The **BOXING** thread (Vol 3)
Discussion
hungry_hog said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Anyone watching Bruno Vs Tyson on Sky Documentaries tonight-it’s bloody good!
Amazing. You could see Tyson had a huge respect for Bruno and vice versa.I think this, Senna and the Jordan last dance are my favourite sports docs.
Also The Fight Of Their Lives (Benn McLellan) for some reason, doesn’t get the recognition it deserves.
I think WWWKs is my favourite though, it’s the intimacy with history that’s so amazing-the way it was sort of made and then forgotten about unfinished. Then dusted off and shown to the world, maybe it’s an age thing but seeing as it was just before my time it was so unexpected to get so close to such historical figures.
I felt the Bruno/Tyson doc was a bit of a let down to be honest, I'd have liked to just listen to the two of them having a conversation, Tyson's podcast can be pretty good, with a third man in there to get the conversation moving it would have been better to just let the two of them talk.
I no particular order my fav docs are Tapia, Unforgiveable Blackness and the Tommy Morrison documentary - non of them great first date movies...
I no particular order my fav docs are Tapia, Unforgiveable Blackness and the Tommy Morrison documentary - non of them great first date movies...
BobsPigeon said:
I felt the Bruno/Tyson doc was a bit of a let down to be honest, I'd have liked to just listen to the two of them having a conversation, Tyson's podcast can be pretty good, with a third man in there to get the conversation moving it would have been better to just let the two of them talk.
I no particular order my fav docs are Tapia, Unforgiveable Blackness and the Tommy Morrison documentary - non of them great first date movies...
I have the Sonny Liston one recorded, gonna try and watch it this week I no particular order my fav docs are Tapia, Unforgiveable Blackness and the Tommy Morrison documentary - non of them great first date movies...
BobsPigeon said:
biggbn said:
I have the Sonny Liston one recorded, gonna try and watch it this week
Another one that doesn't leave you feeling particularly good about the sport or humanity in general. Lee Jones Jnr said:
biggbn said:
Lee Jones Jnr said:
What’s My Name isn’t a two parter is it?
Has it just been split for TV?
Being shown in two parts right now on sky documentary channel Has it just been split for TV?
I believe when I watched it it was in one.
biggbn said:
Being shown in two parts right now on sky documentary channel
It's split into two on HBO as well. Definitely give it a watch, very much Ali in his own words.Edit: combined it's nearly 3 hours so if it got a cinema release I imagine it was all as one but I don't know.
Edited by Pugaris on Saturday 27th February 17:12
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Anyone watching Bruno Vs Tyson on Sky Documentaries tonight-it’s bloody good!
I enjoyed it, took me right back. I too would have loved to have seen more of the time Bruno & Tyson met up and chatted. It made me wonder if all of Brunos mental health issues stemmed from the fact that despite him becoming world champion, it was only possible because Tyson was in prison. Had Bruno been born 10 yrs earlier or later then he could have been THE man. But Tyson was around at the wrong time, stopping Bruno being the true heavyweight champion of the world.That must have remained in Brunos mind, always knowing that he wasn't 'the' best boxer in the world and probably prevented him from enjoying the love that the British people had for him.
It appears that after their meeting Bruno felt so much better, realising that whilst Tyson might have been a better boxer than him, his life was plagued with problems and he was unloved, whereas Bruno was the peoples favourite, loved by the nation for who he was. The meeting seems to have done a great deal of good for Bruno, which pleases me. I have his autobiographies but haven't read it yet.
Surprised to hear the suggestion that black British people at the time felt Bruno had sold himself out to the panders of the white man.
Edited by LeadFarmer on Saturday 27th February 19:39
Guardian had an interview with Bruno today: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/feb/27/fran...
Didn't realise that Bruno was messed around so much:
Didn't realise that Bruno was messed around so much:
Frank said:
I went into training camp four months before the first cancellation and put so much into it. But it became so confusing when he was crashing his car and saying he wanted to commit suicide. The fight was cancelled five times.
LeadFarmer said:
Had Bruno been born 10 yrs earlier or later then he could have been THE man. But Tyson was around at the wrong time, stopping Bruno being the true heavyweight champion of the world.
Bruno may well think this but it's not true. 10 years earlier puts him in the era of Larry Holmes and 10 years later he's tail end of Lennox Lewis and then the Klitschko brothers. 20 years later and yeah, I think he becomes champ and holds the belts for a while but he lost to Lennox Lewis and he lost to post prison Mike, which is a lot way off his best in the late 80s. Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis are top 5 H2H heavyweights (Lewis is number 1 for me, probably would only put Ali and Foreman ahead of Holmes). Edited by LeadFarmer on Saturday 27th February 19:39
I think Bruno has a decent chance of beating Wlad, particularly prior to the Manny Steward era but Vitali had too good a chin to not be heavy favourite in that matchup.
In an era where Wilder could make 10 title defences though? Yeah I think Bruno would've done well.
Edited by Pugaris on Saturday 27th February 20:54
I watched it, I enjoyed the unseen footage but I was a bit disappointed with a few things
They got the dates wrong when showing early Tyson and Bruno footage.
The voice-overs from Colin Hart and Duke McKenzie (amongst some others) were heavily edited and barely recognisable.
There was no real "insight" from Bruno. It was just voice overs mainly. I would have liked to have seen modern footage with him sat down telling us how he really felt about being called an Uncle Tom and facing Mike Tyson. He always seemed mentally fragile and easy to throw off his game and never managed to overcome that weakness of his. He lost to Tim Witherspoon (1986), twice to Tyson (who scared the life out of him) and Lennox Lewis (who was the superior athlete). All three opponents exploited Bruno's mental weakness in their own way.
Finally, I would have liked to have seen more of Mike Tyson. He's always been a great go-to for quotes and always seemed a very intelligent person. His personality is quite magnetic and it would have been nice to have gotten more screen time from him, particularly how he perceived Frank Bruno in the 1980s and then in the 1990s post prison.
Just my 2 pennies worth though.
They got the dates wrong when showing early Tyson and Bruno footage.
The voice-overs from Colin Hart and Duke McKenzie (amongst some others) were heavily edited and barely recognisable.
There was no real "insight" from Bruno. It was just voice overs mainly. I would have liked to have seen modern footage with him sat down telling us how he really felt about being called an Uncle Tom and facing Mike Tyson. He always seemed mentally fragile and easy to throw off his game and never managed to overcome that weakness of his. He lost to Tim Witherspoon (1986), twice to Tyson (who scared the life out of him) and Lennox Lewis (who was the superior athlete). All three opponents exploited Bruno's mental weakness in their own way.
Finally, I would have liked to have seen more of Mike Tyson. He's always been a great go-to for quotes and always seemed a very intelligent person. His personality is quite magnetic and it would have been nice to have gotten more screen time from him, particularly how he perceived Frank Bruno in the 1980s and then in the 1990s post prison.
Just my 2 pennies worth though.
Pugaris said:
Bruno may well think this but it's not true. 10 years earlier puts him in the era of Larry Holmes and 10 years later he's tail end of Lennox Lewis and then the Klitschko brothers. 20 years later and yeah, I think he becomes champ and holds the belts for a while but he lost to Lennox Lewis and he lost to post prison Mike, which is a lot way off his best in the late 80s. Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis are top 5 H2H heavyweights (Lewis is number 1 for me, probably would only out Ali and Foreman ahead of Holmes).
I think Bruno has a decent chance of beating Wlad, particularly prior to the Manny Steward era but Vitali had too good a chin to not be heavy favourite in that matchup.
In an era where Wilder could make 10 title defences though? Yeah I think Bruno would've done well.
I think prime Bruno would have tore a hole in today's heavyweight division with the exception of Fury. I think history has been unkind to him, a tremendous jab, a tremendously powerful driven individual and proper old school stop a horse power. I don't even think he was 'chinny', he froze when he was tagged but I always felt that was due to pride, he refused to go down after the press labelled him weak in the whiskers area after he fought Jumbo Cummings early in his career. The punishment he took from Tyson in fight one was incredible. A proud man and genuine sporting hero in my eyes, want the press did to him after his problems was inexcusable, the Sun in particular I think Bruno has a decent chance of beating Wlad, particularly prior to the Manny Steward era but Vitali had too good a chin to not be heavy favourite in that matchup.
In an era where Wilder could make 10 title defences though? Yeah I think Bruno would've done well.
His early defeats were against world champions, and his only subsequent ones against modern greats...and he gave both of them a bloody good argument!!
biggbn said:
I think prime Bruno would have tore a hole in today's heavyweight division with the exception of Fury. I think history has been unkind to him, a tremendous jab, a tremendously powerful driven individual and proper old school stop a horse power. I don't even think he was 'chinny', he froze when he was tagged but I always felt that was due to pride, he refused to go down after the press labelled him weak in the whiskers area after he fought Jumbo Cummings early in his career. The punishment he took from Tyson in fight one was incredible. A proud man and genuine sporting hero in my eyes, want the press did to him after his problems was inexcusable, the Sun in particular
His early defeats were against world champions, and his only subsequent ones against modern greats...and he gave both of them a bloody good argument!!
Don't disagree with any of this except I don't think he's better than AJ, actually think they're quite similar fighters at a very similar level. He was a very, very good fighter unlucky to have competed in one of the best 2 eras in the division. Agree he wasn't chinny, took a lot to buzz him but he definitely didn't know how to defend himself when he was hurt and that was his biggest weakness. His early defeats were against world champions, and his only subsequent ones against modern greats...and he gave both of them a bloody good argument!!
His fight against Lewis, despite losing, is actually his most impressive performance imo. Was a hell of a lot more competitive than either of the Holyfield fights.
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