V8 engine rebuilds - common?

[Dr.Hess]

That's rather bad news. One thing to consider for all the V8's not yet blown would be to change to a non-glycol based coolant. I forget what that other stuff is called, but it is out there. Also, do all glycol's destroy the sealant or just certain ones? That is, ethylene-glycol may have different chemical properties to poly-ethylene-glycol, etc. Perhaps there is a "normal" coolant that is compatible.

Just throwing out ideas here.

Dr.Hess

[scoule]

Cross-eyed-twit said:

I don't understand how all the other V8 engines on the market are able to survive without sealant problems. Or am I missing some design and manufacturing technique that Lotus use that other companies don't. Are Lotus unique in that they use sealant to seal the liners???

Not all V8's have wet liners, well, older ones didn't anyhow.

Wet liner sealing can't be rocket science though, the Hillman Imp launched in 1963 had an all alloy engine with wet liners - never heard of leaky liners on that, just blown head gaskets due to overheating and owner abuse!

[cb1118]

oh...I have misread the informations..
because in the end of the "V8 Liner Problems" page,
there was a report from John Roberts (2002 V8) that
cars with the Hylomar 3400 should be trouble free...
this gets me confused,as the beginning of the page mentions it is a problem from the 98 V8 model

anyway, something is still troubling me.
let's say I finally buy the 1996 V8,
when I change the liner sealer during a regular engine maintainence, I must only use Hylomar 3400 because the Loctite 572 is no longer in production, neither available in the market??
This will mean the V8 liner problem becomes an issue to a post 98 V8 Esprit, right?

can anyone confirm that post 98 V8 Esprit is with the Loctite 572 sealer?
and how long does a sealer last before an replacement??

I read the information of glycol base coolant,
apparently it has a better cooling characteristic than previous market products.
I think all coolant out there is glycol base now...(this makes me worry, too)

[cb1118]

I read this information from a coolant product web site

www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/ant.aspx


it seems the original recommended "ethylene glycol" base coolant is highly toxic!??

note: recommended coolants are

Castrol Antifreeze (ethylene glycol)
Shellsafe Plus (I cannot find this available anymore, at least not in my country)

>> Edited by cb1118 on Friday 3rd June 18:40

[Paula&Marcus]

scoule said:

Err, should we be switching to non-glycol based coolants this afternoon? Are there any?! What sealant did they use in the old 4 cylinder models? Why can't that be used? My Excel is 15 years old and has done 130k miles, my Esprit S350 with 12k miles scares me a whole lot more! >> Edited by scoule on Friday 3rd June 17:09 >> Edited by scoule on Friday 3rd June 17:10

Hi,
IIRC the 4-Cylinders engines use the Loctite-stuff. IMHO its a very good choice for this application. The only problem with the Loctite is that this sealant gets bone-hard (its not flexible at all). With the 4-Cyl. engine that uses an aluminium block and aluminium liners (both have the same temp.-expansion rate) this is not a problem.
The V8-engine is differnet it uses an aluminum block and steel liners (= different temp.-expansion rate). IMHO thats why the Loctite stuff produced problems in this application, because its not flexible enough and begins to crack. The new Lotus-recommended Hylomar is flexile, but it seems that it does not hold up long enough in Glycol enironment ...
We now searched for a flexible sealant that is Glycol-resistant. We found one with the help of Loctite-Germany. I hope this will be a good solution. When its tested and proofed I will tell you ;o)

Cheers
Marcus (www.PUKesprit.de)

[toyroom]

I seem to remember owning a Ford Escort many years ago which had methanol based coolant (which was red in colour as I recall) Perhaps the factory could help with some advice on this subject. Perhaps they could clear up the mysterious statement in the workshop manual which states clearly that the two recommended coolants should not be mixed. Maybe the Shell one was methanol based. Time to call the guys at the factory and see if they know any more. Incidentally, my '97 V8 was rebuilt by the factory in 2001 because of leaky liners.

[kmaier]

Yes, an interesting thread on this subject. Mine is a 2000MY and according to info on Kato's site the engine was number 4 to be built with hylomar sealant. I managed to find the attached link. Scan down to Hylomar 3400 and read the recommended uses.... among them, cylinder liners. It would seem logical that this sealant would be tolerant of coolant based on recommended use.

http://fast-idleautomotive.com/index_files/Page2015.htm

I sent Hylomar an email asking for specific clarification on whether this stuff holds up in the presense of engine coolants. I'll post if they respond.

Regards, KM
2000 V8

[DanR 1201]

I don't know what the architecture of the V8 is like but wonder if rubber "O" rings can be used. Alfa used this method 40 years ago successfully.

[toyroom]

To Paula&Marcus-
Don't want to sound stupid but... is it possible that the car with the "absent" sealant had never had it, like it had been omitted at the time of the rebuild or would this be something so incompatible that it couldn't possibly happen ? It does seem strange that this particular outcome is unique. (As far as we know that is)

[arium]

toyroom said:

To Paula&Marcus- Don't want to sound stupid but... is it possible that the car with the "absent" sealant had never had it, like it had been omitted at the time of the rebuild or would this be something so incompatible that it couldn't possibly happen ?

I'd say very unlikely...

Unless of course Lotus ran out of Hylomar that day and substituted bathtub caulk. Hmmm, what colour was the caulking (err, sealant) that was removed? Hopefully not Almond or Antique White.



Steve

[Paula&Marcus]

toyroom said:

To Paula&Marcus- Don't want to sound stupid but... is it possible that the car with the "absent" sealant had never had it, like it had been omitted at the time of the rebuild or would this be something so incompatible that it couldn't possibly happen ? It does seem strange that this particular outcome is unique. (As far as we know that is)

Hi Toyroom,
Hmmmmmmmmmm .... maybe we were just so confused that day when we rebuilt this engine the first time (= it was not a OEM engine, we already rebuilt this engine once !) that we simply forgot to apply the Hylomar stuff ?????? ......... No thats very unlikely.

Cheers
Marcus

[toyroom]

So not impossible then ?(!) You know what Sherlock Holmes used to say: ..."Watson, when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains must be the truth !"
Seriously, has anybody asked the factory yet ? They must have endurance data on engines built since 2000. Have they seen this happen ? And if so, to what degree ? Would this constitute "premature failure" for those who continue to fund a warranty ? Or would they do their usual get-out of saying that the sealant failed because it had "come to the end of its natural life" !
This latter point raises the question of getting 12 months' warranty cover by presenting the invoice for the last service and then putting in a claim and getting an engine rebuild for the price of the warranty (circa £1500 last time I looked). Now I wouldn't do that of course... but some people...

[ErnestM]

kmaier said:

Yes, an interesting thread on this subject. Mine is a 2000MY and according to info on Kato's site the engine was number 4 to be built with hylomar sealant. I managed to find the attached link. Scan down to Hylomar 3400 and read the recommended uses.... among them, cylinder liners. It would seem logical that this sealant would be tolerant of coolant based on recommended use. <a href="http://fast-idleautomotive.com/index_files/Page2015.htm">http://fast-idleautomotive.com/index_files/Page2015.htm</a> I sent Hylomar an email asking for specific clarification on whether this stuff holds up in the presense of engine coolants. I'll post if they respond. Regards, KM 2000 V8

Hylomar have responded direct to Pistonheads. Please read the thread started by PetrolTed on this issue (Hylomar response - it's a sticky topic)

ErnestM

>> Edited by ErnestM on Wednesday 8th June 17:41

[kmaier]

ErnestM said:

kmaier said: Yes, an interesting thread on this subject. Mine is a 2000MY and according to info on Kato's site the engine was number 4 to be built with hylomar sealant. I managed to find the attached link. Scan down to Hylomar 3400 and read the recommended uses.... among them, cylinder liners. It would seem logical that this sealant would be tolerant of coolant based on recommended use. <a href="http://fast-idleautomotive.com/index_files/Page2015.htm"><a href="http://fast-idleautomotive.com/index_files/Page2015.htm">http://fast-idleautomotive.com/index_files/Page2015.htm</a></a> I sent Hylomar an email asking for specific clarification on whether this stuff holds up in the presense of engine coolants. I'll post if they respond. Regards, KM 2000 V8 Hylomar have responded direct to Pistonheads. Please read the thread started by PetrolTed on this issue (Hylomar response - it's a sticky topic) ErnestM >> Edited by ErnestM on Wednesday 8th June 17:41

Thanks Ernest,

I have also been swapping email recently with Warrick at Hylomar. And as PetrolTed posted, this looks to be the next level of detail which Warrick will be sending me per his earlier email. In my case, I have engine number 603 (per LEW info) which should be the 4th engine made with Hylomar... and mine leaks coolant into the crankcase.

I'll be taking pics and posting more details once I start working on the car which won't be until some time in July based on schedules for work and travel mostly. I plan on pressure testing while the engine is on a stand so I can find the source of coolant leaking into the crankcase. I'm assuming (ie, hoping, praying, etc.) that it is only liner leakage... anything else could a huge expense. Thanks again.

Regards, KM
2000 V8

[Paula&Marcus]

Hi All,
Many thanks for all the comments and also many thanks to the Hylomar guys.

First I want to apologize for all the confusion I have initiated here ...

With the help of some people here we could shed some light on this Hylomar-problem.
The reason why the Hylomar sealant disappeared was simply the fact that it was NOT the "Hylomar 3400" that was used. Actually it was a Hylomar product (recommended and purchased from our Lotus-dealer with item #A918E6069) but unfortunately not the correct one for this application.

The Lotus dealer simply sold us the wrong Hylomar product .... (
I personally did not have any doubts, because it came with a Lotus #A918... item number that states that it is a V8 number.

If you ever happen to apply a sealant to the V8 liners please only use "Hylomar 3400" and not this one:




Does anybody know what application this #A918E6069 is meant to be used for ???


Sorry for the inconviniences
Marcus

[scoule]

Phew! Thanks for the update Marcus ... I was beginning to question my logic of paying the preium to buy a late car with engine number higher than 30600.

[scoule]

From the V8 parts manual ...

Gasket compound - Advanced formula Apply to inlet manifold gaskets A918E6069F As required

[kmaier]

scoule said:

From the V8 parts manual ... Gasket compound - Advanced formula Apply to inlet manifold gaskets A918E6069F As required

Yes, that's the black goopy stuff. It was all over the intake gaskets and plenty dripping into the intake runners (sloppy assembly work). I cleaned all of that gunk off and used fresh intake gaskets dry as there is a thin silicone bead on both sides of the gasket which provides excellent sealing without the gasket compound.

Regards, KM
2000 V8

[lotusespritworld]

Following the posts about this subject, we at LEW have been talking to Lotus, who have looked into this. Read the bottom of our V8 Liner page for an update direct from Lotus.

www.lotusespritworld.com/ETechnical/V8_Liner_Problems.html

kato
Lotus Esprit World

[ChristV898]

Hi ,
I ´m facing a porosity problem on my Esprit V8 prod 1998 i just purchased. Found 200ppm of coolant in engine oil (oil is given for 3 years old and 3300km).
No visible coolant traces in oil but 200ppm were détected alter analyse. This looks high. I made this analyse because the 2 turbochargers failed (oil leak due to bearing failure on each turbo)
According to lotus cars, it may comes from an engine block porosity problem that i could fix with bars leak additive.
Does any One has experienced this kind of problem on esprit v8?
Merci beaucoup
Christ