NFL (no haters)
Discussion
I caught up with the game over social media this morning - some trashing of the refs for bad calls / favouring Brady but plenty of people saying zero tolerance reffing means adjusting quickly to not give away fouls etc.
I watched the 6min highlights on GamePass - a lot of drops by the KC offence and a lot of PH running around trying to get free which shows that TB defence was having a good game, putting on plenty of pressure.
Some American commentator called Brady the "best sportsman in the world" which got suitably dragged by many people for many reasons. He's arguably the GOAT QB given longevity, SB rings etc but that's about it.
I watched the 6min highlights on GamePass - a lot of drops by the KC offence and a lot of PH running around trying to get free which shows that TB defence was having a good game, putting on plenty of pressure.
Some American commentator called Brady the "best sportsman in the world" which got suitably dragged by many people for many reasons. He's arguably the GOAT QB given longevity, SB rings etc but that's about it.
Well he's a fair contender.
Bolt, Lewis, Moe, Hamilton,Schumacher, Pele, Ronaldo, Messi, Zidane, Maradona, Phelps, Spitz, Peaty, the pocket rocket American female gymnast, Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Don Bradman, Smashin Sachin, Lara, Valentino, Ainslie, Dalton Grant, Im so not touching cycling, Ali, Mayweather...am I missing anyone from the "other" roll call of sports?
Yanks will throw up Jordan, Kobe, LeBron James, Don Curry.
You have to say that he is completely in that conversation. Imagine Pele being that good in the no 10 slot for 20 yrs. Ronaldo and Messi come close, but they are years off and they don't take the beating like he does. Hamilton, Bolt, Phelps and Jordon probably come closest.
That is some bloody good company. Though if Ainslie wins the Americas and then has a go at the Vendee Id say him.
Bolt, Lewis, Moe, Hamilton,Schumacher, Pele, Ronaldo, Messi, Zidane, Maradona, Phelps, Spitz, Peaty, the pocket rocket American female gymnast, Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Don Bradman, Smashin Sachin, Lara, Valentino, Ainslie, Dalton Grant, Im so not touching cycling, Ali, Mayweather...am I missing anyone from the "other" roll call of sports?
Yanks will throw up Jordan, Kobe, LeBron James, Don Curry.
You have to say that he is completely in that conversation. Imagine Pele being that good in the no 10 slot for 20 yrs. Ronaldo and Messi come close, but they are years off and they don't take the beating like he does. Hamilton, Bolt, Phelps and Jordon probably come closest.
That is some bloody good company. Though if Ainslie wins the Americas and then has a go at the Vendee Id say him.
Gameface said:
Not looking to derail the topic but...
I personally don't think any driver can be included in that list.
The cars muddy the equation too much.
They really don't. Put a driver like Shuey or Hamilton in any car and they will shine. They wont win as easily against the opposition, but they will still smash their team mate consistently. It's a sport you can do a direct comparison with others if you know what you are looking at.I personally don't think any driver can be included in that list.
The cars muddy the equation too much.
Gameface said:
Not looking to derail the topic but...
I personally don't think any driver can be included in that list.
The cars muddy the equation too much.
Is it not the same for Messi / Ronaldo? They both played in bloody amazing teams and there's 10 other players on the pitch who feed them the balls and stop goals going in. A team performance is hard to isolate to one individual. I personally don't think any driver can be included in that list.
The cars muddy the equation too much.
Only solo sports such as Tennis, boxing etc. can it be solely attributed to the individual even though there's a whole team behind that individual as well.
They really do.
Do Bolts spikes give him an advantage over people?
No.
Did Ali's gloves give him an advantage over his opponents?
No.
Does Hamiltons Mercedes give him an advantage over the Haas drivers etc?
Yes.
I'm not getting into a debate about it. Wrong thread.
I've said my piece. Its my opinion and it's no less valid than yours.
Do Bolts spikes give him an advantage over people?
No.
Did Ali's gloves give him an advantage over his opponents?
No.
Does Hamiltons Mercedes give him an advantage over the Haas drivers etc?
Yes.
I'm not getting into a debate about it. Wrong thread.
I've said my piece. Its my opinion and it's no less valid than yours.
Conversely, no one was saying Jensen was a top tier driver until he got a bloody fast car 
I'd put jockeys in the same boat, unless you have fast horses you aren't dominating the sport.
QB is such a pivotal role in American Football, it doesn't have many equivalents in other team sports. You are captain, tactician, playmaker, ruthless finisher, etc all in one. Closest I can think in football would be if Christiano Ronaldo was still winning champions leagues in 2028, which would be insane.
I'd put jockeys in the same boat, unless you have fast horses you aren't dominating the sport.
QB is such a pivotal role in American Football, it doesn't have many equivalents in other team sports. You are captain, tactician, playmaker, ruthless finisher, etc all in one. Closest I can think in football would be if Christiano Ronaldo was still winning champions leagues in 2028, which would be insane.
Gameface said:
They really do.
Do Bolts spikes give him an advantage over people?
No.
Did Ali's gloves give him an advantage over his opponents?
No.
Does Hamiltons Mercedes give him an advantage over the Haas drivers etc?
Yes.
I'm not getting into a debate about it. Wrong thread.
I've said my piece. Its my opinion and it's no less valid than yours.
It's also wrong. Do Bolts spikes give him an advantage over people?
No.
Did Ali's gloves give him an advantage over his opponents?
No.
Does Hamiltons Mercedes give him an advantage over the Haas drivers etc?
Yes.
I'm not getting into a debate about it. Wrong thread.
I've said my piece. Its my opinion and it's no less valid than yours.
Top athletes etc. have a huge amount of investment in them behind the scenes, including the equipment they use.
Wadeski said:
Conversely, no one was saying Jensen was a top tier driver until he got a bloody fast car
Plenty were saying he was top tier, not a goat but certainly highly talented. He gave Lewis a good run for his money as team mate, other team mates to Lewis were mentally destroyed trying to keep up. Alonso lost the plot when this rookie was faster, Rosberg tried for years and had to put his life on hold for a year to stand a chance, pulled some very dodgy moves to get an advantage and then promptly gave up as he was wasted by the effort required. Bottas is looking worse each year as Lewis strokes it home. Cant wait for George to be his team mate, that will be fascinating.thegreenhell said:
Yes, but he would need to move to Williams and still become champion to match what Brady has just achieved.
He did that already, before Hamilton joined Mercedes they won nothing. Red Bull were the dominant team when he did that and plenty told him he was nuts to leave McLaren to go there.DeejRC said:
Well he's a fair contender.
Bolt, Lewis, Moe, Hamilton,Schumacher, Pele, Ronaldo, Messi, Zidane, Maradona, Phelps, Spitz, Peaty, the pocket rocket American female gymnast, Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Don Bradman, Smashin Sachin, Lara, Valentino, Ainslie, Dalton Grant, Im so not touching cycling, Ali, Mayweather...am I missing anyone from the "other" roll call of sports?
Yanks will throw up Jordan, Kobe, LeBron James, Don Curry.
You have to say that he is completely in that conversation. Imagine Pele being that good in the no 10 slot for 20 yrs. Ronaldo and Messi come close, but they are years off and they don't take the beating like he does. Hamilton, Bolt, Phelps and Jordon probably come closest.
That is some bloody good company. Though if Ainslie wins the Americas and then has a go at the Vendee Id say him.
Probably the greatest golfer of all time...Tiger Woods. His stats are other worldly. Whilst he’s shy of Nicklaus’ majors by 3, his sheer dominance in other stats, to me, makes him one of the best ever sports person ever.Bolt, Lewis, Moe, Hamilton,Schumacher, Pele, Ronaldo, Messi, Zidane, Maradona, Phelps, Spitz, Peaty, the pocket rocket American female gymnast, Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Don Bradman, Smashin Sachin, Lara, Valentino, Ainslie, Dalton Grant, Im so not touching cycling, Ali, Mayweather...am I missing anyone from the "other" roll call of sports?
Yanks will throw up Jordan, Kobe, LeBron James, Don Curry.
You have to say that he is completely in that conversation. Imagine Pele being that good in the no 10 slot for 20 yrs. Ronaldo and Messi come close, but they are years off and they don't take the beating like he does. Hamilton, Bolt, Phelps and Jordon probably come closest.
That is some bloody good company. Though if Ainslie wins the Americas and then has a go at the Vendee Id say him.
jsf said:
It's also wrong.
Top athletes etc. have a huge amount of investment in them behind the scenes, including the equipment they use.
Sigh. Top athletes etc. have a huge amount of investment in them behind the scenes, including the equipment they use.
No it's not.
It's a perfectly valid opinion.
Perhaps try not be so dismissive of them simply because they don't conform to your beliefs.
I'll leave the thread now though. I wont derail it over something I care so little about.
You are welcome to the last word though. You seem the sort of person who craves it.
g4ry13 said:
Tampa Bay defence won that game. Mahomes had no chance as he wasn't protected and nobody caught his passes.
Not entirely blameless though, he had blokes wide open on a couple of occasions but too focused on the pressure (which is understandable). I think experience showed in this one. Brady's protection was clearly better but he also got rid of the ball on a few occasions just in the nick of time. He just makes it look easy. No discredit to PH though, some of those drops were awful.
There is no need to be huffy with each other chaps...it’s a conversation, a debate. There is effectively no right answer, just contenders for being mentioned in the debate. I personally don’t think golf can remotely count, there isn’t a physical abuse element to the game which can have such an impact. Golf does though have longevity on its side, which in theory makes a top flight career possible for a longer period. Unfortunately against Brady that argument goes down in flames!
I forgot tennis from my list. Fed and Nadal. Novak needs another 10yrs of writing the record books.
I forgot tennis from my list. Fed and Nadal. Novak needs another 10yrs of writing the record books.
Wadeski said:
QB is such a pivotal role in American Football, it doesn't have many equivalents in other team sports. You are captain, tactician, playmaker, ruthless finisher, etc all in one.
Mostly limited tactician, plays are called in from the sideline before they start based on current field position, yardage requirement, opposition positioning, and personnel by the Offensive Coordinator and their team in the skybox. Quarterbacks have audible calls to allow variation if and when they read a problem with the called play vs set up of defense but there's a limited number as changes are hard to make at line of scrimmage.
DeejRC said:
I don't often comment on NFL, as I always forget the thread is here to be honest.
The first season of NFL and Superbowl I followed was basically the Fridge whupping New England in 1986 at Super Bowl XX...some 35 yrs ago! For some random reason known only to 10yr olds, I became a Pats fan that night - when most logical ppl would have been a Bears fan. The days of Bill Brady Gronk seemed a long way off back then!
That was my first Superbowl too, I remember fighting to stay awake on a school night. Didn't pick a team until 21 years later.The first season of NFL and Superbowl I followed was basically the Fridge whupping New England in 1986 at Super Bowl XX...some 35 yrs ago! For some random reason known only to 10yr olds, I became a Pats fan that night - when most logical ppl would have been a Bears fan. The days of Bill Brady Gronk seemed a long way off back then!
Highlight of Superbowl LV for me, as the Packers lost the Championship game, was Neil Reynolds calling the facemask a face-cage and Dallas Clark ripping him for it. This has mileage.
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