2017 Lions Tour
Discussion
Here's the thing. Garland could select a faster set of forwards (I thought the starting backs were very good, although Murphy's box kicking was too frequent for my tastes, too often giving possession away).
But even if the forwards were quicker, and could sustain that speed for the full 80, the team cannot in the next 7 days acquire the handling skills, close running runs, and offloads that the ABs have to burn.
So plan A: dominate up front, hasn't worked. And plan B can't be baked in a week. What's left?
But even if the forwards were quicker, and could sustain that speed for the full 80, the team cannot in the next 7 days acquire the handling skills, close running runs, and offloads that the ABs have to burn.
So plan A: dominate up front, hasn't worked. And plan B can't be baked in a week. What's left?
Greg66 said:
So plan A: dominate up front, hasn't worked. And plan B can't be baked in a week. What's left?
Largely agree with what you have said. Plan A but better is the only option i see. We picked the forwards we did for lineouts and it didnt work. Not enough steals. I'd be looking at doing something a bit different and sticking the big tacklers in. Lawes, Itoje & maybe even Haskell. Front row might need a change around as well, focus on scrummagers rather than ball players maybe.
Its gonna be tough!
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TheGreatSoprendo said:
JonChalk said:
Players I never heard mentioned once in commentary (my memory, so don't get too excited!):
12. Ben Te'o (except when subbed)
1. Mako Vunipola,
2. Jamie George
3. Tahg Furlong (apart from chargedown)
5. George Kruis
7. Sean O'Brien
Replacements (can't even remember who came on apart from Itoje & Sexton - that's how much of a difference they made!)
16. Ken Owens, 17. Jack McGrath, 18. Kyle Sinckler, 20. Sam Warburton, 21. Rhys Webb, 23. Leigh Halfpenny.
You couldn't have been paying much attention, it looks like you missed both Lions trys! 12. Ben Te'o (except when subbed)
1. Mako Vunipola,
2. Jamie George
3. Tahg Furlong (apart from chargedown)
5. George Kruis
7. Sean O'Brien
Replacements (can't even remember who came on apart from Itoje & Sexton - that's how much of a difference they made!)
16. Ken Owens, 17. Jack McGrath, 18. Kyle Sinckler, 20. Sam Warburton, 21. Rhys Webb, 23. Leigh Halfpenny.
Really didn't see Warburton add much when he came on...and we lost POM's line our ability. I reckon that bench slot for the back row is up for grabs.
Edited by Cheib on Saturday 24th June 14:34
El stovey said:
Jonnny said:
Why is Itoje not on at the start, is he better as an impact player.. Definitely did well when he came on.
He's not Welsh.Gatland wants a central spine of old guard Welsh players in his side. That's AWJ, Warburton North and Davies and halfpenny,
Warburton isn't fit enough and halfpenny hasn't been playing well enough. Despite that he still put them both on the bench with little impact, Mercifully North wasn't selected.
Davies played very well today and has in the previous games. AWJ didn't play well and shouldn't start in the next test. Williams had a great first half.
The squad is simply too Welsh and has too much Welsh coaching staff to beat the All Blacks.
There were only 4 Welsh players starting. Johnathon davies Liam Williams and faletau were all at least as good as the other lions.
With regards to war button and 1/2p on the bench. Who would you have put on the bench instead?
The only real glaring issue I can see, where bias could reasonably be accused, is the additions from the wales squad mid tour.
prg1 said:
The only real glaring issue I can see, where bias could reasonably be accused, is the additions from the wales squad mid tour.
It could be argued that the accusation for the most glaring Welsh bias could made, one which has had a huge impact on everything else, was in the selection of Howley?Kermit power said:
prg1 said:
The only real glaring issue I can see, where bias could reasonably be accused, is the additions from the wales squad mid tour.
It could be argued that the accusation for the most glaring Welsh bias could made, one which has had a huge impact on everything else, was in the selection of Howley?finally managed to watch it after having to go to work today 
Cracking match!
Thoughts for the match and #2
Lawes for AWJ
I was disappointed with Toby F (I think it was ZinZan who ID'd him as going missing in games, went missing for large sections today)
Liam W had a standout 1st - but a couple of howlers to balance that
T'eo was very good
Itoje seemed to add something
Furlong wasn't really impressive
Daly/Watson good in flashes and overall solid
Cracking match!Thoughts for the match and #2
Lawes for AWJ
I was disappointed with Toby F (I think it was ZinZan who ID'd him as going missing in games, went missing for large sections today)
Liam W had a standout 1st - but a couple of howlers to balance that
T'eo was very good
Itoje seemed to add something
Furlong wasn't really impressive
Daly/Watson good in flashes and overall solid
iwantagta said:
Greg66 said:
So plan A: dominate up front, hasn't worked. And plan B can't be baked in a week. What's left?
Largely agree with what you have said. Plan A but better is the only option i see. We picked the forwards we did for lineouts and it didnt work. Not enough steals. I'd be looking at doing something a bit different and sticking the big tacklers in. Lawes, Itoje & maybe even Haskell. Front row might need a change around as well, focus on scrummagers rather than ball players maybe.
Its gonna be tough!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40392911
A bit like "we just have to run faster".
Well, yeah, that is generally recognised as the way to win a race. Actually being abe to conjure additional speed/strength/X factor out of nothing takes more than just recognising that's whats necessary.
irocfan said:
finally managed to watch it after having to go to work today Cracking match!
Thoughts for the match and #2
Lawes for AWJ
I was disappointed with Toby F (I think it was ZinZan who ID'd him as going missing in games, went missing for large sections today)
Liam W had a standout 1st - but a couple of howlers to balance that
T'eo was very good
Itoje seemed to add something
Furlong wasn't really impressive
Daly/Watson good in flashes and overall solid
Going to be very interesting to see how they play on Tuesday...I think the following all have a very strong shout at the Second Test 23. Cracking match!Thoughts for the match and #2
Lawes for AWJ
I was disappointed with Toby F (I think it was ZinZan who ID'd him as going missing in games, went missing for large sections today)
Liam W had a standout 1st - but a couple of howlers to balance that
T'eo was very good
Itoje seemed to add something
Furlong wasn't really impressive
Daly/Watson good in flashes and overall solid
CJ Stander
Cole
Lawes
I also think Tipuric and Haskell will be right up for it though I think Stander should get the nod....as I really don't think Warburton did enough to justify his place.
Can't remember who the Irish pundit was on Sky saying he thought Best should be brought in for his scrummaging and breakdown work.
Fair point about Toby F
Disappointed with the manner of the result (falling asleep at the wrong moments) but pleased that our backs rocked the ABs a bit. No disgrace in losing to a team of that quality who do the basics, the extraordinary and the dark arts better than anyone.
Think people are being a touch harsh on AWJ - he made 11 tackles in his 47 minutes at a 100% success rate and after he went off both the scrum and the defence noticeably deteriorated. Kruis was by far the worst lock on the pitch which was a shame given his warm up form.
Murray was very one dimensional - his box kicking was excellent but once we weren't getting any change from it he didn't know what to do.
Farrell was below par but it's hard to play well at 10 when the pack is going backwards!
JD was excellent, LW did what he does best (that blunder aside) and Sinckler was a bright spark when he came on.
Won't forget that Lions try!
Think people are being a touch harsh on AWJ - he made 11 tackles in his 47 minutes at a 100% success rate and after he went off both the scrum and the defence noticeably deteriorated. Kruis was by far the worst lock on the pitch which was a shame given his warm up form.
Murray was very one dimensional - his box kicking was excellent but once we weren't getting any change from it he didn't know what to do.
Farrell was below par but it's hard to play well at 10 when the pack is going backwards!
JD was excellent, LW did what he does best (that blunder aside) and Sinckler was a bright spark when he came on.
Won't forget that Lions try!
timster said:
I think faletau was too busy making tackles to be seen tbh, don't know his tackle rate though. Itoje isn't the answer as said scrum started failing after AWJ went off. I'd be tempted to put biggar on the bench instead of sexton or even Russell. Wouldn't tweak too much else
21 tackles, a match high. A great game in the tight but not so much in the loose - as you say, doing all the invisible work.Cheib said:
Players...
CJ Stander ... Uwotm8Cole ... Maybe. Is he the same side as Furlong? Furlong was a fat blowing lump. Anyone but Furlong. Sinckler? I'm obviously not a forward...cough
Lawes ... Not for me but can see Maro starting and him on bench after today.
Tips ... Bench outside possibility for his handling, maybe we need to fight AB fire with fire.
Haskell ... Lolwut
Best ... Hahahahahahahahaaaaaa
I'm not buying the AWJ being s
t narrative. The scrum went to st after he left, not before. Kruis did absolutely fk all today. I think both locks were poor but to single out AWJ is simply incorrect.We were blasted at the breakdown today by a combination of f
k all jackal from SOB and Peypers st reffing. I would drop POM next week and go with SOB at 6, Sam 7 and Faletau at 8. Poite will reward Sam's work.
Only managed to see the first half before family commitments dragged me away.
I thought it was an excellent performance, that clearly had room for improvement, but.....
This is the best team in the world, settled, honed, structured and with years of work behind it. Made to look decidedly average for moments by the visiting team.
Maybe I'm reading the wrong articles or listening to the wrong media, but too little is made of the inherent deficit of performance the Lions can always expect to suffer, regardless of how exceptional the individuals are and how good their form is.
I thought it was an excellent performance, that clearly had room for improvement, but.....
This is the best team in the world, settled, honed, structured and with years of work behind it. Made to look decidedly average for moments by the visiting team.
Maybe I'm reading the wrong articles or listening to the wrong media, but too little is made of the inherent deficit of performance the Lions can always expect to suffer, regardless of how exceptional the individuals are and how good their form is.
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