six nations 2021

[Bonefish Blues]

TheGreatSoprendo said:

Bonefish Blues said:

As I indicated yesterday, if the captains had been swapped, England would have won that with ease, I reckon.

The thought of Farrell captaining Wales just sent a cold shiver down my spine!

Leaving aside his abilities as a player, in my view, England should seriously consider relieving Farrell of the captaincy. Referee management is a critical part of captaincy and Farrell is hot-headed and his interactions with referees are unnecessarily aggressive and confrontational. Going back to the first try on Saturday (if I dare reopen that particular can of worms), was the referee obliged to do anything other than what he did in that situation? No. Could he have managed the situation more sympathetically [to England]? Absolutely. Referees are human and dealing with them in the manner which Farrell does is less likely to engender the kind of sympathetic refereeing that can help you in those sorts of situations.

Sam Warburton was an absolute master of dealing with referees and if Farrell is to continue as captain, he’d do well to study his manner and learn from it.

I’d suggest that Farrell’s chances of captaining the Lions are pretty close to zero at the moment, although who will is a whole other question that is probably for another day/thread!

Pretty much exactly that - refereeing is so subjective, especially wrt scrums that you need to have a relationship as captain. It was obvious from the first say 5 mins that we had a 'fussy' ref who liked blowing the whistle. Getting angry and in his face helped not one iota.

[Leithen]

Will World Rugby step into the fray as they did in 2018?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-un...

[Bonefish Blues]

Leithen said:

Will World Rugby step into the fray as they did in 2018?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-un...

For a couple of decisions of that nature, some clarity would nip it in the bud, I guess.

[anonymous-user]

What do people think is going to happen with the French?

There’s one match to reschedule and their government talking about stopping them completely.

https://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12508/1...

I think they should just forfeit each match if they can’t produce a team, like plenty of other teams have in rugby and other sports.

[DocJock]

Agreed.

[Evanivitch]

El stovey said:

What do people think is going to happen with the French?

There’s one match to reschedule and their government talking about stopping them completely.

https://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12508/1...

I think they should just forfeit each match if they can’t produce a team, like plenty of other teams have in rugby and other sports.

Do Wales get a grandslam or just the championship? Asking for a friend.

[DocJock]

Grandslam imo.

[TheGreatSoprendo]

Evanivitch said:

Do Wales get a grandslam or just the championship? Asking for a friend.

In this situation for club games, they usually assume a four converted tries to nil win and award a 28-0 win to the other team. That would make it a grand slam, assuming Wales beat Italy, which we know isn't always guaranteed. No idea whether they'd take that approch for the 6N though.

[anonymous-user]

Evanivitch said:

El stovey said:

What do people think is going to happen with the French?

There’s one match to reschedule and their government talking about stopping them completely.

https://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12508/1...

I think they should just forfeit each match if they can’t produce a team, like plenty of other teams have in rugby and other sports.

Do Wales get a grandslam or just the championship? Asking for a friend.

Grand slam, why not?

[Evanivitch]

El stovey said:

Evanivitch said:

El stovey said:

What do people think is going to happen with the French?

There’s one match to reschedule and their government talking about stopping them completely.

https://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12508/1...

I think they should just forfeit each match if they can’t produce a team, like plenty of other teams have in rugby and other sports.

Do Wales get a grandslam or just the championship? Asking for a friend.

Grand slam, why not?

Just getting my Penderyn order in place...

[abzmike]

Evanivitch said:

El stovey said:

Evanivitch said:

El stovey said:

What do people think is going to happen with the French?

There’s one match to reschedule and their government talking about stopping them completely.

https://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12508/1...

I think they should just forfeit each match if they can’t produce a team, like plenty of other teams have in rugby and other sports.

Do Wales get a grandslam or just the championship? Asking for a friend.

Grand slam, why not?

Just getting my Penderyn order in place...

Wales can only beat whoever is put in front of them, so if they win the remaining games they play it would be a grand slam.
If France can't play any more games, then the easiest thing would be to remove all of their results from the table, rather than award 28-nils.

Edited by abzmike on Monday 1st March 12:38

[C70R]

Bonefish Blues said:

TheGreatSoprendo said:

Bonefish Blues said:

As I indicated yesterday, if the captains had been swapped, England would have won that with ease, I reckon.

The thought of Farrell captaining Wales just sent a cold shiver down my spine!

Leaving aside his abilities as a player, in my view, England should seriously consider relieving Farrell of the captaincy. Referee management is a critical part of captaincy and Farrell is hot-headed and his interactions with referees are unnecessarily aggressive and confrontational. Going back to the first try on Saturday (if I dare reopen that particular can of worms), was the referee obliged to do anything other than what he did in that situation? No. Could he have managed the situation more sympathetically [to England]? Absolutely. Referees are human and dealing with them in the manner which Farrell does is less likely to engender the kind of sympathetic refereeing that can help you in those sorts of situations.

Sam Warburton was an absolute master of dealing with referees and if Farrell is to continue as captain, he’d do well to study his manner and learn from it.

I’d suggest that Farrell’s chances of captaining the Lions are pretty close to zero at the moment, although who will is a whole other question that is probably for another day/thread!

Pretty much exactly that - refereeing is so subjective, especially wrt scrums that you need to have a relationship as captain. It was obvious from the first say 5 mins that we had a 'fussy' ref who liked blowing the whistle. Getting angry and in his face helped not one iota.

He was very pernickety as a referee. He was blowing ruck infringements very quickly.

Wales definitely adapted, while England continued to push their luck with offsides, slow rolling away and contesting the ball.

While there may have been some marginal calls that went against England, the Welsh team didn't suffer the same fate by not putting themselves in the position to be pinged.

A poor refereeing show all round. The Welsh knock-on try could have easily gone in either team's favour, because the Law was being interpreted. The refereeing team also seemed happy to ignore the forward pass in Watson's try.

England will be kicking themselves that they had the game tied at 24-each with 15min to play, and managed to ship 16 unanswered points.

[McGee_22]

Welsh press reporting on admissions by the match ref...

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-ne...

TLDR; he admits he got both decisions wrong.

[Bonefish Blues]

No st sherlock, as they say

[C70R]

McGee_22 said:

Welsh press reporting on admissions by the match ref...

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-ne...

TLDR; he admits he got both decisions wrong.

I'm not sure that Jutge's quote and the headline quite mean the same thing. WalesOnline isn't known as a paragon of high quality journalism...

[768]

The Telegraph says broadly the same thing.

Gauzere's next match for Wales is in Rome in two weeks time before he takes on England in Dublin the week after.

[Robbo66]

El stovey said:

This online abuse of Sonja McLaughlan is pretty unpleasant.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-ne...

Just a reporter doing her job. All the Interviews and questions sounded fine to me.

Some people need to step back and remember it’s just a game of rugby.

Agreed, though her playschool level of questioning and aggressive delivery were poor IMV. England handled this very well. Playing the victim on Twitter, only self to blame. Ignore the haters troll types, you've woken them up. Think before you deliver base questions in that manner. It's not oikball.

[yellowjack]

Don1 said:

Simply put, England didn't deserve to win - as usual, they seem to think the laws of the game don't apply to them (if I were feeling nasty I would say that's a carry over from Saracens). Yes, I am an England supporter.

The rest of it is in the realms of what if. If the ref didn't have an absolute shocker, would England have felt the need to chase the game that way? Probably as they don't seem to be very intelligent at the moment.

End of the day, ref doesn't need to be seen on an international pitch again. England need to shape up. Wales have had the rub of the green this championship.

One telling thing for me, regarding England's discipline, was Martin Johnson's comment post-match. Something along the lines of "they can get away with that in the Premiership, but not at International level". Which I took to mean "taking liberties with the laws of the game is OK except when there's a TMO..." Not a great look. I was always taught to be a sportsman. To play the game within the rules/laws to the best of my ability. Yes, there may be a lot at stake at this level of the game, but ultimately these players are role models for kids at schools and clubs learning the basics. And if the professional international players aren't getting the basics right how can we expect coaches at junior levels to persuade youngsters to get it right?

[Challo]

yellowjack said:

Don1 said:

Simply put, England didn't deserve to win - as usual, they seem to think the laws of the game don't apply to them (if I were feeling nasty I would say that's a carry over from Saracens). Yes, I am an England supporter.

The rest of it is in the realms of what if. If the ref didn't have an absolute shocker, would England have felt the need to chase the game that way? Probably as they don't seem to be very intelligent at the moment.

End of the day, ref doesn't need to be seen on an international pitch again. England need to shape up. Wales have had the rub of the green this championship.

One telling thing for me, regarding England's discipline, was Martin Johnson's comment post-match. Something along the lines of "they can get away with that in the Premiership, but not at International level". Which I took to mean "taking liberties with the laws of the game is OK except when there's a TMO..." Not a great look. I was always taught to be a sportsman. To play the game within the rules/laws to the best of my ability. Yes, there may be a lot at stake at this level of the game, but ultimately these players are role models for kids at schools and clubs learning the basics. And if the professional international players aren't getting the basics right how can we expect coaches at junior levels to persuade youngsters to get it right?

I think it was more a comment of a lower standard of referring in the premiership that previously would have missed these penalties. Like any sport you have rules that you need to adhere too, but you are always looking for that area where you can gain an advantage or get away with something. Im not talking foul play, but might be waiting an extra second before the tacker rolls away, or the attacker holds the ball for an extra sec after being tackled to give his team a chance to avoid a turn over.

Happens all the time in sport, and if you are clever then you can get away with it. Unfortunately on the weekend England's players where not clever enough.

[abzmike]

yellowjack said:

One telling thing for me, regarding England's discipline, was Martin Johnson's comment post-match. Something along the lines of "they can get away with that in the Premiership, but not at International level". Which I took to mean "taking liberties with the laws of the game is OK except when there's a TMO..." Not a great look. I was always taught to be a sportsman. To play the game within the rules/laws to the best of my ability. Yes, there may be a lot at stake at this level of the game, but ultimately these players are role models for kids at schools and clubs learning the basics. And if the professional international players aren't getting the basics right how can we expect coaches at junior levels to persuade youngsters to get it right?

The other thing MJ said though was that players need to adapt. If you keep getting pinged for things then stop it - and it comes back to the lack of ability to modify the game plan or approach to match the conditions, opposition or the ref. To my untrained eye officiating and interpretations are much more uniform across countries of origin now - interpretations used to be wildy different, and teams needed to adapt.