The Golf Thread - 2018!

[soupdragon1]

Blackpuddin said:

Any 'can't fail' tips for getting out of bunkers? I am totally flummoxed by them and generally waste 3-4 shots in them every time. Had a lesson on them earlier in the week and watched the pro show me how easy it was, but for some reason I have got myself into a mental state where I cannot do it. Usually hit the ball not the sand, or far too much sand, both with predictable results. Pro tried to get me swinging straight up and back rather than round the back, leaning forward not back (which is what I've been doing to 'help the club', aargh), keeping the face straight not open, taking the wrists out of it, but nothing works for me. Ran out of time in the lesson but no nearer to a solution. Practiced what he told me this afternoon using a 56 on his recommendation but still no luck. Nobody else in my group seems to have this problem!!

You know the way we are all told to keep our eye on the ball? DON'T do that in the bunker! You should pick a little blemish, grain of sand behind the ball and stare at that, as that's what you want to hit, not the ball.

Always look at your entry point in the sand rather than the ball, with the view that all you are doing is sweeping under the ball. And accelerate through, commit to the stroke. If that doesn't work, just practice without a ball, trying to take a hand-sized amount of sand each time. Its quite easy once you get the hang of it, its just about getting over that initial hurdle.

[Blackpuddin]

Ooh re the old boys playing with hosepipe clubs, that's a bit harsh, I'm 65 this year and I whack it as far as most of the other lads in my group apart from the ones in their 20s! Regular shaft driver.

[Blackpuddin]

Thanks for the bunker tip above, I do try to concentrate on the sand but the bloomin ball always intrudes! I can do it because I eventually get it out after 2-3 fails and Im not thinking about it any more, just swinging naturally. Brain lock.

[WinkleHoff]

The thing is though much of golf is about percentages. Always have a chuckle when everyone reaches for the driver whenever they can. They don't even know how far they hit their 3w and 5w by comparison. Their fade is accentuated with the driver, so they are losing distance, but they just don't go for the shorter clubs. Maybe the big head of a driver gives confidence at address, I don't know. Henrik Stenson bagged his driver in favour of 3w. Lots of the fairway woods have a very hot face as well, and it's also easier to shape the ball, and hit low shots that run for miles in the summer....

[soupdragon1]

Blackpuddin said:

What do we think is the hardest shot in golf?

Good question!
For me, its the little 20 yard chip out from under trees. I don't have a problem playing the shot, but its the hardest shot because I struggle to reign in the desire to play the miracle shot instead
The amount of times I've stood over that shot, with the ghost of Seve chirping in my ear saying 'go for it - you can do it!' and then I say to myself 'I should really just take my medicine and chip this back into play' I find it hard to play that sensible chip out.

With that said, no guts, no glory - you can't sit in the bar afterwards and relive that joyous moment when you chipped out onto the fairway....but if you managed to nail the miracle shot....

[WinkleHoff]

Without doubt the hardest shot in golf is the down hill chip/pitch off a tight/deadpan lie over a bunker, to a tight pin. You can't even go at it. Yuck. Knowing these godforsaken locations seriously influences me bailing out sometimes of the tee.

[yorky500]

Blackpuddin said:

Ooh re the old boys playing with hosepipe clubs, that's a bit harsh, I'm 65 this year and I whack it as far as most of the other lads in my group apart from the ones in their 20s! Regular shaft driver.

I did not mean to cause any offence and I know, it is a massive "generalisation" of those over 60. Hell I will be 60 in 6 years time, so I will be able to judge myself then! hahahahaha

[SpeckledJim]

Blackpuddin said:

Any 'can't fail' tips for getting out of bunkers? I am totally flummoxed by them and generally waste 3-4 shots in them every time. Had a lesson on them earlier in the week and watched the pro show me how easy it was, but for some reason I have got myself into a mental state where I cannot do it. Usually hit the ball not the sand, or far too much sand, both with predictable results. Pro tried to get me swinging straight up and back rather than round the back, leaning forward not back (which is what I've been doing to 'help the club', aargh), keeping the face straight not open, taking the wrists out of it, but nothing works for me. Ran out of time in the lesson but no nearer to a solution. Practiced what he told me this afternoon using a 56 on his recommendation but still no luck. Nobody else in my group seems to have this problem!!

I don't know about 'can't fail' but it's important to try to match the amount of 'splash' you're attempting to the quality and dampness of the sand.

Trying to take a lot of sand, when it's very wet and hard packed will mean your club will be either stopping or bouncing back upwards by the time you reach the ball, and you're likely to blade it or chunk it.

Save the big soft splash for when the sand is dry, and when you can tell with your feet that you've got at least a few inches of non-packed sand beneath the ball. You've not going to take those few inches, but IMO they want to be there.

When the bunker is either hard-packed or insufficiently filled, and I don't need a lot of height, I'll sometimes completely abandon all aspects of a normal bunker shot, and with a pitching wedge just clip the ball off the top. Pitching wedge is better than a sand wedge for this as the trailing edge is higher, so won't be impeded by any sand that you do take, and because you don't need any bounce.

Trying to splash a ball off a hard deck is possible, but your margin for error is extremely small as all an open sand wedge wants to do is bounce, and the leading edge is already well off the ground even in the static condition.

[Busa mav]

Thanks for the feedback on the driver guys, much appreciated, you don't offend me, I need true honest feedback, harsh or not.

I have resisted using the driver I have on the course yet, its an old small headed Wilson.
Somebody had suggested to me that I shouldn't bother taking anything longer than the 5 to the course, which is what I have been doing.

Now having played a total of 45 holes in my golfing career

My 6 iron, which I tee off with is often alongside the young ( 40) guys I play with, using their drivers

First time I went to the course, I dropped it next to the pin at 174 yards on a par 3. I haven't managed that again , yet

Presently visiting the range 3 times a week, but just cant seem to carry that "feel " I have when I swing there, to the course. I suspect I am trying to overhit it.

Playing 18 holes tomorrow so hopefully will see some improvement again.

[bodhi]

WinkleHoff said:

The thing is though much of golf is about percentages. Always have a chuckle when everyone reaches for the driver whenever they can. They don't even know how far they hit their 3w and 5w by comparison. Their fade is accentuated with the driver, so they are losing distance, but they just don't go for the shorter clubs. Maybe the big head of a driver gives confidence at address, I don't know. Henrik Stenson bagged his driver in favour of 3w. Lots of the fairway woods have a very hot face as well, and it's also easier to shape the ball, and hit low shots that run for miles in the summer....

Must admit the more I hear this argument and the more I play the less I agree with it, mostly as every golfer is different. Some people are wild with the drvier and should put it away, yes - me for most of last season, for instance , but for others the Driver is the straightest club in the bag - if you can hit it, you should imo.

PS Stenson does still carry a Driver, just doesn't use it that often, as he hits his (strong) 3 wood far enough. I've tried to emulate this by building a beast of a 3 wood (put an X Flex shaft in my Vapor Fly), but my Driver is still 20-30 yards longer. That could be the difference between reaching a par 5 in 2 or not, or going for a pin with a 7 iron rather than a 5.

[Blackpuddin]

yorky500 said:

Blackpuddin said:

Ooh re the old boys playing with hosepipe clubs, that's a bit harsh, I'm 65 this year and I whack it as far as most of the other lads in my group apart from the ones in their 20s! Regular shaft driver.

I did not mean to cause any offence and I know, it is a massive "generalisation" of those over 60. Hell I will be 60 in 6 years time, so I will be able to judge myself then! hahahahaha

Whippersnapper!

[Blackpuddin]

SpeckledJim said:

I don't know about 'can't fail' but it's important to try to match the amount of 'splash' you're attempting to the quality and dampness of the sand.

Trying to take a lot of sand, when it's very wet and hard packed will mean your club will be either stopping or bouncing back upwards by the time you reach the ball, and you're likely to blade it or chunk it.

Save the big soft splash for when the sand is dry, and when you can tell with your feet that you've got at least a few inches of non-packed sand beneath the ball. You've not going to take those few inches, but IMO they want to be there.

When the bunker is either hard-packed or insufficiently filled, and I don't need a lot of height, I'll sometimes completely abandon all aspects of a normal bunker shot, and with a pitching wedge just clip the ball off the top. Pitching wedge is better than a sand wedge for this as the trailing edge is higher, so won't be impeded by any sand that you do take, and because you don't need any bounce.

Trying to splash a ball off a hard deck is possible, but your margin for error is extremely small as all an open sand wedge wants to do is bounce, and the leading edge is already well off the ground even in the static condition.

Jim, thank you so much for this, you're describing our course bunkers and my main problem perfectly and making me feel a bit less inadequate! The practice bunker is even worse in terms of sand quality. If there's any chance of nipping it off rather than splashing I'll take it. One or two bunkers here have been filled with new grey sand which is somewhat lighter and easier to get out of.

[SpeckledJim]

Busa mav said:

Thanks for the feedback on the driver guys, much appreciated, you don't offend me, I need true honest feedback, harsh or not.

I have resisted using the driver I have on the course yet, its an old small headed Wilson.
Somebody had suggested to me that I shouldn't bother taking anything longer than the 5 to the course, which is what I have been doing.

Now having played a total of 45 holes in my golfing career

My 6 iron, which I tee off with is often alongside the young ( 40) guys I play with, using their drivers

First time I went to the course, I dropped it next to the pin at 174 yards on a par 3. I haven't managed that again , yet

Presently visiting the range 3 times a week, but just cant seem to carry that "feel " I have when I swing there, to the course. I suspect I am trying to overhit it.

Playing 18 holes tomorrow so hopefully will see some improvement again.

Great attitude, IMO.

I would echo the advice about the 5. Try to keep in mind, especially when playing with better players, that YOUR job is to get YOUR ball round in the lowest number of shots that YOU can manage.

That means, almost certainly, choosing different clubs and different shots to your playing partners, who are attempting the same task, but with an entirely different set of talents (for better or worse).

Playing your way, you can take a 6 on a par 5 by choosing 5 wood, 7 iron, 7 iron, pitch, putt, putt. That's not too difficult a thing to accomplish, and means you're playing a standard of golf that is welcome on literally any course in the world.

Rory McIlroy does a Par 5 this way: Driver, 9 iron, putt, putt. Yet if you try the same, you're likely going to shoot 8, 10, 12, and probably doing everyone's head in looking for your ball all the time.

TLDR: Forget all about Rory McIlroy. Play YOUR ball YOUR way with the shot choices and clubs YOU can hit. As you improve, those will change.

[Blackpuddin]

This is golden stuff.

[soupdragon1]

Busa mav said:

Thanks for the feedback on the driver guys, much appreciated, you don't offend me, I need true honest feedback, harsh or not.

I have resisted using the driver I have on the course yet, its an old small headed Wilson.
Somebody had suggested to me that I shouldn't bother taking anything longer than the 5 to the course, which is what I have been doing.

Now having played a total of 45 holes in my golfing career

My 6 iron, which I tee off with is often alongside the young ( 40) guys I play with, using their drivers

First time I went to the course, I dropped it next to the pin at 174 yards on a par 3. I haven't managed that again , yet

Presently visiting the range 3 times a week, but just cant seem to carry that "feel " I have when I swing there, to the course. I suspect I am trying to overhit it.

Playing 18 holes tomorrow so hopefully will see some improvement again.

Its a lot easier to hit off a range mat than off the ground at the golf course. If you hit a little bit behind the ball, you can get away with at the range, but not on the course. Part of that 'feel' could be set up. By default, a range mat is square, which aids alignment, and you're always hitting the same direction.

I would sometimes move the mat at an angle so that I don't get that 'free alignment aid' which means that you are 'always' practicing getting yourself lined up properly, rather than having the mat helping you. Getting yourself to a position where you get your posture and alignment the same every time you address the ball is quite difficult and is often overlooked so don't take the freebie that you get from the range mat.
And mix up your targets on the range can help to, rather than just aiming straight up the middle each time. In a nutshell, trying to get the range session as close as you can to a typical day on the golf course can only aid in getting to the point where you bring your range game to the course.

It might seem a bit strange but if you know your golf course like the back of your hand, you can even replicate playing the course when you are on the range. Eg, taking your driver and if you pull it left, imagine where that might have ended up on your own course. And then imagine the shot to the green you are left with. And if its a low punch shot to avoid hitting some overhanging branches, then go ahead and just hit that shot - for me, it keeps the concentration going and makes it a bit more fun, rather than just hitting full shot after full shot. It also means you are practicing the 'non standard' shots too. It might not be for everyone but I would do that on occasions just to mix it up a bit.

[SpeckledJim]

Blackpuddin said:

Jim, thank you so much for this, you're describing our course bunkers and my main problem perfectly and making me feel a bit less inadequate! The practice bunker is even worse in terms of sand quality. If there's any chance of nipping it off rather than splashing I'll take it. One or two bunkers here have been filled with new grey sand which is somewhat lighter and easier to get out of.

I'd encourage you not to be embarrassed to play a clip-off-the-top in a bad bunker. It's a canny shot to deploy when circumstances dictate. Whilst not pretty it has a low level of risk, if you can control the height of the clubhead through the ball well. Because you're dealing with less loft, you also need less clubhead speed, which helps the accuracy of the 'clip'. To that end, an 8 iron is even better, if you don't need the height.

You almost never see it on TV, but they're playing out of well-maintained bunkers with sand like talcum powder, and usually in the dry.

[soupdragon1]

SpeckledJim said:

I'd encourage you not to be embarrassed to play a clip-off-the-top in a bad bunker. It's a canny shot to deploy when circumstances dictate. Whilst not pretty it has a low level of risk, if you can control the height of the clubhead through the ball well. Because you're dealing with less loft, you also need less clubhead speed, which helps the accuracy of the 'clip'. To that end, an 8 iron is even better, if you don't need the height.

You almost never see it on TV, but they're playing out of well-maintained bunkers with sand like talcum powder, and usually in the dry.

Thats a cracking shot to have in your back pocket and absolutely no shame in it at all. And as long as you get the ball before sand, its going to be a good rescue tool for those dodgy bunkers.
And if you manage to clip it just right, it'll also come out loaded with spin too. I remember on one occasion where it was a fairly lengthy shot and the ball came out low, fizzed across the green with a few skips and then it just suddenly stopped, a couple of inches from the pin. I casually stepped out of the bunker as if that's exactly what I meant to do - but in reality it was just a case of trying to get it out, take 2 putts and move on I think a few grains of sand got trapped between clubhead and ball and that what sometimes generates the massive spin.

[SpeckledJim]

bodhi said:

WinkleHoff said:

The thing is though much of golf is about percentages. Always have a chuckle when everyone reaches for the driver whenever they can. They don't even know how far they hit their 3w and 5w by comparison. Their fade is accentuated with the driver, so they are losing distance, but they just don't go for the shorter clubs. Maybe the big head of a driver gives confidence at address, I don't know. Henrik Stenson bagged his driver in favour of 3w. Lots of the fairway woods have a very hot face as well, and it's also easier to shape the ball, and hit low shots that run for miles in the summer....

Must admit the more I hear this argument and the more I play the less I agree with it, mostly as every golfer is different. Some people are wild with the drvier and should put it away, yes - me for most of last season, for instance , but for others the Driver is the straightest club in the bag - if you can hit it, you should imo.

PS Stenson does still carry a Driver, just doesn't use it that often, as he hits his (strong) 3 wood far enough. I've tried to emulate this by building a beast of a 3 wood (put an X Flex shaft in my Vapor Fly), but my Driver is still 20-30 yards longer. That could be the difference between reaching a par 5 in 2 or not, or going for a pin with a 7 iron rather than a 5.

I agree, if any given golfer is very good with their driver, then the distance gained makes the rest of the game easier.

I reckon only 10% of club golfers get a nett benefit (shots gained - shots cost) by carrying their driver, and the majority of them would be low handicappers.

That said I think a lot of very good golfers don't nett benefit from their driver. It's often the club that costs them the most, and they're extremely capable and reliable with their 3 wood. Proper analysis would be needed to demonstrate that to them, and even then you wouldn't convince many of them, because they like smashing their driver more than they like saving half a shot a round.

[Busa mav]

soupdragon1 said:

Its a lot easier to hit off a range mat than off the ground at the golf course. If you hit a little bit behind the ball, you can get away with at the range, but not on the course. Part of that 'feel' could be set up. By default, a range mat is square, which aids alignment, and you're always hitting the same direction.

I would sometimes move the mat at an angle so that I don't get that 'free alignment aid' which means that you are 'always' practicing getting yourself lined up properly, rather than having the mat helping you. Getting yourself to a position where you get your posture and alignment the same every time you address the ball is quite difficult and is often overlooked so don't take the freebie that you get from the range mat.
And mix up your targets on the range can help to, rather than just aiming straight up the middle each time. In a nutshell, trying to get the range session as close as you can to a typical day on the golf course can only aid in getting to the point where you bring your range game to the course.

Thanks for the response, good idea.

Last week I had to play off of a temporary tee , a mat that was on the angle and I struggled, put 2 balls straight in to the water, much to the enjoyment of my mates.

I just didn't hit the ball properly at all, just punched it 30 yards straight in.

3 days ago, I went to the range , decided to hit 30 balls with the 7 and see what consistency I am getting, hit 27 out of 30 properly and straight, then go to the course and I was probably at 20% at best.

[bodhi]

SpeckledJim said:

bodhi said:

WinkleHoff said:

The thing is though much of golf is about percentages. Always have a chuckle when everyone reaches for the driver whenever they can. They don't even know how far they hit their 3w and 5w by comparison. Their fade is accentuated with the driver, so they are losing distance, but they just don't go for the shorter clubs. Maybe the big head of a driver gives confidence at address, I don't know. Henrik Stenson bagged his driver in favour of 3w. Lots of the fairway woods have a very hot face as well, and it's also easier to shape the ball, and hit low shots that run for miles in the summer....

Must admit the more I hear this argument and the more I play the less I agree with it, mostly as every golfer is different. Some people are wild with the drvier and should put it away, yes - me for most of last season, for instance , but for others the Driver is the straightest club in the bag - if you can hit it, you should imo.

PS Stenson does still carry a Driver, just doesn't use it that often, as he hits his (strong) 3 wood far enough. I've tried to emulate this by building a beast of a 3 wood (put an X Flex shaft in my Vapor Fly), but my Driver is still 20-30 yards longer. That could be the difference between reaching a par 5 in 2 or not, or going for a pin with a 7 iron rather than a 5.

I agree, if any given golfer is very good with their driver, then the distance gained makes the rest of the game easier.

I reckon only 10% of club golfers get a nett benefit (shots gained - shots cost) by carrying their driver, and the majority of them would be low handicappers.

That said I think a lot of very good golfers don't nett benefit from their driver. It's often the club that costs them the most, and they're extremely capable and reliable with their 3 wood. Proper analysis would be needed to demonstrate that to them, and even then you wouldn't convince many of them, because they like smashing their driver more than they like saving half a shot a round.

I think it comes down to what you want out of a game of golf personally - if you think every shot counts and want to go as low as possible, then yes the Driver should stay in the bag. But if you want to go out and have some fun, then get the Driver out and have a lash

I always used to be massively conservative on the golf course - having a two way miss and playing a tight tree lined course left me with fewer options - but when I played Anfi Tauro in Gran Canaria over Xmas I decided that, because I was on holiday, I was going to abandon my conservative ways and go back to how I used to play - balls out and bugger the consequences. So Driver on every hole it was practical, and go for it in 2 on the Par 5's. Ended up shooting 82 and my best holiday round ever

One example was the 9th, a 510 yard Par 5 with the green protected by a massive lake. Thumped a Driver down the middle, leaving me about 230 yards left. Considered laying up to the right of the lake, then got my 3 wood out and went for it. Caught it a little thin but otherwise out the middle and watched it land pin high about 40 feet away, then 2 putted for a birdie. Did the same on 18 (a Par 5 over the same lake) and narrowly missed a putt for eagle.

Much more fun