General rugby thread
Discussion
DocJock said:
I'm guessing pay cuts will be the option.
The other Premiership sides all have their marquee signings done, and going abroad would lose them their England places (and match fees)
Hmmm, tend to agree - squads / budgets / salaries will have been set now for next year, so unless there are high profile retirements in the other Prem squads, a few of the Sarries players may end up with nowhere to go.The other Premiership sides all have their marquee signings done, and going abroad would lose them their England places (and match fees)
oh, wait; the French will pay for them.........................
JonChalk said:
Sarries need to let some players go, or do the equivalent by lowering pay and effectively driving highly paid players elsewhere
New (old) chief exec Edward Griffiths makes it pretty clear that the two prime options are staff reductions and/or pay cuts. No other costcutting measures apparently suggested in article / quotes.
Discussed on BT Sport's GP Tonight on Sunday, and on the BBC today:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51013178
I don't quite understand how they're going to be able to do it?New (old) chief exec Edward Griffiths makes it pretty clear that the two prime options are staff reductions and/or pay cuts. No other costcutting measures apparently suggested in article / quotes.
Discussed on BT Sport's GP Tonight on Sunday, and on the BBC today:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51013178
My employer can always make me redundant, but I'm not on a fixed term sporting contract. I would've thought that for the playing squad, if the club tries to tell them they've got to take a pay cut, they'll just point to their nice signed contract and politely decline?
The only way I can see of them managing it is to effectively pay off players' contracts and put them on gardening leave so they're not counted as being in the squad, but even then would the players accept? Maybe if they're in their last season they would, but anyone with thoughts of international honours and future club contracts isn't going to be prepared to sit on their arses and not play, are they?
Kermit power said:
I don't quite understand how they're going to be able to do it?
My employer can always make me redundant, but I'm not on a fixed term sporting contract. I would've thought that for the playing squad, if the club tries to tell them they've got to take a pay cut, they'll just point to their nice signed contract and politely decline?
The only way I can see of them managing it is to effectively pay off players' contracts and put them on gardening leave so they're not counted as being in the squad, but even then would the players accept? Maybe if they're in their last season they would, but anyone with thoughts of international honours and future club contracts isn't going to be prepared to sit on their arses and not play, are they?
Depends on the contract / mechanism, I guess.My employer can always make me redundant, but I'm not on a fixed term sporting contract. I would've thought that for the playing squad, if the club tries to tell them they've got to take a pay cut, they'll just point to their nice signed contract and politely decline?
The only way I can see of them managing it is to effectively pay off players' contracts and put them on gardening leave so they're not counted as being in the squad, but even then would the players accept? Maybe if they're in their last season they would, but anyone with thoughts of international honours and future club contracts isn't going to be prepared to sit on their arses and not play, are they?
F1 drivers (for tax and other reasons) are not usually employees of the teams - they set themselves up as ltd cos, and are effectively sub-contractors.
If, as tax / salary / cap (dodgy) dealings, some of the players are not full employees, but are sub-contracted..........?
JonChalk said:
Kermit power said:
I don't quite understand how they're going to be able to do it?
My employer can always make me redundant, but I'm not on a fixed term sporting contract. I would've thought that for the playing squad, if the club tries to tell them they've got to take a pay cut, they'll just point to their nice signed contract and politely decline?
The only way I can see of them managing it is to effectively pay off players' contracts and put them on gardening leave so they're not counted as being in the squad, but even then would the players accept? Maybe if they're in their last season they would, but anyone with thoughts of international honours and future club contracts isn't going to be prepared to sit on their arses and not play, are they?
Depends on the contract / mechanism, I guess.My employer can always make me redundant, but I'm not on a fixed term sporting contract. I would've thought that for the playing squad, if the club tries to tell them they've got to take a pay cut, they'll just point to their nice signed contract and politely decline?
The only way I can see of them managing it is to effectively pay off players' contracts and put them on gardening leave so they're not counted as being in the squad, but even then would the players accept? Maybe if they're in their last season they would, but anyone with thoughts of international honours and future club contracts isn't going to be prepared to sit on their arses and not play, are they?
F1 drivers (for tax and other reasons) are not usually employees of the teams - they set themselves up as ltd cos, and are effectively sub-contractors.
If, as tax / salary / cap (dodgy) dealings, some of the players are not full employees, but are sub-contracted..........?
However I could be miles off as not a tax expert. I'm sure someone far more informed will have a better idea
JonChalk said:
DocJock said:
I'm guessing pay cuts will be the option.
The other Premiership sides all have their marquee signings done, and going abroad would lose them their England places (and match fees)
Hmmm, tend to agree - squads / budgets / salaries will have been set now for next year, so unless there are high profile retirements in the other Prem squads, a few of the Sarries players may end up with nowhere to go.The other Premiership sides all have their marquee signings done, and going abroad would lose them their England places (and match fees)
oh, wait; the French will pay for them.........................
So while the English clubs are restricted in their squad selection by a salary cap, designed to ensure greater parity between Premiership clubs, how does this help the English clubs compete effectively in Europe?
Dermot O'Logical said:
And the French don't have a salary cap, do they?
So while the English clubs are restricted in their squad selection by a salary cap, designed to ensure greater parity between Premiership clubs, how does this help the English clubs compete effectively in Europe?
The French do have a salary cap of around £10m. Once you take into account things like credits for academy players, internationals and injuries, there apparently isn't a huge difference between the Premiership and the Top 14.So while the English clubs are restricted in their squad selection by a salary cap, designed to ensure greater parity between Premiership clubs, how does this help the English clubs compete effectively in Europe?
The Irish provinces, on the other hand, have player budgets of around £6m each, yet still manage to be heading two of the four Champions Cup groups at the moment.
It's not all about the money in my view.
The Irish provinces have no salary cap, but are thought to pay £6M, but no figures have been released.
A large number of the Irish national team players play rarely for their province unless they are important Champions Cup games.
There is no level playing field in Europe, the Premiership salary cap is aimed at making it more competitive in the Premiership, so that one high spending team doesn't win everything. Oh wait..
A large number of the Irish national team players play rarely for their province unless they are important Champions Cup games.
There is no level playing field in Europe, the Premiership salary cap is aimed at making it more competitive in the Premiership, so that one high spending team doesn't win everything. Oh wait..
Kermit power said:
The French do have a salary cap of around £10m. Once you take into account things like credits for academy players, internationals and injuries, there apparently isn't a huge difference between the Premiership and the Top 14.
The Irish provinces, on the other hand, have player budgets of around £6m each, yet still manage to be heading two of the four Champions Cup groups at the moment.
It's not all about the money in my view.
Where do you get that, - below are the commonly available 2018 player salary figures for the top 5 paying French top 14 clubs:The Irish provinces, on the other hand, have player budgets of around £6m each, yet still manage to be heading two of the four Champions Cup groups at the moment.
It's not all about the money in my view.
Stade Francais €34m to Agen's
Clermont Auvergne (€32.5m)
Toulouse (€32m)
Toulon (€30m)
Lyon (€29.8m)
Makes you think that Sarries did remarkably well in Europe on the budget they did!
prand said:
Kermit power said:
The French do have a salary cap of around £10m. Once you take into account things like credits for academy players, internationals and injuries, there apparently isn't a huge difference between the Premiership and the Top 14.
The Irish provinces, on the other hand, have player budgets of around £6m each, yet still manage to be heading two of the four Champions Cup groups at the moment.
It's not all about the money in my view.
Where do you get that, - below are the commonly available 2018 player salary figures for the top 5 paying French top 14 clubs:The Irish provinces, on the other hand, have player budgets of around £6m each, yet still manage to be heading two of the four Champions Cup groups at the moment.
It's not all about the money in my view.
Stade Francais €34m to Agen's
Clermont Auvergne (€32.5m)
Toulouse (€32m)
Toulon (€30m)
Lyon (€29.8m)
Makes you think that Sarries did remarkably well in Europe on the budget they did!
prand said:
Kermit power said:
The French do have a salary cap of around £10m. Once you take into account things like credits for academy players, internationals and injuries, there apparently isn't a huge difference between the Premiership and the Top 14.
The Irish provinces, on the other hand, have player budgets of around £6m each, yet still manage to be heading two of the four Champions Cup groups at the moment.
It's not all about the money in my view.
Where do you get that, - below are the commonly available 2018 player salary figures for the top 5 paying French top 14 clubs:The Irish provinces, on the other hand, have player budgets of around £6m each, yet still manage to be heading two of the four Champions Cup groups at the moment.
It's not all about the money in my view.
Stade Francais €34m to Agen's
Clermont Auvergne (€32.5m)
Toulouse (€32m)
Toulon (€30m)
Lyon (€29.8m)
Makes you think that Sarries did remarkably well in Europe on the budget they did!
Full details on the French cap for 2019/20 here.
The cap for this season is €11.3M, although clubs can receive an additional €200k per annum for French internationals, and they also don't have to count the salaries of Academy players on less than €50k per annum. This allows Clermont Auvergne to top the list with an actual wage bill - perfectly within the rules - of €13.1M, so I was out of date in thinking there was little difference between there and here.
schmalex said:
It’s still not a lot of money for a full squad. Clearly, it shouldn’t go the way of football salaries but there should be an ability for a top professional to fund a long retirement through playing
Should there be, really?If you're a professional rugby player, you're going to retire at what, 35? Maybe 40 in some cases? Can you even imagine being retired for maybe 50 years? Also, just how much would you have to earn over a maybe 15 year professional career to fund a 50 year retirement?
More realistically, professional rugby players should be paid enough to save enough to set them up in a career for the rest of their lives. For the odd few that could well be as a rugby pundit, for others it might be going into coaching, but for the remainder, you'd hope they could retire from the game with their mortgage paid off, enough of a lump sump to cover all their costs to head off to Uni, and being well on their way to funding their actual retirement 30-odd years later.
Kermit power said:
More realistically, professional rugby players should be paid enough to save enough to set them up in a career for the rest of their lives. For the odd few that could well be as a rugby pundit, for others it might be going into coaching, but for the remainder, you'd hope they could retire from the game with their mortgage paid off, enough of a lump sump to cover all their costs to head off to Uni, and being well on their way to funding their actual retirement 30-odd years later.
Jamie Roberts showed how it should be done.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Roberts
The Mad Monk said:
Kermit power said:
More realistically, professional rugby players should be paid enough to save enough to set them up in a career for the rest of their lives. For the odd few that could well be as a rugby pundit, for others it might be going into coaching, but for the remainder, you'd hope they could retire from the game with their mortgage paid off, enough of a lump sump to cover all their costs to head off to Uni, and being well on their way to funding their actual retirement 30-odd years later.
Jamie Roberts showed how it should be done.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Roberts
At one point, Tom was being spoken of as a future England Captain. It could be said that his career was luckily cut soo short and too early that this allowed him to jump straight to Medical School. Also a thoroughly charming young chap!
The Mad Monk said:
Watched the game between Ospreys and Saracens on t'elly yesterday. Despite losing a prop in the first five minutes - red card - and a yellow card later, Saracens beat Ospreys 22-15.
Why were there so few people there? The Telegraph says 7,000, but it looked even less than that.
It meant nothing to Ospreys, so little local interest. That sort of attendance isn't too bad for welsh regional rugby, which is in big financial trouble.Why were there so few people there? The Telegraph says 7,000, but it looked even less than that.
df76 said:
The Mad Monk said:
Watched the game between Ospreys and Saracens on t'elly yesterday. Despite losing a prop in the first five minutes - red card - and a yellow card later, Saracens beat Ospreys 22-15.
Why were there so few people there? The Telegraph says 7,000, but it looked even less than that.
It meant nothing to Ospreys, so little local interest. That sort of attendance isn't too bad for welsh regional rugby, which is in big financial trouble.Why were there so few people there? The Telegraph says 7,000, but it looked even less than that.
JonChalk said:
df76 said:
The Mad Monk said:
Watched the game between Ospreys and Saracens on t'elly yesterday. Despite losing a prop in the first five minutes - red card - and a yellow card later, Saracens beat Ospreys 22-15.
Why were there so few people there? The Telegraph says 7,000, but it looked even less than that.
It meant nothing to Ospreys, so little local interest. That sort of attendance isn't too bad for welsh regional rugby, which is in big financial trouble.Why were there so few people there? The Telegraph says 7,000, but it looked even less than that.
Gassing Station | Sports | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff