The **BOXING** thread (Vol 4)

[trickywoo]

fridaypassion said:

Pugaris said:

Usyk is a better boxer. Also has a great chin

Could be a few quid to be made on this one!

I'm very much a back seat observer but kept hearing how good a boxer Usyk is so decided to watch some more fights.

I struggle to see anything special. Fury boxes like a smaller man than he is. Usyk, to me has a style bigger than he is.

I hope we see a Fury / Usyk fight with both in good health.

[Unreal]

trickywoo said:

fridaypassion said:

Pugaris said:

Usyk is a better boxer. Also has a great chin

Could be a few quid to be made on this one!

I'm very much a back seat observer but kept hearing how good a boxer Usyk is so decided to watch some more fights.

I struggle to see anything special. Fury boxes like a smaller man than he is. Usyk, to me has a style bigger than he is.

I hope we see a Fury / Usyk fight with both in good health.

That's why you're a back seat observer bud. Usyk is one of the very best boxers on the planet with an astonishing amateur and pro record. That you can't see anything special is a refection on your knowledge of the sport and not you personally.

[biggbn]

Unreal said:

trickywoo said:

fridaypassion said:

Pugaris said:

Usyk is a better boxer. Also has a great chin

Could be a few quid to be made on this one!

I'm very much a back seat observer but kept hearing how good a boxer Usyk is so decided to watch some more fights.

I struggle to see anything special. Fury boxes like a smaller man than he is. Usyk, to me has a style bigger than he is.

I hope we see a Fury / Usyk fight with both in good health.

That's why you're a back seat observer bud. Usyk is one of the very best boxers on the planet with an astonishing amateur and pro record. That you can't see anything special is a refection on your knowledge of the sport and not you personally.

I think Usky is perhaps the greatest cruiserweight to have fought. Perhaps. But he has not impressed me as being at that sort of level at heavyweight yet. Aj Was made for him, an absolute nightmare for him. For me, if Usyk bears Fury he is one of the finest heavyweights of all time because I think Fury is that good. Casual boxing fans run him down but real fans, scholars of the sport, give him his dues regardless of whether they like him. I can't wait for the fight, but fear Joe Public might he disappointed with it. I can see it being a very cagey chess match as two of the divisiions finest boxing brains try to figure a way to win. Fury for me, but I wouldn't be surprised if Usyk has the key to unlock Fury. I think a fit, motivated Fury wins a competitive fight relatively easily...and there is a bombshell for you. But again, would not be surprised if Usyk rises to the occasion and shows his heavyweight ability. Either man will have to be at the top of their gane as anything other is gifting the fight to the other man. I cannot wait to watch this fight, I think it will be engrossing.

[trickywoo]

Unreal said:

That's why you're a back seat observer bud. Usyk is one of the very best boxers on the planet with an astonishing amateur and pro record. That you can't see anything special is a refection on your knowledge of the sport and not you personally.

He’s got zero power in his left hand for a start and was rattled late on by AJ who surely nobody is claiming as any kind of quality fighter.

[tuscaneer]

trickywoo said:

I'm very much a back seat observer but kept hearing how good a boxer Usyk is so decided to watch some more fights.

I struggle to see anything special. Fury boxes like a smaller man than he is. Usyk, to me has a style bigger than he is.

I hope we see a Fury / Usyk fight with both in good health.

Wow!....I don't really know where to start pal....a generational talent who mastered the amateur code winning an Olympic gold to boot then became arguably the greatest cruiserweight ever in arguably the toughest, deepest cruiserweight era before moving up to heavyweight and seizing all of Joshua's belts, beating him in the rematch (in arguably Joshua's best performance).... All the while beating a long list of absolute killers for their cruiserweight and heavyweight belts on away soil every single time...mate, he'd belong at or near the very top of the pile in ANY era

[trickywoo]

tuscaneer said:

Wow!....I don't really know where to start pal....a generational talent who mastered the amateur code winning an Olympic gold to boot then became arguably the greatest cruiserweight ever in arguably the toughest, deepest cruiserweight era before moving up to heavyweight and seizing all of Joshua's belts, beating him in the rematch (in arguably Joshua's best performance).... All the while beating a long list of absolute killers for their cruiserweight and heavyweight belts on away soil every single time...mate, he'd belong at or near the very top of the pile in ANY era

Genuine question, I’m not looking for an argument, how many cruiserweights have stepped up and dominated heavyweight?

[Pugaris]

trickywoo said:

He’s got zero power in his left hand for a start and was rattled late on by AJ who surely nobody is claiming as any kind of quality fighter.

AJ is a two-time heavyweight champion of the world. Anybody who claims he isn't a kind of quality fighter is smoking crack.

Power isn't everything, Usyk is a brilliant technical boxer with probably the best stamina in the game. He has elite footwork, he adjusts to his opponent in the ring in ways almost nobody has ever been capable of, he has a strong chin and even stronger will. I've been watching boxing intensively for 30 years and Usyk is one of the most talented fighters I've ever seen and I would say the best P4P fighter of his generation.

Fury is the best HW of his generation - it's an incredible fight.

Also, 'zero power' is wrong.

[biggbn]

Pugaris said:

trickywoo said:

He’s got zero power in his left hand for a start and was rattled late on by AJ who surely nobody is claiming as any kind of quality fighter.

AJ is a two-time heavyweight champion of the world. Anybody who claims he isn't a kind of quality fighter is smoking crack.

Power isn't everything, Usyk is a brilliant technical boxer with probably the best stamina in the game. He has elite footwork, he adjusts to his opponent in the ring in ways almost nobody has ever been capable of, he has a strong chin and even stronger will. I've been watching boxing intensively for 30 years and Usyk is one of the most talented fighters I've ever seen and I would say the best P4P fighter of his generation.

Fury is the best HW of his generation - it's an incredible fight.

Also, 'zero power' is wrong.

Both fighters have power, and their timing accentuates that. When Fury chooses to plant his feet he can wallop, but those innocuous looking pecking jabs and body shots on the fly are also hurtful and bang fighters up.

[tuscaneer]

trickywoo said:

Genuine question, I’m not looking for an argument, how many cruiserweights have stepped up and dominated heavyweight?

Very very few .. the difference in size is pretty massive ... But that question is not the same as saying you don't see anything special in him...

[tuscaneer]

trickywoo said:

He’s got zero power in his left hand for a start and was rattled late on by AJ who surely nobody is claiming as any kind of quality fighter.

So much that is wide of the mark here dude .. I'm starting to get the feeling you're on the wind up....

[biggbn]

tuscaneer said:

trickywoo said:

Genuine question, I’m not looking for an argument, how many cruiserweights have stepped up and dominated heavyweight?

Very very few .. the difference in size is pretty massive ... But that question is not the same as saying you don't see anything special in him...

I've yet to see the same aura of invincibility at heavy. He looked briefly fragllile v AJ and it was his wil and skill that kept him in that fight after two fraught rounds. Bear in mind, AJ was made for him, relatively immobile, easy to hit, struggles against smaller men with fast hands. AJ may be an elite fighter at heavyweight; I have never thought he was, but he was the heavyweight Usyk would have prayed to fight. He is however a very special fighter, I have no doubt about that

[tuscaneer]

biggbn said:

I've yet to see the same aura of invincibility at heavy. He looked briefly fragllile v AJ and it was his wil and skill that kept him in that fight after two fraught rounds. Bear in mind, AJ was made for him, relatively immobile, easy to hit, struggles against smaller men with fast hands. AJ may be an elite fighter at heavyweight; I have never thought he was, but he was the heavyweight Usyk would have prayed to fight. He is however a very special fighter, I have no doubt about that

I tend to feel Joshua is massively underrated whereas fury is massively overrated... Maybe not massively but you get my drift ... Fury employs a lot of smoke and mirrors.... His heavyweight "aura" has been built on that abortion of a fight against wlad (no need for me to go over old ground here but we all know why he ran for the hills rather than honour the rematch clause) then 3 fights against wilder... Utter st boxer and one trick pony... Sure, a neat trick when he catches them but fk me, the skill levels of a D grade fighter with a record to match......

Fury looked good of course, but then his dance partner allowed him to look that good ...

[ThisInJapanese]

There is a lot of interesting fights coming up in the heavyweight division.

Big Baby Miller is coming back this weekend (can't see it on any UK TV though)
Joyce Vs Zhang in the battle of the big lads
Fury Vs Usyk
Joshua vs Franklin

Should all be interesting in their own way.

[Pugaris]

Miller weighed in at 330lbs 😂

[Pugaris]

tuscaneer said:

Very very few .. the difference in size is pretty massive ... But that question is not the same as saying you don't see anything special in him...

Also a relatively new division, lots of 70s and 80s HWs who could have been a CW to start.

Last time we saw a CW as good as Usyk, he did alright at HW...

[ThisInJapanese]

Pugaris said:

Miller weighed in at 330lbs ??

Jeez

Write him off then.

[biggbn]

tuscaneer said:

biggbn said:

I've yet to see the same aura of invincibility at heavy. He looked briefly fragllile v AJ and it was his wil and skill that kept him in that fight after two fraught rounds. Bear in mind, AJ was made for him, relatively immobile, easy to hit, struggles against smaller men with fast hands. AJ may be an elite fighter at heavyweight; I have never thought he was, but he was the heavyweight Usyk would have prayed to fight. He is however a very special fighter, I have no doubt about that

I tend to feel Joshua is massively underrated whereas fury is massively overrated... Maybe not massively but you get my drift ... Fury employs a lot of smoke and mirrors.... His heavyweight "aura" has been built on that abortion of a fight against wlad (no need for me to go over old ground here but we all know why he ran for the hills rather than honour the rematch clause) then 3 fights against wilder... Utter st boxer and one trick pony... Sure, a neat trick when he catches them but fk me, the skill levels of a D grade fighter with a record to match......

Fury looked good of course, but then his dance partner allowed him to look that good ...

I really don't see that. Great movement, great feet, fast hands, brilliant, yes, brilliant boxing brain and a fantastic sense of spatial awareness. He can fight on the outside and the inside and has beaten every man he faced. AJ was a very good heavy, perhaps still is, but he was an 'a to b' fighter, did the basics very well but couldn't deviate fron that route once he'd set on down it. I still make him top four in the world but I'd take both Joyce and 'one trick' Wilder to beat him. I think we have agreed to disagree before but I feel exactly opposite to you, I think AJ has been very overated whilst Fury has even overlooked from a boxing point of view.

Edit, I've said this before, the AJ that lost to Usyk the second time gives ANY heavyweight a good run. His best ever performance

Edited by biggbn on Friday 17th March 19:04

[fridaypassion]

Franklin to beat AJ there you go I said it.

Franklin was totally robbed he convincingly won his last fight and I think he only needs to catch AJ and he's done. I really think he can do it but AJ will hopefully come out a new man not gun-shy AJ!

[epom]

ThisInJapanese said:

Pugaris said:

Miller weighed in at 330lbs ??

Jeez

Write him off then.

Roll him off even.

[Pugaris]

biggbn said:

I really don't see that. Great movement, great feet, fast hands, brilliant, yes, brilliant boxing brain and a fantastic sense of spatial awareness. He can fight on the outside and the inside and has beaten every man he faced. AJ was a very good heavy, perhaps still is, but he was an 'a to b' fighter, did the basics very well but couldn't deviate fron that route once he'd set on down it. I still make him top four in the world but I'd take both Joyce and 'one trick' Wilder to beat him. I think we have agreed to disagree before but I feel exactly opposite to you, I think AJ has been very overated whilst Fury has even overlooked from a boxing point of view.

Edit, I've said this before, the AJ that lost to Usyk the second time gives ANY heavyweight a good run. His best ever performance

Edited by biggbn on Friday 17th March 19:04

Agree with all of this completely (but also everything Tusc said about Wilder.)

If you dropped the current crop of HWs into any era, Usyk and Fury would be competitive with the very top guys, AJ and Wilder wouldn't be, though they'd still be fun top 10 additions.

AJ is an improved version of Bruno. Better gas tank and better at dealing with getting hurt but still has those two things as weaknesses to his game. Similar to Bruno in that he's a very good fundamentals boxer with heavy hands but AJ's bigger and his mid-range game is an improvement of Frank's.

Fury is a special fighter, no doubt. He's a very intelligent fighter and that shows in his decisions out of the ring as well, as soon as he a) realised the way to beat Wilder was to keep him on the backfoot based on his 12th round in the first fight and the Ortiz rematch after and b) that he doesn't quite have the speed and movement he once did he knew exactly which coach to bring in to train him. He also knocked Dillian Whyte out with the first uppercut he threw all night, perfectly baited and executed.

Usyk is special, too. Even moreso imo. His ability to adjust to his opponent is a level of ring intelligence I think is superior to even Fury's and his lateral movement is superb to watch. Some of the subtle things he did to distract AJ in their first fight were brilliant and his fight against Gassiev is the most perfectly executed 12 rounds of boxing I've seen since probably Calzaghe Vs Lacey.

This is a fight on a level of skill and ability we haven't seen in the HW division for 30 years imo. It's Lewis Vs Holyfield or Holyfield Vs Bowe type levels.