England cricket, summer 2021
Discussion
I’m beginning to think that Test cricket simply isn’t much of a draw for young aspiring cricketers, it’s bloody hard work, there aren’t really many opportunities outside of the quite frankly rather tedious County Championship and I imagine the possibilities of lucrative foreign contracts are much more appealing to most young players, who end up specialising in T20.
I would caution that I've heard there is some commercial incentives that likely skew results and ICC rankings. Australia, England and India play each other far more frequently in ODI and Test format than they typically would other teams and that comes down to commercial interest in those lucrative high view count games.
The international game is therefore kind of split in a way that out-weighs small nations on the ICC ranking because they don't play the other three more commercially lucrative teams as frequently. Outside of ICC competitions you're far more likely to see teams like SA, NZ, WI, Pakistan and Sri Lanka play each other in ODIs and Tests.
The international game is therefore kind of split in a way that out-weighs small nations on the ICC ranking because they don't play the other three more commercially lucrative teams as frequently. Outside of ICC competitions you're far more likely to see teams like SA, NZ, WI, Pakistan and Sri Lanka play each other in ODIs and Tests.
Murph7355 said:
Gargamel said:
Some stats - and an interesting knifein the ribs on Roots judgement as a skipper
Zaltzman...
Joe Root has gone five Tests without a half-century. It is the first time in his entire Test career that he has had a five-Test sequence without a fifty.
Prior to that he'd made those three huge centuries, including two double centuries.
Looking at his home form, since the Headingley Test of 2017, when he declared against West Indies and England lost, he is averaging 31 with just one hundred in 37 innings.
The challenge would be who to give the Captain's role to. Root needs to give it up.Zaltzman...
Joe Root has gone five Tests without a half-century. It is the first time in his entire Test career that he has had a five-Test sequence without a fifty.
Prior to that he'd made those three huge centuries, including two double centuries.
Looking at his home form, since the Headingley Test of 2017, when he declared against West Indies and England lost, he is averaging 31 with just one hundred in 37 innings.
Then we have Crawley...best innings of 17....for him that's a strong performance as it matches the total for his last 6 innings before this series!
When the two openers have a good innings it feels more lucky than good.
I don't believe these guys aren't talented. So what is it that's causing these dire performances? Coaching? Mental strength (I suspect this has much to do with it)? Playing players out of position? Too much cricket?
Whatever it is needs fixing. But unfortunately I don't see the England team being any kind of threat until Root is dropped as captain.
And if the central contracts do have the value noted above, they need restructuring IMO to have the vast majority geared as win bonuses. If they then don't want to play for England, then they don't have to. When the team has some fire up it, it does well. Something needs to instill fire, not just a loss (this one will have faded before India arrive...I'm wondering if we'll even make my Day 2 tickets against them at the moment!
It is going to be a very long summer and a worse winter I fear. I really don’t see how over the next five test matches they find a side that is anywhere near competing with Australia. You can argue that of the five or six World Class players England have three haven’t been available (Archer, Stokes and Buttler) so that is some excuse. However, whilst they say you can’t win a match if you don’t take 20 wickets you also don;t win a match without a function batting unit,
The frustrating thing is there have been plenty of journeyman batsmen fo through the England revolving doors over the last five years without ever looking like proper test batsmen but all of Crawley, Pope, Burns and Lawrence have played innings which tell you they can do it. Can’t say the same for Sibley….yes he’s got some scores but he scores far too slowly and I think he’ll come really unstuck in Australia.
I enjoyed Nasser Hussain's rant! He's right about weird techniques being found out. I guess scoring bucket loads of county runs doesn't actually count for much in the test arena; if it did Hick and Ramprakash would be legends. There seems to be either an attitude problem, or technical issues which aren't being addressed by the coaches.. Entertainment does not mean trying to bray the ball all over the park from the first over. There's as much pleasure in watching a Tavare grinding down bowlers and resisting all temptation as there is in Viv Richards style bullying, and in a long match both are viable options. I have no idea why there has to be a rush to score runs. Postivity doesn't equate to taking on every ball, but defensiveness also doesn't mean timid and unsure.
My concern is the new guys have been found wanting. On being dropped they will invariably go back to their counties and score runs for fun, Unfortunately I don't think the likes of Bairstow and Buttler are the answer either, although both have experience and that does count. I see nothing other than drubbings coming up because of a lack of clear thinking, complete lack of leadership from Root in person and with bat, and utter lack of confidence. Unless injured no batsman needs to rested.
As for Root's "not the time to panic" he's right, but in the not in the way he thinks. That time is long gone, I'd take the captaincy from him because history of English cricket has always told us burdening the best batsman with the role never works long term. I suspect he'd be far more inspirational scoring runs than taking team meetings.
My concern is the new guys have been found wanting. On being dropped they will invariably go back to their counties and score runs for fun, Unfortunately I don't think the likes of Bairstow and Buttler are the answer either, although both have experience and that does count. I see nothing other than drubbings coming up because of a lack of clear thinking, complete lack of leadership from Root in person and with bat, and utter lack of confidence. Unless injured no batsman needs to rested.
As for Root's "not the time to panic" he's right, but in the not in the way he thinks. That time is long gone, I'd take the captaincy from him because history of English cricket has always told us burdening the best batsman with the role never works long term. I suspect he'd be far more inspirational scoring runs than taking team meetings.
The gap between county and test level is too great for county games to be a useful development arena. The easy way of raising standards quickly would be to have more foreigners playing at county level. A maximum of four on the field for each team would still mean plenty of opportunities for young players to develop but you'd also have a far higher standard of play, players that would drag in more people through the turnstiles and a significant reduction in the gap between county and test matches.
Stan the Bat said:
Who would we give the captaincy to ?
Root seems too 'nice' as well, need a bit of a bd in there.
Broad would be comedy, 2 overs and the reviews would be gone.Root seems too 'nice' as well, need a bit of a bd in there.
I don't think there's any likely candidates, Root seems to be the only batsman (along with Burns maybe) that's not going to be rested and with Anderson and Broad on limited time who would we pick? I wouldn't be against Morgan coming in, but maybe that ship has sailed.
I would love to see Morgan in as captain, he is proper captain material, a steady reassuring presence on the field, even when things are looking bad. It's all about demeanour and body language, he exudes confidence and has the record to back it up. Yes he isn't exactly a long term solution and he is a limited overs specialist but he must have transferable skills.
Newarch said:
I would love to see Morgan in as captain, he is proper captain material, a steady reassuring presence on the field, even when things are looking bad. It's all about demeanour and body language, he exudes confidence and has the record to back it up. Yes he isn't exactly a long term solution and he is a limited overs specialist but he must have transferable skills.
his body would fall apart on day 3 of a test, there's a reason he only plays one day stuff.... and talking of stuff, as far as test team captaincy goes, we're stuffed.Cheib said:
I think it was Vaughan that said the rot set it when they started messing around with the side in India because of Covid/IPL….and I think he’s relight. We had a poor batting line up before then but now it is just woeful.
It is going to be a very long summer and a worse winter I fear. I really don’t see how over the next five test matches they find a side that is anywhere near competing with Australia. You can argue that of the five or six World Class players England have three haven’t been available (Archer, Stokes and Buttler) so that is some excuse. However, whilst they say you can’t win a match if you don’t take 20 wickets you also don;t win a match without a function batting unit,
The frustrating thing is there have been plenty of journeyman batsmen fo through the England revolving doors over the last five years without ever looking like proper test batsmen but all of Crawley, Pope, Burns and Lawrence have played innings which tell you they can do it. Can’t say the same for Sibley….yes he’s got some scores but he scores far too slowly and I think he’ll come really unstuck in Australia.
I know they have struggled a bit due to the covid bubbles and not being able to bring players in at the drop of a hat, but they could have called back in Woakes and a few IPL players once they knew that was postponed. Bracey is not a great keeper, would Bairstow not have done better? It is going to be a very long summer and a worse winter I fear. I really don’t see how over the next five test matches they find a side that is anywhere near competing with Australia. You can argue that of the five or six World Class players England have three haven’t been available (Archer, Stokes and Buttler) so that is some excuse. However, whilst they say you can’t win a match if you don’t take 20 wickets you also don;t win a match without a function batting unit,
The frustrating thing is there have been plenty of journeyman batsmen fo through the England revolving doors over the last five years without ever looking like proper test batsmen but all of Crawley, Pope, Burns and Lawrence have played innings which tell you they can do it. Can’t say the same for Sibley….yes he’s got some scores but he scores far too slowly and I think he’ll come really unstuck in Australia.
The County to Test jump is significant, but players are struggling at test level why not release them back to their counties to get some runs. There isnt any tests now until Aug, but I wonder if Crawley, Lawerence, Sibly will go back to counties and try and get some cricket and time in the middle?
As much as it feels like the end for Root as captain, and having him back to form as a batsman would be great, this and every other conversation demonstrates the problem that there is no nailed on alternative. I suppose nothing will happen this side of the Ashes so plenty more time to um and ah through the oncoming disappointment.
Burns I like a lot, and he has Surrey captaincy going for him, but don't think he's quite established enough in this side yet.
Stokes - massive presence but wouldn't want to hinder his ability to pull one out the bag when we really need it.
Broad - love him to bits and my favourite team character by a long way, but no. Maybe if someone else was in charge of the reviews...
So it's really Buttler by default isn't it. The only thing is whether being Test and (eventually) ODI captain, and being a WK batsman across all formats, would be asking too much of him. Would be a nice opportunity to use Foakes but can't see them going down that path.
Burns I like a lot, and he has Surrey captaincy going for him, but don't think he's quite established enough in this side yet.
Stokes - massive presence but wouldn't want to hinder his ability to pull one out the bag when we really need it.
Broad - love him to bits and my favourite team character by a long way, but no. Maybe if someone else was in charge of the reviews...
So it's really Buttler by default isn't it. The only thing is whether being Test and (eventually) ODI captain, and being a WK batsman across all formats, would be asking too much of him. Would be a nice opportunity to use Foakes but can't see them going down that path.
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