England rugby squad announced 13th Jan - who's in/out?

[Matt172]

DocJock said:

That's why I asked about standard if proof.

I didn't watch the match. Did the Ulster players complain about eye contact at the time?

The video looks utterly inconclusive.

He points at his eye as he walks off just as the camera pans back to the ref.
The headlines are really misleading in this one, he wasn't cited for gouging as there is no such offence, he was cited for hands in the eye area/eyes. I assume the ban is at the low end because he make contact with the eye area rather than having his fingers in the guys eye sockets

Ashton certainly had his hand over his face as he dragged him down

[London424]

Matt172 said:

DocJock said:

That's why I asked about standard if proof.

I didn't watch the match. Did the Ulster players complain about eye contact at the time?

The video looks utterly inconclusive.

He points at his eye as he walks off just as the camera pans back to the ref.
The headlines are really misleading in this one, he wasn't cited for gouging as there is no such offence, he was cited for hands in the eye area/eyes. I assume the ban is at the low end because he make contact with the eye area rather than having his fingers in the guys eye sockets

Ashton certainly had his hand over his face as he dragged him down

You see hands in peoples faces in every game though!

[Matt172]

London424 said:

You see hands in peoples faces in every game though!

i guess the citing officer saw it a different way, God knows how they decide these things. You can guarantee though that if this had been a citing from a premiership game it would have either been thrown out or his ban would have been up until the first game. Guess having a Frenchman heading the hearing didn't help

[Challo]

Matt172 said:

London424 said:

You see hands in peoples faces in every game though!

i guess the citing officer saw it a different way, God knows how they decide these things. You can guarantee though that if this had been a citing from a premiership game it would have either been thrown out or his ban would have been up until the first game. Guess having a Frenchman heading the hearing didn't help

I suppose looking at the video its more the case of the way he pulls him down, and the hand seems to rake across his face which may or may not have contacted the eye.

Not the brightest thing by Ashton.

[steveT350C]

Do we have confirmation that Hartley is captain yet?

[Challo]

steveT350C said:

Do we have confirmation that Hartley is captain yet?

I think its Monday he is confirming who the skipper is.

[Kermit power]

Challo said:

Matt172 said:

London424 said:

You see hands in peoples faces in every game though!

i guess the citing officer saw it a different way, God knows how they decide these things. You can guarantee though that if this had been a citing from a premiership game it would have either been thrown out or his ban would have been up until the first game. Guess having a Frenchman heading the hearing didn't help

I suppose looking at the video its more the case of the way he pulls him down, and the hand seems to rake across his face which may or may not have contacted the eye.

Not the brightest thing by Ashton.

I think I read that the Ulster player was treated for it at pitch side? That could've been theatrics, or course. Still, anything which keeps Chris "showboating tosser" Ashton off our screens is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. It's bloody frustrating having to try and persuade a bunch of minis at training the following day that no, just because he does a stupid dive, it doesn't mean that they should!

Just noticed as well that with Danny Care not playing against Montpellier (hardly surprising, given that Quins already have a home QF booked), the captaincy has been given to Jack Clifford, despite Robshaw starting.

[Smollet]

Someone who looks very much like Danny Care is playing for Quins this evening.

[Kermit power]

Smollet said:

Someone who looks very much like Danny Care is playing for Quins this evening.

Ben Bottica, maybe?

ETA.. Scratch that, Care just came off the bench. I'd paused the game while I put the kids to bed!

Edited by Kermit power on Friday 22 January 21:48

[irocfan]

Kermit power said:

Smollet said:

Someone who looks very much like Danny Care is playing for Quins this evening.

Ben Bottica, maybe?

DC was a sub - and Quins got humped

[Kermit power]

irocfan said:

Kermit power said:

Smollet said:

Someone who looks very much like Danny Care is playing for Quins this evening.

Ben Bottica, maybe?

DC was a sub - and Quins got humped

God, what a crap game that was! Still, they already had a home QF in the bag...

[Smollet]

Kermit power said:

God, what a crap game that was! Still, they already had a home QF in the bag...

It was dire. The pitch didn't help much but Quins were very poor.

[Joey Ramone]

Challo said:

I suppose looking at the video its more the case of the way he pulls him down, and the hand seems to rake across his face which may or may not have contacted the eye.

Not the brightest thing by Ashton.

The most pertinent point was made by Paul Ackford, which is that Ashton got cited not because he's malicious but because his defence, in particular his tackling technique, is so substandard that he's trying to bring down an opposition player by scrabbling at his face. In other words, the bloke still hasn't sorted out his main weakness, which is his utter fallibility when people run at him.

[Kermit power]

Hartley confirmed as Captain then.

Jesus.

A captain who has been banned for over a year due to poor discipline, and who on current form isn't even nailing down the starting position for his club side!!

Is this really the best we've got???

[Matt172]

Kermit power said:

Hartley confirmed as Captain then.

Jesus.

A captain who has been banned for over a year due to poor discipline, and who on current form isn't even nailing down the starting position for his club side!!

Is this really the best we've got???

Pretty sure his form is nothing to do with why he's not first choice for saints, he's been out injured since we played Sarries at home, then picked up a rib injury before the tigers game, not much chance to be first choice if you can't play

[XCP]

Might as well paint a target on his back.

[Cheib]

He had two choices for Captain...Brown or Hartley....there is nobody else in the squad as assured as those two of their places. Fullback is just a very hard place to do it from....game is much quicker than when Hastings did it for Scotland. Logistically having your fullback as skipper would be nuts during the course of play.

Personally I think England will surprise a few people come 6N.

[irocfan]

XCP said:

Might as well paint a target on his back.

to be fair 50 caps - 1 yellow. No it's not perfect but he's nowhere near as bad as some others

[Kermit power]

irocfan said:

to be fair 50 caps - 1 yellow. No it's not perfect but he's nowhere near as bad as some others

True, but how many of his peers have spent an entire year unavailable to play because they've been serving bans picked up in club matches?

[ewenm]

Anyone know a source for stats on how many penalties each player has given away in their own half? Bans don't bother me so much as the drip-feeding of points to the opposition. My impression of Hartley is that he gives away a lot of penalties but I may well be wrong so some stats would be good.