GOLF - 2024

[bodhi]

leglessAlex said:

I’ve still not braved the mushy ground for an actual round of golf, but I did treat myself to a (totally unjustified) new toy



I absolutely love it. It feels great, seems fairly easy to hit and goes about 200 carry with my 128mph ball speed. That’s the maximum I can do at the moment, if I try putting more effort in the swing gets worse.

The idea is that I’m going to use it at 14deg and it’ll sit between my 18deg 5W and eventually a 10.5deg Driver.

Will admit I've been looking at these, and if I hadn't been told on multiple occasions in no uncertain terms not to get rid of my 3 Wood I'd be very interested in trying one out. Fleetwood uses his to great effect and I love the retro headcover it comes with.

You may well find you don't actually need a Driver with this in the bag - as Duncan mentioned 200 yards carry is plenty and if straight won't get in the way of shooting some pretty good scores.

[RayDonovan]

bodhi said:

leglessAlex said:

I’ve still not braved the mushy ground for an actual round of golf, but I did treat myself to a (totally unjustified) new toy



I absolutely love it. It feels great, seems fairly easy to hit and goes about 200 carry with my 128mph ball speed. That’s the maximum I can do at the moment, if I try putting more effort in the swing gets worse.

The idea is that I’m going to use it at 14deg and it’ll sit between my 18deg 5W and eventually a 10.5deg Driver.

Will admit I've been looking at these, and if I hadn't been told on multiple occasions in no uncertain terms not to get rid of my 3 Wood I'd be very interested in trying one out. Fleetwood uses his to great effect and I love the retro headcover it comes with.

You may well find you don't actually need a Driver with this in the bag - as Duncan mentioned 200 yards carry is plenty and if straight won't get in the way of shooting some pretty good scores.

100%
I'm adamant that all you need for the majority of UK courses from yellow tees is something you can bump 200 yards.

[DuncanM]

danneth said:

More on this ball which is impressive, pro v1 video is the next video tm be released.

https://youtu.be/kJEjqXtVENs?si=xVq8zgG_-N4sqh2Y

If the ball isn't Urethane, then it's not really an amazing bargain. Urethane cover is what makes all the difference, if people want distance balls, there's loads to choose from, and £14 a doz isn't even great value.

Impressive extra ball speed sure, but it's exactly what I'd expect from a distance ball.

[DuncanM]

bodhi said:

Will admit I've been looking at these, and if I hadn't been told on multiple occasions in no uncertain terms not to get rid of my 3 Wood I'd be very interested in trying one out. Fleetwood uses his to great effect and I love the retro headcover it comes with.

You may well find you don't actually need a Driver with this in the bag - as Duncan mentioned 200 yards carry is plenty and if straight won't get in the way of shooting some pretty good scores.

A lot of players swapping out 3w for one of these, I think that could be a great move

[bodhi]

DuncanM said:

A lot of players swapping out 3w for one of these, I think that could be a great move

A normal 3 wood I'd agree, but you'll prise my 917 F3 out of my cold, dead hands

Seriously it's about 20 yards longer than anything else I've tried, including the newest Titleist models. Must be a unicorn head/shaft combo, as I've never seen anything like it.

I'm on my 3rd Driver trying to pull out a gap to it - even the 917 Driver with the same model shaft (Rogue Max X Stiff) was only 10 yards longer on a decent hit.

[DuncanM]

bodhi said:

A normal 3 wood I'd agree, but you'll prise my 917 F3 out of my cold, dead hands

Seriously it's about 20 yards longer than anything else I've tried, including the newest Titleist models. Must be a unicorn head/shaft combo, as I've never seen anything like it.

I'm on my 3rd Driver trying to pull out a gap to it - even the 917 Driver with the same model shaft (Rogue Max X Stiff) was only 10 yards longer on a decent hit.

Ahh, well I hope you keep it somewhere safe!

[48Valves]

bodhi said:

DuncanM said:

A lot of players swapping out 3w for one of these, I think that could be a great move

A normal 3 wood I'd agree, but you'll prise my 917 F3 out of my cold, dead hands

Seriously it's about 20 yards longer than anything else I've tried, including the newest Titleist models. Must be a unicorn head/shaft combo, as I've never seen anything like it.

I'm on my 3rd Driver trying to pull out a gap to it - even the 917 Driver with the same model shaft (Rogue Max X Stiff) was only 10 yards longer on a decent hit.

I had a Cleveland Launcher 4 wood like that. It was like it had been blessed by a higher power. Until the shaft snapped and the hosel cracked when I hit a tree root. I’ve not had a top end fairway wood that good since.

[RayDonovan]

bodhi said:

DuncanM said:

A lot of players swapping out 3w for one of these, I think that could be a great move

A normal 3 wood I'd agree, but you'll prise my 917 F3 out of my cold, dead hands

Seriously it's about 20 yards longer than anything else I've tried, including the newest Titleist models. Must be a unicorn head/shaft combo, as I've never seen anything like it.

I'm on my 3rd Driver trying to pull out a gap to it - even the 917 Driver with the same model shaft (Rogue Max X Stiff) was only 10 yards longer on a decent hit.

I picked up a TSR 3 & 5 wood at the back end of 2023 and they've been really solid. The 5 wood is long. Think Justin Thomas still uses a 917 5 wood...

[bodhi]

48Valves said:

I had a Cleveland Launcher 4 wood like that. It was like it had been blessed by a higher power. Until the shaft snapped and the hosel cracked when I hit a tree root. I’ve not had a top end fairway wood that good since.

Funnily enough I only bought it as I snapped my old Vapor Fly 3 wood on a tree root. Ashamed to admit I was rage on my part, was 5 off the tee on the second hole of a 36 hole scratch comp and slammed it down on the ground, not realising there was a tree root in amongst the grass.

Oops.

I am on the lookout for a backup but there isn't much out there with the same shaft (Rogue Max X flex), so it will be will be treated with kid gloves, and I'll take any rage out on something else...

[fat80b]

RayDonovan said:

100%
I'm adamant that all you need for the majority of UK courses from yellow tees is something you can bump 200 yards.

Maybe - I used to agree and believed that this theory was a strength of my game..........

In my case; My summer distances are that my 3 wood goes 210-235, my 3 Hybrid goes 180-190 ish. I 'feel' like they are both pretty reliable and as such I rarely hit driver. I feel like I hit enough fairways with both of them and I'm only 10-15 yards behind those hitting driver their Sunday best. Playing partners often comment about how reliable I am off the tee.

Sounds great right? I have the required distance and people think I'm good off the tee.

......Unfortunately, Arccos tells me the exact opposite.

As what this actually translates to on the course is that my average driving distance (on par 4s and 5s) is actually 157 yards!! whereas a 20 handicapper averages 213 yards off the tee! Because of this, I am losing 3.4 shots per round to a 20 handicapper and then having to gain them back elsewhere.

Part of this is accuracy, and part of this is length (-1.9 distance, -0.5 accuracy, and -1.0 penalties).

Whilst the club averages are in the right area and you can feel as though you are doing what's required off the tee, the reality of Arccos / strokes gained doesn't actually back that up at least in my case.

I think my takeaway is that there is a difference between being able to hit >200 yds off the tee (even what feels like most of the time) and being able to average 200 yds off the tee, and those two things are (can be) quite different. My other takeaway is to get Arccos as you can't hide behind "I feel" with the actual numbers......much as I previously did.....

[Hammersia]

RayDonovan said:

100%
I'm adamant that all you need for the majority of UK courses from yellow tees is something you can bump 200 yards.

The vast, vast majority of people I play with are simply incapable of reliably bumping a shot 200 yards, as per the post above that strategy is more likely to result in a 157 yard average, and not noticeably straighter than the direction of a well fitted driver.

It is quite comical watching the mid and high handicappers taking 3 irons and 5 woods off our first hole which is a fairly stiff uphill par 4, hitting it basically nowhere (no warm up for them of course) and leaving themselves another 320 to go still with obstacles to go around.

All of them would have better stats just larruping a driver off most of our par 4s.

[theguvernor15]

I really need to re-gap myself, especially near the longer part of my bag.

My total driver distance is between 250-280 yards depedent upon strike/conditions.

But my next club is 4 wood (it's probably around 220-235 dependent upon strike), it is adjustable & i can hit it without issue on the range, but struggle on the course, i do believe it's the shaft, despite having a relatively respectable swing speed, i just struggle with heavier shafts in driver/fairways.

I do have a 7 wood, but that's the same sort of range as my 4 iron, which i don't really use, so i'm thinking about dropping the 4 wood, getting a 5 wood & dropping the 4 iron all together.

[48Valves]

Length off the tee can be a problem or not depending on the length of your course and scoring aspirations.

My course is 6750 off the back tees and 6550 of the yellows and windy. You really need to be hitting it comfortably over 200 yards off the tee if you want to regularly score in the 70s.

If you are happy over that then it’s possible to score in the 80s if you are accurate and have a good short game.

My old course was 5900 off the tips and 5600 of the yellows. You could score well hitting it 200 off the tee if you were accurate and had a good iron game.

[milesgiles]

Strokes Gained is worth understanding.. huge stats analysis of all types of golfer, what they score, and how.

When I learned the game thirty years ago it was definitely’hit the fairway’. Now, we know that is statistically wrong, and it’s hit it hard as possible off the tee unless a penalty area is tight to where you are aiming.

[leglessAlex]

fat80b said:

RayDonovan said:

100%
I'm adamant that all you need for the majority of UK courses from yellow tees is something you can bump 200 yards.

Maybe - I used to agree and believed that this theory was a strength of my game..........

In my case; My summer distances are that my 3 wood goes 210-235, my 3 Hybrid goes 180-190 ish. I 'feel' like they are both pretty reliable and as such I rarely hit driver. I feel like I hit enough fairways with both of them and I'm only 10-15 yards behind those hitting driver their Sunday best. Playing partners often comment about how reliable I am off the tee.

Sounds great right? I have the required distance and people think I'm good off the tee.

......Unfortunately, Arccos tells me the exact opposite.

As what this actually translates to on the course is that my average driving distance (on par 4s and 5s) is actually 157 yards!! whereas a 20 handicapper averages 213 yards off the tee! Because of this, I am losing 3.4 shots per round to a 20 handicapper and then having to gain them back elsewhere.

Part of this is accuracy, and part of this is length (-1.9 distance, -0.5 accuracy, and -1.0 penalties).

Whilst the club averages are in the right area and you can feel as though you are doing what's required off the tee, the reality of Arccos / strokes gained doesn't actually back that up at least in my case.

I think my takeaway is that there is a difference between being able to hit >200 yds off the tee (even what feels like most of the time) and being able to average 200 yds off the tee, and those two things are (can be) quite different. My other takeaway is to get Arccos as you can't hide behind "I feel" with the actual numbers......much as I previously did.....

That’s a really interesting post, and one of the reasons I’m super curious about Arccos.

Something I’m a little confused about though, what exactly is contributing to that reduction in average? I feel like you explained it with the shots lost to a 20hcp player but I don’t really understand how that actually translates to drives out on course.

Is it just simply the case that something like one in 6 drives gets topped/OB/just doesn’t go very far?

[Tycho]

leglessAlex said:

I’ve still not braved the mushy ground for an actual round of golf, but I did treat myself to a (totally unjustified) new toy



I absolutely love it. It feels great, seems fairly easy to hit and goes about 200 carry with my 128mph ball speed. That’s the maximum I can do at the moment, if I try putting more effort in the swing gets worse.

The idea is that I’m going to use it at 14deg and it’ll sit between my 18deg 5W and eventually a 10.5deg Driver.

I love the look of these and I'm really tempted to go and have a try of one. Are they still only mail order direct?

[leglessAlex]

Tycho said:

I love the look of these and I'm really tempted to go and have a try of one. Are they still only mail order direct?

I don’t think you can buy them new anymore in the UK, they certainly don’t seem to be on TaylorMade’s site for me and out of stock everywhere else.

I paid £250 for this one on Facebook Marketplace and it’s in great nick, but it seems that many want over £300 for them. Even at £250 I wasn’t sure about it, it’s nice but that much money gets you a great 3 wood.

[Tycho]

leglessAlex said:

Tycho said:

I love the look of these and I'm really tempted to go and have a try of one. Are they still only mail order direct?

I don’t think you can buy them new anymore in the UK, they certainly don’t seem to be on TaylorMade’s site for me and out of stock everywhere else.

I paid £250 for this one on Facebook Marketplace and it’s in great nick, but it seems that many want over £300 for them. Even at £250 I wasn’t sure about it, it’s nice but that much money gets you a great 3 wood.

Thanks for the info. The headcover alone is brilliant.

[DuncanM]

milesgiles said:

Strokes Gained is worth understanding.. huge stats analysis of all types of golfer, what they score, and how.

When I learned the game thirty years ago it was definitely’hit the fairway’. Now, we know that is statistically wrong, and it’s hit it hard as possible off the tee unless a penalty area is tight to where you are aiming.

There has to be a HC level crossover point imo, as there are loads of amateur golfers, with speed, but dreadful club face control. Telling them to hit dog everywhere, = slow rounds and lots of golf balls being lost/looked for.

Sidekick gives great advice, but he has speed, and a decent swing.

If you're trying to break 90, and even that's a stretch for the majority of golfers, then fairway is still more important than distance.

Hybrids make it even easier to have longer shots into holes.

[fat80b]

DuncanM said:

milesgiles said:

When I learned the game thirty years ago it was definitely’hit the fairway’. Now, we know that is statistically wrong, and it’s hit it hard as possible off the tee unless a penalty area is tight to where you are aiming.

There has to be a HC level crossover point imo, as there are loads of amateur golfers, with speed, but dreadful club face control. Telling them to hit dog everywhere, = slow rounds and lots of golf balls being lost/looked for.

That would be my experience as well - Several folks I play with can boom one a long way, but it's not much good if you also lose 3 or 4 balls off the tee and can't break 100. Clearly keeping the ball in play is the first path to better scores.

I suspect that HC crossover is somewhere near where I am (20 hcap). i.e. I am at a point where in order to get lower, I really do need to be a couple of clubs closer on approach, and Arccos is confirming that my biggest weakness is length off the tee.

But as well as being a function of skill / handicap level, maybe it's also a function of the course itself as to the best strategy. i.e. it isn't a one size fits all approach in terms of length at all costs.

Girton is quite tight (lots of trees, nasty bushes, and long ish rough in the summer) and also short (5812 off the yellows) and there are several holes where driver might not make sense anyway because of this.
The defense of the course is really the accuracy required / things like ditches off the tee that come into play with driver; Meaning the amateur bomb and gouge approach will result in a lot of time spent in the trees.

My own personal situation is that I know that I can score well enough round Girton without hitting driver, but I also know it's where I fall short particularly when away at longer courses. Put me on a longer course and I'm hitting 3 wood / hybrids as my second shot way too often so my current theory is that my path to getting better is to be longer off tee.......