2017 Lions Tour
Discussion
I was off looking after Little-Ledge so managed to catch the game - and what a game!
Some selection headaches for Gatland now. Henderson and Lawes were imperious, Dan Cole was decent, and Biggar was very good.
Laidlaw was dreadful - I have never known an international scrum half to "pop" so many passes from ruck. The ball was wobbling in the air! Irrelevant I guess.
North will have been pleased to get on the ball a bit more despite having to move off the wing and I would still consider him a decent impact sub option.
My 15 for Saturday:
McGrath
Owens
Furlong
Itoje / Lawes
AWJ / Henderson
Tipuric
O'Brien
Faletau
Murray
Farrell (I'd pick Biggar after yesterday but it will be Faz)
Teo / Daly
JD
Watson
Daly / Seymour (think he'll be the unluckiest Lion wing of all time!)
Williams (1/2P just not enough in his attacking locker to worry the ABs)
Some selection headaches for Gatland now. Henderson and Lawes were imperious, Dan Cole was decent, and Biggar was very good.
Laidlaw was dreadful - I have never known an international scrum half to "pop" so many passes from ruck. The ball was wobbling in the air! Irrelevant I guess.
North will have been pleased to get on the ball a bit more despite having to move off the wing and I would still consider him a decent impact sub option.
My 15 for Saturday:
McGrath
Owens
Furlong
Itoje / Lawes
AWJ / Henderson
Tipuric
O'Brien
Faletau
Murray
Farrell (I'd pick Biggar after yesterday but it will be Faz)
Teo / Daly
JD
Watson
Daly / Seymour (think he'll be the unluckiest Lion wing of all time!)
Williams (1/2P just not enough in his attacking locker to worry the ABs)
After that match, I'd be looking to how I can shoehorn Hendo, Lawes and Otoji into the starting XV. Shouldn't be too hard as they've all played at 6 previously. Tough on O'Mahony, but he can go on the bench.
Kruiz and AWJ are just not dynamic enough away from the set piece, in fact it looks like one tour too many for AWJ.
I'd keep the backs the same as the first test but keep Te'o on. His one up tackling is immense and he will bust the gain line repeatedly.
Kruiz and AWJ are just not dynamic enough away from the set piece, in fact it looks like one tour too many for AWJ.
I'd keep the backs the same as the first test but keep Te'o on. His one up tackling is immense and he will bust the gain line repeatedly.
I believe for the 2nd and 3rd test we have French referees.
Does anyone think this will influence the results? In the game yesterday I thought the French referee with his Northern Hemisphere take on offsides helped the Lions, obviously the number of penalties helped but it also gave the Lions a bit more space and they played more of their natural game. For the second half the 'canes adapted to the refereeing better.
I'm not writing this as a bitter Kiwi or knocking the ref but I think we all accept that there are differences in the style of refereeing between north and south and players are used to playing in a certain way (my non NZ family call it cheating when they lose ) I though JP refereed well in the first test but the AB's did get some leniency that they may not get in the following two tests.
Speaking to my Kiwi cousins who have been at most of the games yesterday they say that everyone is quite impressed with the quality of the Lions so far and feel that they are a real challenge to the AB's over the next couple of tests.
Does anyone think this will influence the results? In the game yesterday I thought the French referee with his Northern Hemisphere take on offsides helped the Lions, obviously the number of penalties helped but it also gave the Lions a bit more space and they played more of their natural game. For the second half the 'canes adapted to the refereeing better.
I'm not writing this as a bitter Kiwi or knocking the ref but I think we all accept that there are differences in the style of refereeing between north and south and players are used to playing in a certain way (my non NZ family call it cheating when they lose ) I though JP refereed well in the first test but the AB's did get some leniency that they may not get in the following two tests.
Speaking to my Kiwi cousins who have been at most of the games yesterday they say that everyone is quite impressed with the quality of the Lions so far and feel that they are a real challenge to the AB's over the next couple of tests.
Big E 118 said:
I believe for the 2nd and 3rd test we have French referees.
Does anyone think this will influence the results? In the game yesterday I thought the French referee with his Northern Hemisphere take on offsides helped the Lions, obviously the number of penalties helped but it also gave the Lions a bit more space and they played more of their natural game. For the second half the 'canes adapted to the refereeing better.
I'm not writing this as a bitter Kiwi or knocking the ref but I think we all accept that there are differences in the style of refereeing between north and south and players are used to playing in a certain way (my non NZ family call it cheating when they lose ) I though JP refereed well in the first test but the AB's did get some leniency that they may not get in the following two tests.
Speaking to my Kiwi cousins who have been at most of the games yesterday they say that everyone is quite impressed with the quality of the Lions so far and feel that they are a real challenge to the AB's over the next couple of tests.
No, I think it will influence the pattern of the games but not the final outcome, the ABs are just too good.Does anyone think this will influence the results? In the game yesterday I thought the French referee with his Northern Hemisphere take on offsides helped the Lions, obviously the number of penalties helped but it also gave the Lions a bit more space and they played more of their natural game. For the second half the 'canes adapted to the refereeing better.
I'm not writing this as a bitter Kiwi or knocking the ref but I think we all accept that there are differences in the style of refereeing between north and south and players are used to playing in a certain way (my non NZ family call it cheating when they lose ) I though JP refereed well in the first test but the AB's did get some leniency that they may not get in the following two tests.
Speaking to my Kiwi cousins who have been at most of the games yesterday they say that everyone is quite impressed with the quality of the Lions so far and feel that they are a real challenge to the AB's over the next couple of tests.
It's very noticeable that so far on this tour the European refs have given numerous penalties against the Kiwi sides for little infringements (offside, not rolling away from tackles, stepping in front of runners off the ball, etc.) that they usually get away with in Super rugby. It's this playing right on the edge of the laws that usually helps teams to step from being very good to dominant (NZ for years, England WC winners, Ireland in recent years). These serve to disrupt the pattern of play for the sides not used to it and mean they struggle to get their momentum up, the game is played further up the pitch and the scoreboard is a bit closer than it otherwise might be.
wsurfa said:
mikal83 said:
After watching the match last night, the Lions are going to get stuffed. Bang crash rugby, then a mistake by the other team to try and get some points....that's all the lions are.
A clear description of Gatlandball as it's knownNew Zealand team to face the Lions in second Test:
15. Israel Dagg, 14. Waisake Naholo, 13. Anton Lienert-Brown, 12. Sonny Bill Williams, 11. Rieko Ioane, 10. Beauden Barrett, 9. Aaron Smith;
1. Joe Moody, 2. Codie Taylor, 3. Owen Franks, 4. Brodie Retallick, 5. Samuel Whitelock, 6. Jerome Kaino, 7. Sam Cane, 8. Kieran Read (capt).
Two injury related changes.
15. Israel Dagg, 14. Waisake Naholo, 13. Anton Lienert-Brown, 12. Sonny Bill Williams, 11. Rieko Ioane, 10. Beauden Barrett, 9. Aaron Smith;
1. Joe Moody, 2. Codie Taylor, 3. Owen Franks, 4. Brodie Retallick, 5. Samuel Whitelock, 6. Jerome Kaino, 7. Sam Cane, 8. Kieran Read (capt).
Two injury related changes.
I think there's too much focus on the 23 and who the Ref is going to be in some ways...the AB's beat the BIL last weekend not just because their forwards dominated but also because their coaches had a superior game plan...they tactically totally outplayed the Lions....the Lions rush defence which Farrell has done a fine job of drilling into them was almost totally negated by how the ABs played and then we seemed to make some substitutions which had been thought through the day before and not actually a reflection of what was happening on the pitch. The substitution of T'eo was mind boggling as was bringing 1/2p on when we needed tries.
Bizarre selection for the 2nd Test. T'eo was the stand out player and had a blossoming partnership with JD so to start with Sex/Faz combo Is not a pick on form.
The other really odd one is AWJ who has clearly been the least effective Lock on Tour but somehow retains his place.
Every person I know and pundit said AWJ had to be out but there he is.
The other really odd one is AWJ who has clearly been the least effective Lock on Tour but somehow retains his place.
Every person I know and pundit said AWJ had to be out but there he is.
This AWJ thing is being overblown on here, Jerry Guscott doesn't agree that he should be dropped.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40419289
The truth is that none of the second rows have been very impressive on tour, the exception for me being Henderson, who was immense against the Hurricanes.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40419289
The truth is that none of the second rows have been very impressive on tour, the exception for me being Henderson, who was immense against the Hurricanes.
El stovey said:
That's not that impressive really. I'd expect the best players from 4 different rugby nations to beat the all blacks easily with a couple of years together. That's why the lions isn't easy, because they only get a few weeks to form a team.
If that's the case, surely you have to question the sanity of using the first match games on tour to give everyone a run out and leave them with no certainty of who to train with?Admittedly, that's probably just one aspect of the selection issues on this tour.
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