2017 Lions Tour

Author
Discussion

Legend83

9,947 posts

221 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
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I was off looking after Little-Ledge so managed to catch the game - and what a game!

Some selection headaches for Gatland now. Henderson and Lawes were imperious, Dan Cole was decent, and Biggar was very good.

Laidlaw was dreadful - I have never known an international scrum half to "pop" so many passes from ruck. The ball was wobbling in the air! Irrelevant I guess.

North will have been pleased to get on the ball a bit more despite having to move off the wing and I would still consider him a decent impact sub option.

My 15 for Saturday:

McGrath
Owens
Furlong
Itoje / Lawes
AWJ / Henderson
Tipuric
O'Brien
Faletau

Murray
Farrell (I'd pick Biggar after yesterday but it will be Faz)
Teo / Daly
JD
Watson
Daly / Seymour (think he'll be the unluckiest Lion wing of all time!)
Williams (1/2P just not enough in his attacking locker to worry the ABs)



DocJock

8,341 posts

239 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
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After that match, I'd be looking to how I can shoehorn Hendo, Lawes and Otoji into the starting XV. Shouldn't be too hard as they've all played at 6 previously. Tough on O'Mahony, but he can go on the bench.

Kruiz and AWJ are just not dynamic enough away from the set piece, in fact it looks like one tour too many for AWJ.

I'd keep the backs the same as the first test but keep Te'o on. His one up tackling is immense and he will bust the gain line repeatedly.

mikal83

5,340 posts

251 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
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After watching the match last night, the Lions are going to get stuffed. Bang crash rugby, then a mistake by the other team to try and get some points....that's all the lions are.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
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hornetrider said:
Schoolboy error from Nowell getting held up there ffs.
To be fair to Nowell he got his knee to the ground, but ref decided to ignore that

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
quotequote all
mikal83 said:
After watching the match last night, the Lions are going to get stuffed. Bang crash rugby, then a mistake by the other team to try and get some points....that's all the lions are.
A clear description of Gatlandball as it's known

Big E 118

2,408 posts

168 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
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I believe for the 2nd and 3rd test we have French referees.

Does anyone think this will influence the results? In the game yesterday I thought the French referee with his Northern Hemisphere take on offsides helped the Lions, obviously the number of penalties helped but it also gave the Lions a bit more space and they played more of their natural game. For the second half the 'canes adapted to the refereeing better.

I'm not writing this as a bitter Kiwi or knocking the ref but I think we all accept that there are differences in the style of refereeing between north and south and players are used to playing in a certain way (my non NZ family call it cheating when they lose wink ) I though JP refereed well in the first test but the AB's did get some leniency that they may not get in the following two tests.

Speaking to my Kiwi cousins who have been at most of the games yesterday they say that everyone is quite impressed with the quality of the Lions so far and feel that they are a real challenge to the AB's over the next couple of tests.

skahigh

2,023 posts

130 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
quotequote all
Big E 118 said:
I believe for the 2nd and 3rd test we have French referees.

Does anyone think this will influence the results? In the game yesterday I thought the French referee with his Northern Hemisphere take on offsides helped the Lions, obviously the number of penalties helped but it also gave the Lions a bit more space and they played more of their natural game. For the second half the 'canes adapted to the refereeing better.

I'm not writing this as a bitter Kiwi or knocking the ref but I think we all accept that there are differences in the style of refereeing between north and south and players are used to playing in a certain way (my non NZ family call it cheating when they lose wink ) I though JP refereed well in the first test but the AB's did get some leniency that they may not get in the following two tests.

Speaking to my Kiwi cousins who have been at most of the games yesterday they say that everyone is quite impressed with the quality of the Lions so far and feel that they are a real challenge to the AB's over the next couple of tests.
No, I think it will influence the pattern of the games but not the final outcome, the ABs are just too good.

It's very noticeable that so far on this tour the European refs have given numerous penalties against the Kiwi sides for little infringements (offside, not rolling away from tackles, stepping in front of runners off the ball, etc.) that they usually get away with in Super rugby. It's this playing right on the edge of the laws that usually helps teams to step from being very good to dominant (NZ for years, England WC winners, Ireland in recent years). These serve to disrupt the pattern of play for the sides not used to it and mean they struggle to get their momentum up, the game is played further up the pitch and the scoreboard is a bit closer than it otherwise might be.

DocJock

8,341 posts

239 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
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wsurfa said:
hornetrider said:
Schoolboy error from Nowell getting held up there ffs.
To be fair to Nowell he got his knee to the ground, but ref decided to ignore that
I saw that too. To be fair to the ref, it was on his blindside.

a311

5,789 posts

176 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
quotequote all
wsurfa said:
mikal83 said:
After watching the match last night, the Lions are going to get stuffed. Bang crash rugby, then a mistake by the other team to try and get some points....that's all the lions are.
A clear description of Gatlandball as it's known
Funny thing is Ian McGeechan actually came up with Warrenball for the 2009 Lions tour as a simple game plan the players could play to with a short time together. The basic concept as I understand it is narrow defenses then when they've been sucked in ship the ball out wide.

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
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New Zealand team to face the Lions in second Test:

15. Israel Dagg, 14. Waisake Naholo, 13. Anton Lienert-Brown, 12. Sonny Bill Williams, 11. Rieko Ioane, 10. Beauden Barrett, 9. Aaron Smith;

1. Joe Moody, 2. Codie Taylor, 3. Owen Franks, 4. Brodie Retallick, 5. Samuel Whitelock, 6. Jerome Kaino, 7. Sam Cane, 8. Kieran Read (capt).

Two injury related changes.

Cheib

23,111 posts

174 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
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I think there's too much focus on the 23 and who the Ref is going to be in some ways...the AB's beat the BIL last weekend not just because their forwards dominated but also because their coaches had a superior game plan...they tactically totally outplayed the Lions....the Lions rush defence which Farrell has done a fine job of drilling into them was almost totally negated by how the ABs played and then we seemed to make some substitutions which had been thought through the day before and not actually a reflection of what was happening on the pitch. The substitution of T'eo was mind boggling as was bringing 1/2p on when we needed tries.

DocJock

8,341 posts

239 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
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Totally agree about the T'eo subbing. Utter madness.

Cheib

23,111 posts

174 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017
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DocJock said:
Totally agree about the T'eo subbing. Utter madness.
It was very Stewart Lancaster...

custardtart

1,725 posts

252 months

Thursday 29th June 2017
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Bizarre selection for the 2nd Test. T'eo was the stand out player and had a blossoming partnership with JD so to start with Sex/Faz combo Is not a pick on form.
The other really odd one is AWJ who has clearly been the least effective Lock on Tour but somehow retains his place.
Every person I know and pundit said AWJ had to be out but there he is.

DocJock

8,341 posts

239 months

Thursday 29th June 2017
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Yup. The descent into madness is complete.

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Thursday 29th June 2017
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Can't believe they've gone Sexton Farrell.

skahigh

2,023 posts

130 months

Thursday 29th June 2017
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This AWJ thing is being overblown on here, Jerry Guscott doesn't agree that he should be dropped.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40419289

The truth is that none of the second rows have been very impressive on tour, the exception for me being Henderson, who was immense against the Hurricanes.

DocJock

8,341 posts

239 months

Thursday 29th June 2017
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And yet Henderson doesn't even make the 23.

I disagree with JG, AWJ has been poor all year, not just on this tour, and imo shouldn't have been in the squad at all. I said so when the squad was announced,

skahigh

2,023 posts

130 months

Thursday 29th June 2017
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I agree, he was once one of the best locks in world rugby, not so any more.

However, it doesn't follow that everyone should get frothy about just him, kruis had an utter stinker in the first test but it hardly gets mentioned.

768

13,601 posts

95 months

Thursday 29th June 2017
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El stovey said:
That's not that impressive really. I'd expect the best players from 4 different rugby nations to beat the all blacks easily with a couple of years together. That's why the lions isn't easy, because they only get a few weeks to form a team.
If that's the case, surely you have to question the sanity of using the first match games on tour to give everyone a run out and leave them with no certainty of who to train with?

Admittedly, that's probably just one aspect of the selection issues on this tour.