoring checkpoints that allow 30 minutes. Outside of that, it’s bivvying in the great outdoors .. apart from one slog between Cp3 and Cp4 where there’s no mobile phone signal so no stopping. Some kind people also set up their own aid stations, so there’s a burger van in a lay-by when you cross the M62, and 60 miles in there’s a tri club who pitch up with bacon butties and a place to crash, amongst others. The over-arching rule is that if something is available for everyone (eg a supermarket or a pub) then you can use it; personal support (like pacers or your mum bringing you a packed lunch) is a DQ offence.
I do have a plan and times to hit certain points and so on, but I live my life by the Mike Tyson quote “everyone’s got a plan till they get punched in the face”
I’d like to get to CP2 without needing to sleep, so 6pm start in Edale, get to Cp1 by 6am (about 60km), have an hour there refuelling, then head out to CP2 for a midnight finish (about 100km). We’ll see. I’m planning on finishing not winning so if it’s slow then so be it. Naturally there are time cutoffs along the way so I can’t just dawdle.
Kit looks a lot better when it’s all packed. Backpack is 8.5kg with 3 litres of water and 500g of 2500kcal of grub. Most of the rest is mandatory kit (knife, meds, bivvy bag, waterproofs etc) with some extras like a GPS and water purifier etc. Rule of thumb is be no more than 10% of body weight, so it’s bang on.
In terms of rest & recovery, there’s not so much. Each main checkpoint, of which there are 5, allows 6 hours stoppage; and there are 2 monitoring checkpoints that allow 30 minutes. Outside of that, it’s bivvying in the great outdoors .. apart from one slog between Cp3 and Cp4 where there’s no mobile phone signal so no stopping. Some kind people also set up their own aid stations, so there’s a burger van in a lay-by when you cross the M62, and 60 miles in there’s a tri club who pitch up with bacon butties and a place to crash, amongst others. The over-arching rule is that if something is available for everyone (eg a supermarket or a pub) then you can use it; personal support (like pacers or your mum bringing you a packed lunch) is a DQ offence.
I do have a plan and times to hit certain points and so on, but I live my life by the Mike Tyson quote “everyone’s got a plan till they get punched in the face”
I’d like to get to CP2 without needing to sleep, so 6pm start in Edale, get to Cp1 by 6am (about 60km), have an hour there refuelling, then head out to CP2 for a midnight finish (about 100km). We’ll see. I’m planning on finishing not winning so if it’s slow then so be it. Naturally there are time cutoffs along the way so I can’t just dawdle.Trail marathon no2 done on Sunday. The Hampshire Hoppit. I did it in 2019 and finished in 6 hrs. They had to revise the course this time round and put the monstrous ascent right at the very end. Had it not been for that, I'd probably have finished in 5:30, but did 5:50 instead. It was also much wetter muddier and slippier than 2019 so I'm not unhappy with that time at all.
I can recommend this race, it's very well organised and everyone is incredibly friendly.
I can recommend this race, it's very well organised and everyone is incredibly friendly.
feef said:
Trail marathon no2 done on Sunday. The Hampshire Hoppit. I did it in 2019 and finished in 6 hrs. They had to revise the course this time round and put the monstrous ascent right at the very end. Had it not been for that, I'd probably have finished in 5:30, but did 5:50 instead. It was also much wetter muddier and slippier than 2019 so I'm not unhappy with that time at all.
I can recommend this race, it's very well organised and everyone is incredibly friendly.
what on offer food wise at the feeding stations??I can recommend this race, it's very well organised and everyone is incredibly friendly.
I know you’ve all been on tenterhooks for my Spine race Long story short it was a nightmare and I retired myself very early on with a twisted knee after a tumble and the risk of hypothermia because I was so slow moving over the tops. Gutted doesn’t cover it, but I made the right decision at the right time, though I didn’t even get to CP1. There’s always next year!
Long story short it was a nightmare and I retired myself very early on with a twisted knee after a tumble and the risk of hypothermia because I was so slow moving over the tops. Gutted doesn’t cover it, but I made the right decision at the right time, though I didn’t even get to CP1. There’s always next year!bigandclever said:
I know you’ve all been on tenterhooks for my Spine race Long story short it was a nightmare and I retired myself very early on with a twisted knee after a tumble and the risk of hypothermia because I was so slow moving over the tops. Gutted doesn’t cover it, but I made the right decision at the right time, though I didn’t even get to CP1. There’s always next year!
Bad luck - I thought you'd posted your tracker number but realised you hadn't [that I could see] after the gun. And yeah - good hill sense, disasters happen when one thing leads to another to another, so quite right to draw a halt when you see it just going downhill. Long story short it was a nightmare and I retired myself very early on with a twisted knee after a tumble and the risk of hypothermia because I was so slow moving over the tops. Gutted doesn’t cover it, but I made the right decision at the right time, though I didn’t even get to CP1. There’s always next year!rastapasta said:
feef said:
Trail marathon no2 done on Sunday. The Hampshire Hoppit. I did it in 2019 and finished in 6 hrs. They had to revise the course this time round and put the monstrous ascent right at the very end. Had it not been for that, I'd probably have finished in 5:30, but did 5:50 instead. It was also much wetter muddier and slippier than 2019 so I'm not unhappy with that time at all.
I can recommend this race, it's very well organised and everyone is incredibly friendly.
what on offer food wise at the feeding stations??I can recommend this race, it's very well organised and everyone is incredibly friendly.
flapjacks : cut while still in the packet
This is reduced from previous years to make it more covid-safe
There were also water only stations.
I took my own bars as I always do though, but did take advantage of the food too.
bigandclever said:
I know you’ve all been on tenterhooks for my Spine race Long story short it was a nightmare and I retired myself very early on with a twisted knee after a tumble and the risk of hypothermia because I was so slow moving over the tops. Gutted doesn’t cover it, but I made the right decision at the right time, though I didn’t even get to CP1. There’s always next year!
Commiserations mate - that’s harsh, but you made the right call. There will be other years Long story short it was a nightmare and I retired myself very early on with a twisted knee after a tumble and the risk of hypothermia because I was so slow moving over the tops. Gutted doesn’t cover it, but I made the right decision at the right time, though I didn’t even get to CP1. There’s always next year!
Hope the knee heals up soon and you can get back to it asap.
Still, much respect for even attempting it!!
SpydieNut said:
bigandclever said:
I know you’ve all been on tenterhooks for my Spine race Long story short it was a nightmare and I retired myself very early on with a twisted knee after a tumble and the risk of hypothermia because I was so slow moving over the tops. Gutted doesn’t cover it, but I made the right decision at the right time, though I didn’t even get to CP1. There’s always next year!
Commiserations mate - that’s harsh, but you made the right call. There will be other years Long story short it was a nightmare and I retired myself very early on with a twisted knee after a tumble and the risk of hypothermia because I was so slow moving over the tops. Gutted doesn’t cover it, but I made the right decision at the right time, though I didn’t even get to CP1. There’s always next year!Hope the knee heals up soon and you can get back to it asap.
Still, much respect for even attempting it!!
So my 3 covid tests were all negative, so just a cold. Sore throat had gone by Sunday, generally don't feel bad but still a very mild cough so only did easy 4ish miles Saturday, similar Sunday with 3x30secs harder to keep the legs working and an easy 4ish again on Monday, yesterday off.
Today the cough is still there but very minor so decided to try a hard session.
Warm up, 10x600m off 45secs at about 5km pace (averaged around 5:53/mile....most were 5:57/mile or so but the last was 5:23/mile), then 2:30 rest and my usual 4x200m off 40secs, all around 5:00/mile.
Didn't feel too sharp but all things considered, not shabby. Irritating I've had to keep pushing my 5km TT back, was meant to be last Saturday but obviously with the sore throat that wasn't going to happen! Coach is busy next Saturday so will likely be 3 weeks this weekend. No idea what to aim for, track will probably be a tad faster, might go off at 18:45 pace and see how I feel after 4-5 laps.
Today the cough is still there but very minor so decided to try a hard session.
Warm up, 10x600m off 45secs at about 5km pace (averaged around 5:53/mile....most were 5:57/mile or so but the last was 5:23/mile), then 2:30 rest and my usual 4x200m off 40secs, all around 5:00/mile.
Didn't feel too sharp but all things considered, not shabby. Irritating I've had to keep pushing my 5km TT back, was meant to be last Saturday but obviously with the sore throat that wasn't going to happen! Coach is busy next Saturday so will likely be 3 weeks this weekend. No idea what to aim for, track will probably be a tad faster, might go off at 18:45 pace and see how I feel after 4-5 laps.
The long slow slog continues for Smitters... yesterday I managed 30mins of trail running without aggravating any one of the eleventy billion injuries I seem to carry.
I cannot stress enough how important the strength training has been to keep me sane and help me focus on the ultimate goal of running properly again.
My next goal is a run of consistency - five weeks of three runs a week. That's it. No time, pace or distance goals. Just 15 runs. I'm two in this week already, so a strong start!
I cannot stress enough how important the strength training has been to keep me sane and help me focus on the ultimate goal of running properly again.
My next goal is a run of consistency - five weeks of three runs a week. That's it. No time, pace or distance goals. Just 15 runs. I'm two in this week already, so a strong start!
bigandclever said:
I know you’ve all been on tenterhooks for my Spine race Long story short it was a nightmare and I retired myself very early on with a twisted knee after a tumble and the risk of hypothermia because I was so slow moving over the tops. Gutted doesn’t cover it, but I made the right decision at the right time, though I didn’t even get to CP1. There’s always next year!
absolutely the right call. These mad races keep calling to me but I'm just not sure I've got the mental strength for it. I guess there's only one way to find out. What shoes do you run them in and do you have spare dry shoes in the drop bag? Long story short it was a nightmare and I retired myself very early on with a twisted knee after a tumble and the risk of hypothermia because I was so slow moving over the tops. Gutted doesn’t cover it, but I made the right decision at the right time, though I didn’t even get to CP1. There’s always next year!Thinking 2022 for a 100 miler and see how that goes....any suggestions?
Just completed my first half marathon distance last weekend after taking up running last year. 2.07 which am more than happy with at moment. Aiming to get under 2hr with some more training.
However, my knees have been starting to feel it more during the last few weeks, especially on downhill sections. I've been running in Hoka Rincon 2 and have done 410km in them. They still look fine on inspection but can tell cushioning isn't quite what it once was. Is it just a case of time for replacement shoes to ease strain on the knees or should I also be looking at possible underlying issues with knees - build up strength/stamina in that area etc?
Had similar with my knees when I first started getting towards 10k distance but moving to the Hoka's from old shoes helped and not had any sort of pain during/after running until recently again.
If it is just time for new shoes, any other recommendations?
However, my knees have been starting to feel it more during the last few weeks, especially on downhill sections. I've been running in Hoka Rincon 2 and have done 410km in them. They still look fine on inspection but can tell cushioning isn't quite what it once was. Is it just a case of time for replacement shoes to ease strain on the knees or should I also be looking at possible underlying issues with knees - build up strength/stamina in that area etc?
Had similar with my knees when I first started getting towards 10k distance but moving to the Hoka's from old shoes helped and not had any sort of pain during/after running until recently again.
If it is just time for new shoes, any other recommendations?
wrencho said:
absolutely the right call. These mad races keep calling to me but I'm just not sure I've got the mental strength for it. I guess there's only one way to find out. What shoes do you run them in and do you have spare dry shoes in the drop bag?
Thinking 2022 for a 100 miler and see how that goes....any suggestions?
Yep, there really is only one way to find out Thinking 2022 for a 100 miler and see how that goes....any suggestions?
Shoes vary, depending on terrain (fairly obviously). Previous races have been more self-supported, so had to carry everything required and no drop bags were available. For those I’ve used a variety of Inov8 shoes because I fit well in their widest sizes. Because the Spine allows drop bags I started in La Sportiva Jackals and had a bigger pair of Inov8s packed away.
In terms of 2022 100milers, there will be loads. I’d have a think about what kind of terrain and climbing you’d like to do first. For example, Centurion do the TP100 along the Thames path and it’s flat as a pancake; GB Ultras do a good loop around Snowdonia which is just a bit more climby
Hopefully this search will work .. it’s Past Events but has a load of links in it so (hopefully) you can get a good idea of what’s out there.
https://www.runultra.co.uk/Ultra-Marathon-Listings...
MagicHat said:
Just completed my first half marathon distance last weekend after taking up running last year. 2.07 which am more than happy with at moment. Aiming to get under 2hr with some more training.
However, my knees have been starting to feel it more during the last few weeks, especially on downhill sections. I've been running in Hoka Rincon 2 and have done 410km in them. They still look fine on inspection but can tell cushioning isn't quite what it once was. Is it just a case of time for replacement shoes to ease strain on the knees or should I also be looking at possible underlying issues with knees - build up strength/stamina in that area etc?
Had similar with my knees when I first started getting towards 10k distance but moving to the Hoka's from old shoes helped and not had any sort of pain during/after running until recently again.
If it is just time for new shoes, any other recommendations?
Good work on the Half! However, my knees have been starting to feel it more during the last few weeks, especially on downhill sections. I've been running in Hoka Rincon 2 and have done 410km in them. They still look fine on inspection but can tell cushioning isn't quite what it once was. Is it just a case of time for replacement shoes to ease strain on the knees or should I also be looking at possible underlying issues with knees - build up strength/stamina in that area etc?
Had similar with my knees when I first started getting towards 10k distance but moving to the Hoka's from old shoes helped and not had any sort of pain during/after running until recently again.
If it is just time for new shoes, any other recommendations?
Two thoughts:
- strength exercises and physio are great and normally much more effective at tackling underlying weaknesses than changing shoes. One possibility to think about is over-striding, which loads of runners (myself included) do, and it vastly increases the impact on knees. Can you measure your cadence (steps per min)? There's no hard and fast rule, but my current 155spm is generally considered too low, and 180 considered ideal. Knee pain downhill does fit with this.
- although shoes are secondary... the Rincon might be pretty far from ideal. Although it has cushioning, ultimately it's a "super-light" shoe that Hoka describe as "responsive" (i.e. firm) and "light enough for serious racing". With respect, doing a first ever half in >2h means you're not (yet!) a "serious racing" customer. I'd look at a softer/plusher shoe to give your knees an easier life. Sticking with Hoka, head to the running shop and try on Clifton or Bondi. Good luck!
webstercivet said:
Good work on the Half!
Two thoughts:
- strength exercises and physio are great and normally much more effective at tackling underlying weaknesses than changing shoes. One possibility to think about is over-striding, which loads of runners (myself included) do, and it vastly increases the impact on knees. Can you measure your cadence (steps per min)? There's no hard and fast rule, but my current 155spm is generally considered too low, and 180 considered ideal. Knee pain downhill does fit with this.
- although shoes are secondary... the Rincon might be pretty far from ideal. Although it has cushioning, ultimately it's a "super-light" shoe that Hoka describe as "responsive" (i.e. firm) and "light enough for serious racing". With respect, doing a first ever half in >2h means you're not (yet!) a "serious racing" customer. I'd look at a softer/plusher shoe to give your knees an easier life. Sticking with Hoka, head to the running shop and try on Clifton or Bondi. Good luck!
Cheers! Agreed, I am far from a serious racer, just enjoying getting out and slowly improving. Cadence from my last run was around 160~170 but will keep an eye on it. Will take a look for some softer shoes and look into the other recommendations above (will keep the Rincons in the cupboard until I'm fast Two thoughts:
- strength exercises and physio are great and normally much more effective at tackling underlying weaknesses than changing shoes. One possibility to think about is over-striding, which loads of runners (myself included) do, and it vastly increases the impact on knees. Can you measure your cadence (steps per min)? There's no hard and fast rule, but my current 155spm is generally considered too low, and 180 considered ideal. Knee pain downhill does fit with this.
- although shoes are secondary... the Rincon might be pretty far from ideal. Although it has cushioning, ultimately it's a "super-light" shoe that Hoka describe as "responsive" (i.e. firm) and "light enough for serious racing". With respect, doing a first ever half in >2h means you're not (yet!) a "serious racing" customer. I'd look at a softer/plusher shoe to give your knees an easier life. Sticking with Hoka, head to the running shop and try on Clifton or Bondi. Good luck!
)bigandclever said:
Yep, there really is only one way to find out
Shoes vary, depending on terrain (fairly obviously). Previous races have been more self-supported, so had to carry everything required and no drop bags were available. For those I’ve used a variety of Inov8 shoes because I fit well in their widest sizes. Because the Spine allows drop bags I started in La Sportiva Jackals and had a bigger pair of Inov8s packed away.
In terms of 2022 100milers, there will be loads. I’d have a think about what kind of terrain and climbing you’d like to do first. For example, Centurion do the TP100 along the Thames path and it’s flat as a pancake; GB Ultras do a good loop around Snowdonia which is just a bit more climby
Hopefully this search will work .. it’s Past Events but has a load of links in it so (hopefully) you can get a good idea of what’s out there.
https://www.runultra.co.uk/Ultra-Marathon-Listings...
what type of training do you do? I was Strava stalking the winning female (amazing effort!) and she seemed to either do long hikes with big elevation/low tempo or just low tempo running. I think that would be something for me to get my head around...not training to threshold pace and beasting yourself with times.Shoes vary, depending on terrain (fairly obviously). Previous races have been more self-supported, so had to carry everything required and no drop bags were available. For those I’ve used a variety of Inov8 shoes because I fit well in their widest sizes. Because the Spine allows drop bags I started in La Sportiva Jackals and had a bigger pair of Inov8s packed away.
In terms of 2022 100milers, there will be loads. I’d have a think about what kind of terrain and climbing you’d like to do first. For example, Centurion do the TP100 along the Thames path and it’s flat as a pancake; GB Ultras do a good loop around Snowdonia which is just a bit more climby
Hopefully this search will work .. it’s Past Events but has a load of links in it so (hopefully) you can get a good idea of what’s out there.
https://www.runultra.co.uk/Ultra-Marathon-Listings...
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