"Air hunger" when running, anybody else had this?
Discussion
I have been running regularly for the last 10 years doing a range of marathons, half's, 10k's etc and running on average 3 times a week (usually 2 x 6 miles and 1 x 8 miles unless training for a marathon).
My average training pace is about 7,45 per mile and I tend to push a bit harder on the races with this year's Half pb being 1hr 32, so closer to 7 mins per mile, & marathon 3hrs 44.
Not every race but on a few occasions I have experienced a kind of "air hunger" where I cannot seem to get the oxygen into my lungs and hence into my muscles. This happened at the weekend during a 10k race, by 3 miles in I felt exhausted and could barely continue to complete the course, the last mile taking over 9 minutes and being uncomfortably hard. I first noticed this sensation on a 10k about 3 years ago, on that run I almost had to stop by 3 miles but suddenly I could feel the oxygen coming into my system as if a tap had been turned, and the strength coming back to my legs. This sudden return of oxygen has not happened at any subsequent run when I have had the difficulty breathing.
It tends to happen if I set off hard and then I cannot stabilise the breathing even by slowing a little. On another run, the same pace will not cause a problem and I can settle down to a pace around 7,15'ish.
I have booked in to see my GP just in case but wondered if anyone had experienced anything similar?
Have had similar in swimming...but then again a lot of that is taking in and holding breaths. I find I can get into a place where I think I'm doing ok but I'm actually not breathing properly...i.e. shallow breathing without realising. It just takes a bit of thought to make sure I'm actually taking in decent breaths.
Is it that? Just sort of shallow breathing and then eventually it catches up with you?
Is it that? Just sort of shallow breathing and then eventually it catches up with you?
I had similar to the OP this morning during a Great Run Local 5K. Within the first K I just felt like my lungs weren't working and my legs were weak. It's a hilly course and after a 2K i walked for a short while, then a short while later I felt ok but completed the course much slower than I'd expect. It was quite cold and IU thought perhaps that'd affected me.
keirik said:
One of the reasons I don't run. I always get this, In can cycle all day but when running I never ever get to a steady state why I can focus on my running, the breathing just gets harder and harder.
Sorry that's not much help , but I sympathise.
I'm exactly the same. I have very mild asthma, so wonder if that impacts it. It's frustrating, as I wouldn't mind doing some fell running, but I'd need to get a decent level of fitness behind me first.Sorry that's not much help , but I sympathise.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Have had similar in swimming...but then again a lot of that is taking in and holding breaths. I find I can get into a place where I think I'm doing ok but I'm actually not breathing properly...i.e. shallow breathing without realising. It just takes a bit of thought to make sure I'm actually taking in decent breaths.
Is it that? Just sort of shallow breathing and then eventually it catches up with you?
Is it that? Just sort of shallow breathing and then eventually it catches up with you?
I suffer from this big time when swimming. After getting fed up with having to stop ever 50 metres, I had three years of one to one coaching in a pool against a current with underwater cameras etc to really nail my technique, and after that I could swim for a mile. Now my technique's lapsed I've got about 100 metres in me before needing to stop. It's clearly a really tough thing for me to do! (tiny lung capacity I guess). I run at about 4min/km to 4:30/km and have no problems at all with breath; my max distance is 11/12km though - self regulated due to a history of joint problems running further.OP: Are you breathing rhythmically with your strides? I can't recall my breath/stride timing right now, but I know it's pretty frequent and very rhythmic, otherwise yes, I get the 'swimming problem'. Are you exhaling properly? (a classic swimming problem, but I've not heard it discussed for running before).
Not wishing to try and teach you to suck eggs, but are you warming up properly?
For all my runs (early morning), I brisk walk the first 5mins, jog the next mile and only start to see what I feel like by the end of the 2nd mile. (maybe 20mins total)
If I want to run fast (sub 20min for 5k) I'll do another faster mile as part of the warm up, so a total of 5 mins walking and 3 miles warm up.
Without this I feel crap.
For all my runs (early morning), I brisk walk the first 5mins, jog the next mile and only start to see what I feel like by the end of the 2nd mile. (maybe 20mins total)
If I want to run fast (sub 20min for 5k) I'll do another faster mile as part of the warm up, so a total of 5 mins walking and 3 miles warm up.
Without this I feel crap.
Something I learnt relatively recently is that your body dictates your breathing & HR not from a lack of oxygen, but from the build up of Carbon Dioxide, the byproduct of burning fuel in your muscles as you know.
I started to concentrate on expelling air as the priority and allowing the lungs to fill naturally after that. My thought process is that if I can ensure the lungs are properly empty of 'old' air, even if I breath in too shallow, it's fine as it will still be better.
Has definitely helped with my breathing - feel far more in control of it.
I started to concentrate on expelling air as the priority and allowing the lungs to fill naturally after that. My thought process is that if I can ensure the lungs are properly empty of 'old' air, even if I breath in too shallow, it's fine as it will still be better.
Has definitely helped with my breathing - feel far more in control of it.
Mothersruin said:
I started to concentrate on expelling air as the priority and allowing the lungs to fill naturally after that. My thought process is that if I can ensure the lungs are properly empty of 'old' air, even if I breath in too shallow, it's fine as it will still be better.
Has definitely helped with my breathing - feel far more in control of it.
It might just be terminology but expelling air is a passive process with inspiration being active. Has definitely helped with my breathing - feel far more in control of it.
Mothersruin said:
Something I learnt relatively recently is that your body dictates your breathing & HR not from a lack of oxygen, but from the build up of Carbon Dioxide, the byproduct of burning fuel in your muscles as you know.
I started to concentrate on expelling air as the priority and allowing the lungs to fill naturally after that. My thought process is that if I can ensure the lungs are properly empty of 'old' air, even if I breath too shallow, it's fine as it will still be better.
Has definitely helped with my breathing - feel far more in control of it.
I started to concentrate on expelling air as the priority and allowing the lungs to fill naturally after that. My thought process is that if I can ensure the lungs are properly empty of 'old' air, even if I breath too shallow, it's fine as it will still be better.
Has definitely helped with my breathing - feel far more in control of it.
This is one reason why free diving is so dangerous. Divers supress their need to breathe by performing breathing exercises to remove the CO2 from their lungs. Without that CO2 there, your body can get low enough on Oxygen for you to black-out without ever sending your brain a signal to breathe - CO2 is the messenger, not low O2.As described above, this is a common problem with swimmers - they're so desperate to breath in when they turn their head to the side, that a small exhale sometimes precedes a massive inhale, so with that tiny exhalation all the 'exhaust gases' (a PH analogy!) stay in your respiratory system. Snorkelers get this too - because of the length of the snorkel, too short an exhale just means your next inhale takes in the CO2 you just breathed out, and your lungs panic and trigger faster breathing, which makes the problem worse and it's a vicious circle.
Thanks for all the feedback. It feels to me to be a bit more than just being out of breath, I have seen the GP and booked in for an echo scan on my heart next week, just to be on the safe side really but you never know.... i have a place in the London Marathon for next year so hopefully it won't impact on this!
I had similar symptoms last year. I've run regularly for over 40 years without problems then suddenly I felt that I just couldn't get enough oxygen into my lungs.
Went to the doctor, lung function test ok, chest X- Ray normal then had an Angiogram which apparently showed one artery was 70% blocked so it was decided I needed a stent.
Went back 4 weeks later to have the stent fitted and the scan showed my artery as normal. To say I was confused is an understatement but the Cardiologist explained that my artery must have gone into spasm and this is relatively common.
Was given nitrate tablets to take and these did the trick although they do give you a bit of a headache for the first few weeks.
Possibly the op has the same probably ?
Went to the doctor, lung function test ok, chest X- Ray normal then had an Angiogram which apparently showed one artery was 70% blocked so it was decided I needed a stent.
Went back 4 weeks later to have the stent fitted and the scan showed my artery as normal. To say I was confused is an understatement but the Cardiologist explained that my artery must have gone into spasm and this is relatively common.
Was given nitrate tablets to take and these did the trick although they do give you a bit of a headache for the first few weeks.
Possibly the op has the same probably ?
thatjagbloke said:
I had similar symptoms last year. I've run regularly for over 40 years without problems then suddenly I felt that I just couldn't get enough oxygen into my lungs.
Went to the doctor, lung function test ok, chest X- Ray normal then had an Angiogram which apparently showed one artery was 70% blocked so it was decided I needed a stent.
Went back 4 weeks later to have the stent fitted and the scan showed my artery as normal. To say I was confused is an understatement but the Cardiologist explained that my artery must have gone into spasm and this is relatively common.
Was given nitrate tablets to take and these did the trick although they do give you a bit of a headache for the first few weeks.
Possibly the op has the same probably ?
HiWent to the doctor, lung function test ok, chest X- Ray normal then had an Angiogram which apparently showed one artery was 70% blocked so it was decided I needed a stent.
Went back 4 weeks later to have the stent fitted and the scan showed my artery as normal. To say I was confused is an understatement but the Cardiologist explained that my artery must have gone into spasm and this is relatively common.
Was given nitrate tablets to take and these did the trick although they do give you a bit of a headache for the first few weeks.
Possibly the op has the same probably ?
Thanks, this does sound the same/very similar to what is afflicting me. Were your symptoms constant or did they seem to come & go, was it just when running (and if so, just when pushing hard or even when just "cruising") or did you have the same problem at rest? My symptoms have so far been only when running (or other exercise) and then not every race. My race pace is aim to set off at 7 min miles and then settle at around 7 15's after about 4 miles, this year I have run half marathons at that pace with no problems but also done 10k's where I almost had to stop as my legs felt "dead" and ended up clocking 9 min miles.
Are you back to normal with the nitrate tablets?
As mentioned I have an echo scan on my heart next week so shall see if that reveals anything.
philcray said:
My symptoms seemed to come on most times I ran, the nitrate tablets helped for a while but then one day when running I suddenly realised I felt much better so decided to try a run without them, and felt good then too so gave up on the tablets.
Your echo scan should show up any problems with the valves, you may have a leaky one which could cause similar symptoms ( brother in law has that )
Good luck, hope everything goes well.
Hi
Thanks, this does sound the same/very similar to what is afflicting me. Were your symptoms constant or did they seem to come & go, was it just when running (and if so, just when pushing hard or even when just "cruising") or did you have the same problem at rest? My symptoms have so far been only when running (or other exercise) and then not every race. My race pace is aim to set off at 7 min miles and then settle at around 7 15's after about 4 miles, this year I have run half marathons at that pace with no problems but also done 10k's where I almost had to stop as my legs felt "dead" and ended up clocking 9 min miles.
Are you back to normal with the nitrate tablets?
As mentioned I have an echo scan on my heart next week so shall see if that reveals anything.
Your echo scan should show up any problems with the valves, you may have a leaky one which could cause similar symptoms ( brother in law has that )
Good luck, hope everything goes well.
Hi
Thanks, this does sound the same/very similar to what is afflicting me. Were your symptoms constant or did they seem to come & go, was it just when running (and if so, just when pushing hard or even when just "cruising") or did you have the same problem at rest? My symptoms have so far been only when running (or other exercise) and then not every race. My race pace is aim to set off at 7 min miles and then settle at around 7 15's after about 4 miles, this year I have run half marathons at that pace with no problems but also done 10k's where I almost had to stop as my legs felt "dead" and ended up clocking 9 min miles.
Are you back to normal with the nitrate tablets?
As mentioned I have an echo scan on my heart next week so shall see if that reveals anything.
Hi
The air hunger actually got worse, if anything, so a couple of weeks ago I went to a&e to hopefully fast track a few checks. I was taken straight for an ecg & blood checks and then through to resuss where I was put on a bed and, cutting a long story short, told by the young doctor that I had either had or was about to have a heart attack. That certainly took the edge off my afternoon.
Cutting the story short again, I was kept there about 3 hours. I had a chest & lung xray, was kept on the ecg and also had an echocardiogram. Eventually as I had no actual pain, the blood tests came back clear, my pulse was steady at c.55 and 100% oxygen in the blood stream, they decided I wasn't having a heart attack and I was allowed home.
Since then I have been to see the Cardiologist (who I was already booked in to see) and my GP again to get some further tests. Nothing specific has been identified yet and my breathing is more or less now back to normal. I have done a few very slow runs which felt ok but legs do ache a bit after.
Due to speak to GP again next wk as he is reviewing xrays etc taken by a&e and also booked to see cardiologist later in November. All a bit ironic really given I have never smoked, am not overweight and have exercised regularly my whole life...!
The air hunger actually got worse, if anything, so a couple of weeks ago I went to a&e to hopefully fast track a few checks. I was taken straight for an ecg & blood checks and then through to resuss where I was put on a bed and, cutting a long story short, told by the young doctor that I had either had or was about to have a heart attack. That certainly took the edge off my afternoon.
Cutting the story short again, I was kept there about 3 hours. I had a chest & lung xray, was kept on the ecg and also had an echocardiogram. Eventually as I had no actual pain, the blood tests came back clear, my pulse was steady at c.55 and 100% oxygen in the blood stream, they decided I wasn't having a heart attack and I was allowed home.
Since then I have been to see the Cardiologist (who I was already booked in to see) and my GP again to get some further tests. Nothing specific has been identified yet and my breathing is more or less now back to normal. I have done a few very slow runs which felt ok but legs do ache a bit after.
Due to speak to GP again next wk as he is reviewing xrays etc taken by a&e and also booked to see cardiologist later in November. All a bit ironic really given I have never smoked, am not overweight and have exercised regularly my whole life...!
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