stand in miniature esprit almost finished

[teigan]

thanks mike. do you not agree though that my car from 1984 suffers aerodynamically from the kick tail at the back? i think a lotus employee confirmed years ago that the lip on top of the louvres was a last moment hack to stop air ever reaching the kicktail. i removed my louvres last year to take a mould, and i confirmed that at highway speeds, the front end gets lifted enough to make steering squirrely. colin would have agreed that an aft wing needs to be balanced with a small wing or canard up front. although the louvre lip solves the steering problem, it effectively cuts short the trailing edge of the car, which needs to be longer if anything.

[danster72]

teigan said:

thanks mike. do you not agree though that my car from 1984 suffers aerodynamically from the kick tail at the back? i think a lotus employee confirmed years ago that the lip on top of the louvres was a last moment hack to stop air ever reaching the kicktail.

Teigan, Teigan, Teigan - do you never shut up?! Everyone got so exasperated by the rubbish you arrogantly posted, arguing and asserting that Lotus did a shoddy, careless design and engineering job that Kimbers jr. asked Kimbers snr. to put the record straight in public. Read Mr. Kimberley's reply again, please, and think before you type.

teigan said:

i removed my louvres last year to take a mould, and i confirmed that at highway speeds, the front end gets lifted enough to make steering squirrely.

Ever stopped to think that all of the aerodynamic aids might make a complementary and balanced system? Of course removing one of them will upset the balance of the whole system! Why not take the gearbox out and let us know how that affects acceleration - I'm sure it's another bit of the car you just don't need and is bound to have a big negative impact on your power:weight ratio...

teigan said:

colin would have agreed that an aft wing needs to be balanced with a small wing or canard up front. although the louvre lip solves the steering problem, it effectively cuts short the trailing edge of the car, which needs to be longer if anything.

Oh FFS get back in your corner. Are you seriously trying to start a discussion with Mike Kimberley over whether Colin Chapman - and that's "Mr. Chapman" to you, with a capital 'C', you snivelling little ingrate - would agree or disagree with him over your musings on aerodynamics?

Can I suggest you post a full apology to Mr Kimberley and to Lotus for claiming:

teigan said:

wrong about what? i already stated that any wind tunnel tests done by lotus were for photo opportunities only. showing me a crude model is hardly the same as providing recreatable test data.

and then just shut up and accept that you were wrong.

[GKP]

danster72 said:

That's "Mr. Chapman" to you, with a capital 'C', you snivelling little ingrate

[Tentenths]

danster72 said:

Can I suggest you post a full apology to Mr Kimberley and to Lotus for claiming:

teigan said:

wrong about what? i already stated that any wind tunnel tests done by lotus were for photo opportunities only. showing me a crude model is hardly the same as providing recreatable test data.

and then just shut up and accept that you were wrong.

Hmmm, nice idea danster, but that'll take balls and humility in equal measures. Over to you teigan...

[deecee]

Kimbers34 said:

The Lotus Esprit WAS tested in the wind tunnel on a 1/4 scale model. I can assure you this is correct as it came directly from the Engineering Director of the Elite, Eclat and Esprit projects i.e me.

Did the Doors and Window Frames Twist Out at speed and did the Side Glass want to Explode?...just like a Real Esprit?

Which Correspondence School did you get your Degree in Engineering from?

[troy halliday]

Teigan,

I have sneeked over here a few times and seen you on a rant. I had tryed many times to diffuse you drivelings over at LEF, and it did balls all then. Look at the evidence in front of you man. You said it was not tested in a wind tunnel and you now have been told by the then Engineering Director of the Lotus Esprit project that it was. You have also seen the scale model that was used. Also bare in mind Lotus's heritage and it's then CEO and exactly what he was so passionate about. Now give it up man. IF you do own an Esprit for god sakes sell it. I can personally put you in touch with people in the US who are looking for one at this time. Face it man you just enjoy trying to get a rise out of people and if you listen to them, I mean actualy listen they KNOW that you are a complete TIT!

Troy

[GKP]

deecee said:

Did the Doors and Window Frames Twist Out at speed and did the Side Glass want to Explode?...just like a Real Esprit?

Which Correspondence School did you get your Degree in Engineering from?

Read the post again (perhaps with a dictionary to hand?). It was written by Mike Kimberley. Do you know who he is? Perhaps a quick Google might enlighten you?
If you think you'd get that sort of access to any other manufacturer you're truly, truly mistaken. A bit of professional respect wouldn't go amiss especially if you ever expect the factory to take an interest in looking after our cars.

I don't mind a bit of banter on these forums every now and again, but I cannot describe the contempt and pity I have for you now.

[big-si]

cant be bothered with this now its pointless, this chap wont take anyone elses advice, professional expertise or opinions to hand and would rather prefer to further alienate himself from the lotus community.

so i am going to leave it with this one for him.

D/M-C/FI-2" ~ Z/^2" LIN~0.1/SW/-RF{2/2-0} you come back to me on that one tiegan and im going to take you seriously.

Edited by big-si on Monday 19th February 13:28

[968ant]

Teigan,
Please understand that I mean this in the nicest way possible, feel a bit like I'm patronising you but please bare with me.

I think your point could be quite interesting, it's just the way you make it thats causing so much upset, you need to understand that people love these cars and even though we all know of the downsides of the esprit we dont want reminding of them, it's a bit like when you buy something and someone says "what have you bought that for?" at that moment you need reasurance that you made the right decision.

I do, as I think most people on here do, understand the point your trying to make and I actually find it quite interesting ( even if I don't understand most of the technical stuff) but esprit ownership for me is all about opening the garage door and going WOW!! and being involved in the whole lotus experience and meeting other like minded people, making new friends etc.

I hope this doesn't seem too patronising because I really don't mean it too, it's just you really don't seem to understand why people are getting upset with you?

Ant.

[lotusespritforum]

deecee said:

Kimbers34 said:

The Lotus Esprit WAS tested in the wind tunnel on a 1/4 scale model. I can assure you this is correct as it came directly from the Engineering Director of the Elite, Eclat and Esprit projects i.e me.

Did the Doors and Window Frames Twist Out at speed and did the Side Glass want to Explode?...just like a Real Esprit?

Which Correspondence School did you get your Degree in Engineering from?

Mike Kimberley, current CEO of Lotus Cars, has, amongst others CEng, FIMech E, FRSA, FIED. Degree's in Mechanical Engineering (Coventry), Engineering Design (Salford) and Advanced Management at Harvard (Yes Harvard).

You're very rude mate, I'm glad I don't know anyone like you in real life or I'd not be friends with you for long.

Edited by lotusespritforum on Monday 19th February 13:29

[TonyHetherington]

DeeCee; please remain courteous and polite to ALL members of this forum.

No matter who they are or their relationship to the brand, everyone deserves to be treated appropriately. If they have taken the time to reply and inform, you can take the time to be civil. You are quite within your rights to disagree, but do so with respect.

If you continue in this manor, I will ban you. No warnings.

Tony (moderator).

[danster72]

danster72 said:

Can I suggest you post a full apology to Mr Kimberley and to Lotus for claiming:

teigan said:

wrong about what? i already stated that any wind tunnel tests done by lotus were for photo opportunities only. showing me a crude model is hardly the same as providing recreatable test data.

and then just shut up and accept that you were wrong.

Is it my imagination, or have you gone awfully quiet in the past 24 hours, Teigan?

Looking forward to reading a nice polite apology, and then we can close this sorry little chapter...

[green_meanie]

Dan
He can't go yet, I still want to see some pictures of the wind tunnel that started out as a

1) local airframe technology center
then changed to
2) teaching facility in california
then became the
3) facility used by Douglas fo their intercontinental ballistic missles

but won't take anything bigger than a 1/16 scale Esprit.........................

[bojangles]

lotusespritforum said:

Mike Kimberley, current CEO of Lotus Cars, has, amongst others CEng, FIMech E, FRSA, FIED. Degree's in Mechanical Engineering (Coventry), Engineering Design (Salford) and Advanced Management at Harvard (Yes Harvard).

I think that this executive said "shut up" early on in this thread. (I had to laugh out loud) Not sure about what liberties the highly paid get for social graces... but I can see how one might be ticked off if told to shut up by a person like that. Not withstanding that, I cant tell you how often the higher ups need to give and take a little lip. I for one appreciate the interaction here.

So many people have been childish is this and hard to believe we are mostly all grown men. I am normally the prick here. I feel left out. I think we should speak freely here.

If Mr. Kimberley is still reading, I am an automotive mechanical engineer looking for work. I dare you to have me for an interview. - I like your style.

Edited by bojangles on Tuesday 20th February 04:25

Edited by bojangles on Tuesday 20th February 04:26

[f1karting]

Kimbers34 said:

The Lotus Esprit WAS tested in the wind tunnel on a 1/4 scale model. I can assure you this is correct as it came directly from the Engineering Director of the Elite, Eclat and Esprit projects i.e me. In fact huge amounts of time and development were spent tuning the airflow management at MIRA. In fact the Elite has a Cd of 0.3 without wing mirrors and a static road tunnel. The Esprit wasn't at that level but for it's day (design in 72) it was good.

For your information Lotus was driven by F1 racing technology practices at the time, (e.g low mass, low COG, careful management of COP, etc) aerodynamics and high speed stability was a key part of all our designs with Colin and Myself, even during the Elan and Europa period.

Mike Kimberley.

Mike.. this aero study that Lotus did intrigues me. I am not sure if you can help here, but I am very curious (as others may be) to learn about what aero configurations were tested, what was analysed, and the results of the testing...surely someone knows.

I understand that an Esprit (one of unknown config) showed a net positive downforce front and rear, however, so far, I have not been able to find any evidence to support the claim or numbers.

From what you mentioned, it seems that Cd was indeed tested, but we are curious about further tests that were conducted. If the testing was exhaustive, there must be a huge body of knowledge available. It would be very enlightening for this info to be shared (and would put an end to this non-productive thread)

One of the fellows on LEF has developed a very accurate 3d model of the S3 design.. I believe that a joint project with the 3d model and someone with access to FluentCFD or similar SW would go a long way to creating a productive discussion on this matter.

Appreciate your input..Jan

[Kimbers34]

Jan

Unfortunately my old man is not a regular contributor on here but does like to be involved. In defence of Teigan (for a change) my father just wanted him to know that the Esprit was aerodynamically tested and that the results were as expected for a supercar of the time.

What we mustn't all forget here is that this car was designed in 1972 and that at the time aerodynamics were no where near as advanced as they are today. So putting todays drag co efficients and ground effects against a classic 30 year old car (in the case of the original Esprit) is like asking why a model T ford doesn't have an I-pod connector!

[Kimbers34]

Bojangles, for your information, neither myself or my father posted those details online. They are correct, but it's not something that either of us would have replied to.

[teigan]

danster72 said:

danster72 said:

Can I suggest you post a full apology to Mr Kimberley and to Lotus for claiming:

teigan said:

wrong about what? i already stated that any wind tunnel tests done by lotus were for photo opportunities only. showing me a crude model is hardly the same as providing recreatable test data.

and then just shut up and accept that you were wrong.

Is it my imagination, or have you gone awfully quiet in the past 24 hours, Teigan?

Looking forward to reading a nice polite apology, and then we can close this sorry little chapter...

unlike you, i come on this forum only as an aid to working on my vehicle. i have a life and couldn't care less what you and others happen to be saying about me. yes i disappear for days at a time. i wasn't here over valentine's day and i wasn't here past weekend which was a holiday. get a life. as for apologising to mike kimberly. he gave me a media blurb, and there was no useful or new information in his answer. as would be expected, i queried him a little further and more specifically since he was already here. i hope he was impressed by the sycophantic posturings of you and your internet friends. if you all had some actual skills, you wouldn't need to cowtow to people in an affort to get ahead.

GKP - "I used a toilet once after a lotus employee pooed in it. It was awesome"

[jk1]

bojangles said:

[quote=lotusespritforum]

I think that this executive said "shut up" early on in this thread. (I had to laugh out loud) Not sure about what liberties the highly paid get for social graces... but I can see how one might be ticked off if told to shut up by a person like that. Not withstanding that, I cant tell you how often the higher ups need to give and take a little lip. I for one appreciate the interaction here.

Edited by bojangles on Tuesday 20th February 04:25

Edited by bojangles on Tuesday 20th February 04:26

As usual you're a day late and dollar short. The quote was "Maybe, just maybe Teigan will shut up now." and was not made by Mike Kimberley.

Automotive engineer looking for work, lacks basic reading comprehension....makes sense to me.

[Kimbers34]

Guys please don't get me and my father mixed up. He passed on some information at the weekend via me which I typed under my name, but it was essentially him. Unless it says Mike Kimberley either as an intro or Signed by, it's me.