England in India 2021
Discussion
Pieman68 said:
fat80b said:
Indeed a real shame.
Also can't hold out much hope for the last test being much better - at the same ground on probably a very similar pitch. Not sure there is a lot that can be done between now and the start of that match to sort it out.
Just get the big roller on it Also can't hold out much hope for the last test being much better - at the same ground on probably a very similar pitch. Not sure there is a lot that can be done between now and the start of that match to sort it out.
PhilkRS said:
warch said:
Bairstow isn't a Test opener, we're missing Rory Burns. Crawley couldn't have done much with that ball that did for him.
Amazing bowling by Axar Patel though.
Amazing bowling by Axar Patel though.
We are missing an opener period.
I know he's a tosser but........he's our tosser.
PhilkRS said:
TheAngryDog said:
shocking pitch. The groundsmen should be fined.
I suspect that this is the pitch Kohli asked for..spikeyhead said:
That's the end of that test.
The biggest loser is test cricket in general and Indian test cricket in particular.
I is disappoint.
The Indian team, fans etc won't see it that way. If we had have won I wouldn't have been that over the moon about it as the pitch was a shocker. The biggest loser is test cricket in general and Indian test cricket in particular.
I is disappoint.
pequod said:
The most ridiculous test wicket I have seen in all my days. This wasn't a fair contest between bat and ball and won't please the sponsors or TV companies, I suspect, and made a mockery of Test cricket but will the ICC do something about it?
I've played on better uncovered pitches in villages and schools. I guess apart from the pitch which started spinning inconsistently from day 1 particularly with the pink ball, the one thing we can’t argue with, is the fact that India have measurably better spinners than us unless it’s a flat track then they have less impact. But that ain’t going to happen. So whilst the pitch debate is entirely valid. Let’s get real. Bar Root our top order batting is not firing and our spinners are not good enough. That is not an recipe that wins matches in India. We won the first but without Root we wouldn’t have. Mind you Bess took wickets. I also still can’t understand dropping him and then also reduce your run scoring capability when we haven’t been scoring runs. We misread the pitch big time. Next game ditch a seamer and bring back Bess. I don’t think Root is a second spinner and to be honest I want him to concentrate on his batting and captaincy. 2 specialists with Root in support works for me. He should bowl more yes but we could have 3. Why not? Unless you think our batting is so poor we need less bowlers and more batsman as I know some people do. But you have to take 20 wickets too.
Edited by PhilkRS on Thursday 25th February 21:57
PhilkRS said:
I guess apart from the pitch which started spinning inconsistently from day 1 particularly with the pink ball, the one thing we can’t argue with, is the fact that India have measurably better spinners than us unless it’s a flat track then they have less impact. But that ain’t going to happen. So whilst the pitch debate is entirely valid. Let’s get real. Bar Root our top order batting is not firing and our spinners are not good enough. That is not an recipe that wins matches in India. We won the first but without Root we wouldn’t have. Mind you Bess took wickets. I also still can’t understand dropping him and then also reduce your run scoring capability when we haven’t been scoring runs. We misread the pitch big time. Next game ditch a seamer and bring back Bess. I don’t think Root is a second spinner and to be honest I want him to concentrate on his batting and captaincy. 2 specialists with Root in support works for me. He should bowl more yes but we could have 3. Why not? Unless you think our batting is so poor we need less bowlers and more batsman as I know some people do. But you have to take 20 wickets too.
What you say about Root being our only decent batsmen in these conditions is what it comes down to. England are just not good enough with bat in hand. Edited by PhilkRS on Thursday 25th February 21:57
We can talk about two spinners, four seamers etc until the cows come home but until the batsmen can score some runs we’re f
ked. I honestly can’t think of an over like the first over of England’s second innings in any match I’ve ever seen...never mind the first over and two top order batsmen getting skittled. That looked like something you’d expect from a number 10 and 11 in the 70’s and 80’s when tail enders really were awful.Root said post match the pink ball skidded on quicker than the red ball which is possibly a reason for the carnage,.,,which may have some credibility given a few of the Indian batsmen fell the same way. Won’t have that excuse next time though....
I’m not going to defend our batting because it has been poor. They are professional sportsmen so I expect them to learn, adapt and improve. So I always see the improvement opportunity and hope it happens in the next game. We have to bowl them out too so the balance in our attack is critical as well. Anyway let’s see.
Cheib said:
What you say about Root being our only decent batsmen in these conditions is what it comes down to. England are just not good enough with bat in hand.
We can talk about two spinners, four seamers etc until the cows come home but until the batsmen can score some runs we’re fked. I honestly can’t think of an over like the first over of England’s second innings in any match I’ve ever seen...never mind the first over and two top order batsmen getting skittled. That looked like something you’d expect from a number 10 and 11 in the 70’s and 80’s when tail enders really were awful.
Root said post match the pink ball skidded on quicker than the red ball which is possibly a reason for the carnage,.,,which may have some credibility given a few of the Indian batsmen fell the same way. Won’t have that excuse next time though....
Each one of them can bat. They are just woefully inconsistent. And that applies to them all including Root.We can talk about two spinners, four seamers etc until the cows come home but until the batsmen can score some runs we’re f
ked. I honestly can’t think of an over like the first over of England’s second innings in any match I’ve ever seen...never mind the first over and two top order batsmen getting skittled. That looked like something you’d expect from a number 10 and 11 in the 70’s and 80’s when tail enders really were awful.Root said post match the pink ball skidded on quicker than the red ball which is possibly a reason for the carnage,.,,which may have some credibility given a few of the Indian batsmen fell the same way. Won’t have that excuse next time though....
Seem to say it most tests, but I still do not think Root is captain material. "Slight misread".
waynedear said:
A rare day off from work today, had my vaccine jab at 08.45, the plan was to then spend the day watching live cricket... balls !!!!!!!
Yeah it’s rubbish that it’s over so quick.Must be weird for the players also having the extra time off but presumably being in a bubble in a hotel or wherever and now with even more time to dwell on their performances.
Murph7355 said:
Seem to say it most tests, but I still do not think Root is captain material. "Slight misread".
Yes I saw that too. Hilarious. The rotation policy hasn't worked. No one can point an a incoming player new to the tour who has arrived and delivered. I can poit at a couple who have been rested who might have performed better. (Panesar, Bess, Buttler)
Also dropping Lawerence and putting Pope back in did nothing for either player. Now we have two good young talents who were on tour to learn, both wondering if they have a future with England. Stick with one and let them learn, f
k know we have persisted with Sibley hoping he learns. I am not sure lynching the top three for their perfomance is fair on a terrible pitch. We ran through India just as quickly..
Gargamel said:
I am not sure lynching the top three for their perfomance is fair on a terrible pitch. We ran through India just as quickly..
This. I though the ball that did for Crawley was near unplayable. Bairstow simply wasn't in form and shouldn't be opening in Test cricket anyway (much as Jason Roy shouldn't have in 2019). Sibley fared better and seemed to cope with the pressure a bit better. This game was won because India are better at spin bowling and better at playing spin, and because England showed up with the wrong bowling attack for the conditions. Archer took a single wicket, Broad and Anderson were barely used at all.
warch said:
Gargamel said:
I am not sure lynching the top three for their perfomance is fair on a terrible pitch. We ran through India just as quickly..
This. I though the ball that did for Crawley was near unplayable. Bairstow simply wasn't in form and shouldn't be opening in Test cricket anyway (much as Jason Roy shouldn't have in 2019). Sibley fared better and seemed to cope with the pressure a bit better. This game was won because India are better at spin bowling and better at playing spin, and because England showed up with the wrong bowling attack for the conditions. Archer took a single wicket, Broad and Anderson were barely used at all.
England lost because they batted really, really badly. From 70 odd for 2 in the first innings they should have been able to make 200. That’s why they lost...not because India batted well...with the exception of Rohit Sharma they didn’t. Yes India have very good spinners but not as good as England made them look.
They didn’t lose because they picked three seamers....that as it turned out was pretty much irrelevant .
India v England: 'A two-day Test - this is not how Test cricket should be'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/56203896
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/56203896
Cheib said:
Bairstow didn’t open
England lost because they batted really, really badly. From 70 odd for 2 in the first innings they should have been able to make 200. That’s why they lost...not because India batted well...with the exception of Rohit Sharma they didn’t. Yes India have very good spinners but not as good as England made them look.
They didn’t lose because they picked three seamers....that as it turned out was pretty much irrelevant .
Sorry I have written that about Bairstow incorrectly several times now. I do think he is better further down the order in Test cricket though.England lost because they batted really, really badly. From 70 odd for 2 in the first innings they should have been able to make 200. That’s why they lost...not because India batted well...with the exception of Rohit Sharma they didn’t. Yes India have very good spinners but not as good as England made them look.
They didn’t lose because they picked three seamers....that as it turned out was pretty much irrelevant .
Yes we batted really badly but India's bowlers did for us with variation, getting the batsman to get used to a certain delivery then bowling a straight one. Adil Rashid can do this for England.
Choosing three pacemen didn't really affect how we bowled (very effectively actually) but it suggests that we simply didn't understand what the conditions were going to be before the start of the match.
I predicted a nightmare second innings around the time everyone was congratulating Root for his five for, I suspect India were looking forward to that, which surely must have exceeded their wildest expectations.
I also think the plethora of one day games doesn't help. Look at Barstow, he's just seen an opener out first ball, he comes to the crease and tries to sweep to the boundary first ball. That's not test cricket, take your time, judge the pitch, see what the ball is doing, don't try and smack your first ball for four like you would in a T20 game.
warch said:
Sorry I have written that about Bairstow incorrectly several times now. I do think he is better further down the order in Test cricket though.
Yes we batted really badly but India's bowlers did for us with variation, getting the batsman to get used to a certain delivery then bowling a straight one. Adil Rashid can do this for England.
Choosing three pacemen didn't really affect how we bowled (very effectively actually) but it suggests that we simply didn't understand what the conditions were going to be before the start of the match.
I predicted a nightmare second innings around the time everyone was congratulating Root for his five for, I suspect India were looking forward to that, which surely must have exceeded their wildest expectations.
Generally agree with this.Yes we batted really badly but India's bowlers did for us with variation, getting the batsman to get used to a certain delivery then bowling a straight one. Adil Rashid can do this for England.
Choosing three pacemen didn't really affect how we bowled (very effectively actually) but it suggests that we simply didn't understand what the conditions were going to be before the start of the match.
I predicted a nightmare second innings around the time everyone was congratulating Root for his five for, I suspect India were looking forward to that, which surely must have exceeded their wildest expectations.
Three pacemen means you don't have variety though. Bowling accurately and fast on a shocking pitch probably isn't the most pressing priority. Having it all over the place is
The problems with our batting line up have been there for donkeys' years. The finger must point, as it always must have, first at the selectors and the way that part of the game is managed. Those same people are responsible for selecting Root as captain when it was way too early to do so...and I don't see him growing out of that now as there's pretty much nobody in the side to learn from.
I suspect we will see this as a regular pattern now for some time, until the selectors show some balls. A good test win will be followed by, at best, mediocrity for a few. The team will then get fired up behind a sulking "slightly misread" Root and will drag out another performance to show they are actually capable of it if pushed.
One key factor of top end teams to me is consistency and being able to drag out at least good performances every time, even in adversity. This England side doesn't have that at all.
(This seems to be rife in English sport at the moment - the football side have been like it for ages. The rugby side are that way too right now).
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