Discussion
Road2Ruin said:
Kermit power said:
Catweazle said:
Another match ruined by a s
t red card decision.
Jesus! Can people stop sprouting such utter bloody nonsense just because there's been a card???t red card decision. We've just had a decent tussle, Ireland have had to fight hard for the win, and it's not the card that made the difference, it was just Ireland's ability to finish their relatively few opportunities more clinically.
Whining about cards is just disrespectful to the players on both sides and the effort they put in.
As for the card itself, if Steward had enough time to turn away like that, then he had enough time to dip and tackle. His fault, end of.
Crappy red card decision.
TopTrump said:
Kermit power said:
Jesus! Can people stop sprouting such utter bloody nonsense just because there's been a card???
We've just had a decent tussle, Ireland have had to fight hard for the win, and it's not the card that made the difference, it was just Ireland's ability to finish their relatively few opportunities more clinically.
Whining about cards is just disrespectful to the players on both sides and the effort they put in.
As for the card itself, if Steward had enough time to turn away like that, then he had enough time to dip and tackle. His fault, end of.
Why are we not allowed oh mighty one? It totally changed the game, he was bracing for impact. Well played both sides! We've just had a decent tussle, Ireland have had to fight hard for the win, and it's not the card that made the difference, it was just Ireland's ability to finish their relatively few opportunities more clinically.
Whining about cards is just disrespectful to the players on both sides and the effort they put in.
As for the card itself, if Steward had enough time to turn away like that, then he had enough time to dip and tackle. His fault, end of.
I, like every single ex-player who has posted on social media, thought that was an utterly nonsense red card. It wasn't a tackle, there was no foul play, and there was no force. A yellow would have almost been harsh.
C70R said:
Indeed. Imagine thinking you can tell people what they are allowed to discuss.
I, like every single ex-player who has posted on social media, thought that was an utterly nonsense red card. It wasn't a tackle, there was no foul play, and there was no force. A yellow would have almost been harsh.
Precisely I, like every single ex-player who has posted on social media, thought that was an utterly nonsense red card. It wasn't a tackle, there was no foul play, and there was no force. A yellow would have almost been harsh.
C70R said:
Indeed. Imagine thinking you can tell people what they are allowed to discuss.
I, like every single ex-player who has posted on social media, thought that was an utterly nonsense red card. It wasn't a tackle, there was no foul play, and there was no force. A yellow would have almost been harsh.
Issue is they are trying to protect players, and Steward was unlucky but he turned his shoulder and elbow smashed the Irish player straight in the head. In todays rules it’s a red. I, like every single ex-player who has posted on social media, thought that was an utterly nonsense red card. It wasn't a tackle, there was no foul play, and there was no force. A yellow would have almost been harsh.
Challo said:
C70R said:
Indeed. Imagine thinking you can tell people what they are allowed to discuss.
I, like every single ex-player who has posted on social media, thought that was an utterly nonsense red card. It wasn't a tackle, there was no foul play, and there was no force. A yellow would have almost been harsh.
Issue is they are trying to protect players, and Steward was unlucky but he turned his shoulder and elbow smashed the Irish player straight in the head. In todays rules it’s a red. I, like every single ex-player who has posted on social media, thought that was an utterly nonsense red card. It wasn't a tackle, there was no foul play, and there was no force. A yellow would have almost been harsh.
Unreal said:
Challo said:
C70R said:
Indeed. Imagine thinking you can tell people what they are allowed to discuss.
I, like every single ex-player who has posted on social media, thought that was an utterly nonsense red card. It wasn't a tackle, there was no foul play, and there was no force. A yellow would have almost been harsh.
Issue is they are trying to protect players, and Steward was unlucky but he turned his shoulder and elbow smashed the Irish player straight in the head. In todays rules it’s a red. I, like every single ex-player who has posted on social media, thought that was an utterly nonsense red card. It wasn't a tackle, there was no foul play, and there was no force. A yellow would have almost been harsh.
Challo said:
Issue is they are trying to protect players, and Steward was unlucky but he turned his shoulder and elbow smashed the Irish player straight in the head. In todays rules it’s a red.
and yet if he hadn't turned and braced for impact it might have been him injured. All in all it was unfortunate and 'a rugby incident' but by the current rules it's unquestionably a red. Whether the rules are a little too inflexible is open to debate (and there needs to be more done to stop players leading with their head, seen many times per match) but there has to be a halfway house between what the French prop did last week, the Scottish lad in the same game and Freddie...C70R said:
TopTrump said:
Kermit power said:
Jesus! Can people stop sprouting such utter bloody nonsense just because there's been a card???
We've just had a decent tussle, Ireland have had to fight hard for the win, and it's not the card that made the difference, it was just Ireland's ability to finish their relatively few opportunities more clinically.
Whining about cards is just disrespectful to the players on both sides and the effort they put in.
As for the card itself, if Steward had enough time to turn away like that, then he had enough time to dip and tackle. His fault, end of.
Why are we not allowed oh mighty one? It totally changed the game, he was bracing for impact. Well played both sides! We've just had a decent tussle, Ireland have had to fight hard for the win, and it's not the card that made the difference, it was just Ireland's ability to finish their relatively few opportunities more clinically.
Whining about cards is just disrespectful to the players on both sides and the effort they put in.
As for the card itself, if Steward had enough time to turn away like that, then he had enough time to dip and tackle. His fault, end of.
I, like every single ex-player who has posted on social media, thought that was an utterly nonsense red card. It wasn't a tackle, there was no foul play, and there was no force. A yellow would have almost been harsh.
Whoever said "Oh, it's okay to pick up a forward pass and run into someone now, is it", yes! Of course it bloody is, and always has been! That's what rugby is! It'll be a mantra at clubs across the country in the morning... "Run straight, take the contact, go to ground and present the ball". No club in the land is going to be leading with "be careful not to run into anyone when you've got the ball"!
One of the very first things we teach kids is "play to the whistle". If Keenan had decided it looked forward so he'd better just leave it, then Steward had picked the ball up on the advantage and run the ball up the pitch to score, he would've been quite rightly criticised for it. The only option available to him was to pick up the ball and go.
Once Keenan had picked the ball up and gone, the only option available to Steward was to tackle him, and the fact that he didn't, and instead tried to turn round is just utterly incomprehensible. It's not as though the risk of facing a red card for head contact - whether intentional or otherwise - is new, and Steward isn't a plumber playing at level 6 for the love of the game, he's supposed to be a professional at the peak of the game. If he has the time to turn sideways on to the oncoming player, then he also had time to dip in to make the tackle.
Kermit power said:
Once Keenan had picked the ball up and gone, the only option available to Steward was to tackle him, and the fact that he didn't, and instead tried to turn round is just utterly incomprehensible. …
If he has the time to turn sideways on to the oncoming player, then he also had time to dip in to make the tackle.
This all sounds somewhat plausible until you rewatch the clip in real time. If he has the time to turn sideways on to the oncoming player, then he also had time to dip in to make the tackle.
From the time Keenan gathers the ball to impact is roughly a tenth of a second. Keenan has to bend to gather the ball, so his head once he has the ball is around the level of the bottom of Steward’s rib cage, and the furthest forward part of Keenan’s body.
Had Steward tried to make the tackle he would have hit Keenan’s head no matter what. Worst case would have been head on head impact.
TLDR: Keenan ran at pace head first into a defender. The defender gets sent off. Apply that rule religiously and the first dozen phases of a match with forwards as first receiver should leave you with a game of sevens for 70 minutes.
The protocol seems not to focus on mitigation sufficiently. IMO.
TopTrump said:
Kermit power said:
Jesus! Can people stop sprouting such utter bloody nonsense just because there's been a card???
We've just had a decent tussle, Ireland have had to fight hard for the win, and it's not the card that made the difference, it was just Ireland's ability to finish their relatively few opportunities more clinically.
Whining about cards is just disrespectful to the players on both sides and the effort they put in.
As for the card itself, if Steward had enough time to turn away like that, then he had enough time to dip and tackle. His fault, end of.
Why are we not allowed oh mighty one? It totally changed the game, he was bracing for an illegal impact. Well played both sides! We've just had a decent tussle, Ireland have had to fight hard for the win, and it's not the card that made the difference, it was just Ireland's ability to finish their relatively few opportunities more clinically.
Whining about cards is just disrespectful to the players on both sides and the effort they put in.
As for the card itself, if Steward had enough time to turn away like that, then he had enough time to dip and tackle. His fault, end of.
Catweazle said:
Kermit power said:
Jesus! Can people stop sprouting such utter bloody nonsense just because there's been a card???
We've just had a decent tussle, Ireland have had to fight hard for the win, and it's not the card that made the difference, it was just Ireland's ability to finish their relatively few opportunities more clinically.
Whining about cards is just disrespectful to the players on both sides and the effort they put in.
As for the card itself, if Steward had enough time to turn away like that, then he had enough time to dip and tackle. His fault, end of.
And the ball carrier has enough time to change direction and avoid contact altogether. We've just had a decent tussle, Ireland have had to fight hard for the win, and it's not the card that made the difference, it was just Ireland's ability to finish their relatively few opportunities more clinically.
Whining about cards is just disrespectful to the players on both sides and the effort they put in.
As for the card itself, if Steward had enough time to turn away like that, then he had enough time to dip and tackle. His fault, end of.
Kermit power said:
C70R said:
TopTrump said:
Kermit power said:
Jesus! Can people stop sprouting such utter bloody nonsense just because there's been a card???
We've just had a decent tussle, Ireland have had to fight hard for the win, and it's not the card that made the difference, it was just Ireland's ability to finish their relatively few opportunities more clinically.
Whining about cards is just disrespectful to the players on both sides and the effort they put in.
As for the card itself, if Steward had enough time to turn away like that, then he had enough time to dip and tackle. His fault, end of.
Why are we not allowed oh mighty one? It totally changed the game, he was bracing for impact. Well played both sides! We've just had a decent tussle, Ireland have had to fight hard for the win, and it's not the card that made the difference, it was just Ireland's ability to finish their relatively few opportunities more clinically.
Whining about cards is just disrespectful to the players on both sides and the effort they put in.
As for the card itself, if Steward had enough time to turn away like that, then he had enough time to dip and tackle. His fault, end of.
I, like every single ex-player who has posted on social media, thought that was an utterly nonsense red card. It wasn't a tackle, there was no foul play, and there was no force. A yellow would have almost been harsh.
Whoever said "Oh, it's okay to pick up a forward pass and run into someone now, is it", yes! Of course it bloody is, and always has been! That's what rugby is! It'll be a mantra at clubs across the country in the morning... "Run straight, take the contact, go to ground and present the ball". No club in the land is going to be leading with "be careful not to run into anyone when you've got the ball"!
One of the very first things we teach kids is "play to the whistle". If Keenan had decided it looked forward so he'd better just leave it, then Steward had picked the ball up on the advantage and run the ball up the pitch to score, he would've been quite rightly criticised for it. The only option available to him was to pick up the ball and go.
Once Keenan had picked the ball up and gone, the only option available to Steward was to tackle him, and the fact that he didn't, and instead tried to turn round is just utterly incomprehensible. It's not as though the risk of facing a red card for head contact - whether intentional or otherwise - is new, and Steward isn't a plumber playing at level 6 for the love of the game, he's supposed to be a professional at the peak of the game. If he has the time to turn sideways on to the oncoming player, then he also had time to dip in to make the tackle.
Gweeds said:
LastPoster said:
So you can pick up a clear forward pass and run into someone now then?
Apparently so. That’s a fking shocking miss by literally every official. abzmike said:
About half a dozen forward passes have been missed in every 6N game this year.
Keep up with the Laws fellas. The 'forward pass; Law was replaced by the 'throw forward' Law ages ago, and they are totally different definitions. The ball can go 'forwards' from one player to another perfectly legally.The ref indicated and blew up for the forward pass just before contact occurred. See here:
https://www.planetrugby.com/news/watch-fans-divide...
Makes no difference in the light of the subsequent foul play, of course.
https://www.planetrugby.com/news/watch-fans-divide...
Makes no difference in the light of the subsequent foul play, of course.
Bonefish Blues said:
The ref indicated and blew up for the forward pass just before contact occurred. See here:
https://www.planetrugby.com/news/watch-fans-divide...
Makes no difference in the light of the subsequent foul play, of course.
Which is why, quite possibly (or probably) Steward was pulling out of the tackle and trying to protect himself from the imminent collision. Quite obviously there was no intent.https://www.planetrugby.com/news/watch-fans-divide...
Makes no difference in the light of the subsequent foul play, of course.
The ref could have easily called it as a rugby incident.
Or he could have gone to the protocol and decided that the mitigation was that there had been a forward pass, the ref had blown, Steward was upright and trying to avoid a collision, lack of intent, and Keenan was head down already. Could have called it as a penalty or yellow.
But he decided that it was in the same bracket as the Houas head on head clearout a few games earlier, one with premeditation against an opponent who was out of the game and not expecting contact, and with a huge degree of risk.
If that last interpretation is how the rules are expected to operate then it needs to be changed or the TMO needs to look at all the other arm on head interactions that take place during any game. Bizarrely I can see almost no mention of the neck wrap tackle on Watson that led to the second Irish try.
TopTrump said:
XCP said:
I reckon Richard Smith KC, the England lawyer, might be busy in the next few days. Richard used to play at my club and got the England job in 2003 when Martin Johnson apparently said that he wanted him, having faced him at a disciplinary.
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