Porsche 981 Boxtser / Cayman 20" tyre choices - P Zero N1s

Porsche 981 Boxtser / Cayman 20" tyre choices - P Zero N1s

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SimonOcean

Original Poster:

317 posts

152 months

Friday 3rd February 2017
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Folks,

I recently purchased some new Pirelli P Zero N1 tyres. I thought that I would share my experiences of them with you all. First some background. Many of you will already know this, so skip to my impression of the new tyres if you already do.

I have a 981 Cayman S with 20" Carrera wheels. The car requires 235/35ZR20 88Y up front and 265/35ZR20 95Y at the back. If you want to avoid problems selling your car back into the Porsche network you need to fit Porsche certified tyres which come marked with an N0 or N1 label. N0 just means that this was the first generation of that particular brand and model tyre to be certified by Porsche, with second generation tyre updates being labeled N1 and so on.

Currently I am aware of just three N-rated choices for these 20 inch wheels:
Pirelli P Zero N0
Goodyear Eagle Assy Eagle N0
Pirelli P Zero N1

P Zero N0 were fitted to my car. They were okay, but there was quite a lot of tyre rumble using them. These also suffered from premature tyre cracking which came up under an MOT advisory which prompted me to change them despite having some life left in them.

My research indicated the the newer Eagle's are an improvement to the P Zero N0. However Pirelli updated their P Zeros about 6 months ago. The new P Zero has a different compound that supposedly corrects the early cracking problem. Also it is a completely different tread design to the previous generation P Zero.

So I chose the P Zero N1s. I've only done about 400 miles so far: first impressions are positive. There is a noticeable reduction in tyre noise... I say noticable, but qualitatively about 3%. This might not sound like much, but I am talking marginal, but noticeable improvements. Also the ride quality seems slightly more comfortable. Wet road steering feel and traction is excellent. Dry road maybe there is a slight compromise in turn in... maybe slightly more understeer compared the previous generation P Zero. But it is hard to tell in only 400 miles and the ambient temperatures have been below the 7 degrees lower limit that these tyres were designed for.

On balance for a road biased performance tyre I am pleased that I switched from the P Zero N0 to the P Zero N1. I hope this is useful to you if you are in the market for new tyres.

beanoir

1,327 posts

194 months

Friday 3rd February 2017
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No mention of Michelin which is interesting, widely considered the best choice. I'm sure the MPSS comes in the right size with N marking, my friends GTS had them from the factory...


bcr5784

7,102 posts

144 months

Friday 3rd February 2017
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I hope that you approached Pirelli about your cracking problems - a couple of us have and Pirelli have been very good about it and supplied replacements at no cost.

As you have found the N1s are a definite step forward. I'd be inclined to think that the ultimate grip may be lower, but they definitely have more feel and are more progressive, which is far more important to me. I would have liked to hang on for Michelins but they weren't (still aren't?) available in N rating and 19" - didn't think they were for any size yet (but coming) - but may be wrong.

SimonOcean

Original Poster:

317 posts

152 months

Friday 3rd February 2017
quotequote all
Regarding Michelin,

Although they make current generation Pilot Sport in the correct size, I think - from memory, so maybe not entirely accurate - the load rating of the rear tyres is different. Maybe not a huge issue, but not as spec. Also not N-rated? But if your friend has a GTS with those as factory fit, maybe you can correct me on that?

I did email the Michelin rep regrading the new PS4. They are due out in the correct size this quarter, but initially they would be generic updated P Zeros without the N rating. As I am thinking about selling my Cayman fairly soon I wanted fresh tyres with N spec that could be sold into the Porsche network without creating issues.

My feeling regarding the comment about less ultimate grip, but more progressive (and quieter and more comfortable) seems about right. For a road tyre I think the new trade off is worthwhile.

mr pg

1,947 posts

204 months

Friday 3rd February 2017
quotequote all
beanoir said:
No mention of Michelin which is interesting, widely considered the best choice. I'm sure the MPSS comes in the right size with N marking, my friends GTS had them from the factory...
Nope, not avaiable for the Cayman, unfortunately AFAIK.

ellroy

7,005 posts

224 months

Friday 3rd February 2017
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I think the new M pilot Sport 4 is meant to be coming as an N rated tyre soon, and that's reputedly as good as current SS.

SimonOcean

Original Poster:

317 posts

152 months

Friday 3rd February 2017
quotequote all
beanoir said:
No mention of Michelin which is interesting, widely considered the best choice. I'm sure the MPSS comes in the right size with N marking, my friends GTS had them from the factory...
I though that the GTS had the Goodyear Eagles from the factory. I think if your friend has MPSS this was something he fitted himself, or a previous owner could have fitted.

FrankCayman

2,121 posts

212 months

Friday 3rd February 2017
quotequote all
beanoir said:
No mention of Michelin which is interesting, widely considered the best choice. I'm sure the MPSS comes in the right size with N marking, my friends GTS had them from the factory...
I know nothing about Michelins for 20" 981's.....be grateful if you could confirm please, as I shall need a new set soon.

Cheers

DJMC

3,431 posts

102 months

Friday 3rd February 2017
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Chat with Michelin yesterday:

Me:
I have a question about the Pilot Sport 4S

Agent - Vassilena
Welcome, I'm your Michelin Assistant. Thanks for contacting us

Me:
My car is a 2014 Porsche Cayman 981 2.7.
Tyres are 235 35 20 & 265 35 20
When are "N" marked versions of these due to be available?

Agent - Vassilena
Thank you for the information, one moment please and I will check...
I just checked and for both dimensions the new MICHELIN Pilot Sport 4 S with Porsche marking will be launched in March.
That means that it should be available with our dealers a couple of months after.

Me:
Do you have the load index for each yet? E.g. 99Y etc?

Agent - Vassilena
Yes we do.
235/35 20 92 (Y)
265/35 20 99 (Y)

End.

Note that the load index is different from the OE spec 88Y & 95Y for 981 and 718, plus 4 in each case.

I find this odd, but I guess if the tyres have been approved by Porsche there must be a reason?

SimonOcean

Original Poster:

317 posts

152 months

Friday 3rd February 2017
quotequote all
DJMC said:
Me:
Do you have the load index for each yet? E.g. 99Y etc?

Agent - Vassilena
Yes we do.
235/35 20 92 (Y)
265/35 20 99 (Y)

End.

Note that the load index is different from the OE spec 88Y & 95Y for 981 and 718, plus 4 in each case.

I find this odd, but I guess if the tyres have been approved by Porsche there must be a reason?
I think that you will find that the higher load rating tyres would be for Porsche approved for SUV type Porsches. I would be less hung up about fitting non-N rated tyres to my car and more hung up about fitting tyres with the incorrect load rating, The load rating is something you should get right. Don't just assume that if the load rating is higher than that specified then it will be more than good enough. I don't think it works out like that. Instead it is likely that the sidewall will be too stiff and the tyre most likely significantly heavier than the lower load rating tyres specified for your car.

I understand that these Pilot Sport 4 are desirable tyres, but the point of my original post was that the Pirelli P Zero seem significantly improved for road use. If you want tyres primarily for track use then that is beyond my experience and I have no idea.

DJMC

3,431 posts

102 months

Friday 3rd February 2017
quotequote all
AFAIK these 20" sizes are purely 981/982 fitting? I'm not sure an SUV would be wearing 35 aspect low profiles?

I think maybe Michelin just don't know the right answer with regard to load index for the new N marked MPS4S as they also seem not to for the current generic ones...

They list the 265 35 20 as 99Y here: http://www.michelin.co.uk/GB/en/tyres/products/pil...

But as 95Y here: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Pilo...

Jamie McWhir, their UK technical manager, did say a few weeks ago to me that the new N marked tyres, at 92Y and 99Y, would be more than good enough, or similar comment.

I will follow this up with Michelin as I too am not happy the load index differs from OE and feel the assumption is currently that they will be the same as the generic tyres in this size whereas the N marked ones will actually be 88Y & 95Y.

Edited by DJMC on Friday 3rd February 23:17

beanoir

1,327 posts

194 months

Saturday 4th February 2017
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SimonOcean said:
DJMC said:
Me:
Do you have the load index for each yet? E.g. 99Y etc?

Agent - Vassilena
Yes we do.
235/35 20 92 (Y)
265/35 20 99 (Y)

End.

Note that the load index is different from the OE spec 88Y & 95Y for 981 and 718, plus 4 in each case.

I find this odd, but I guess if the tyres have been approved by Porsche there must be a reason?
I think that you will find that the higher load rating tyres would be for Porsche approved for SUV type Porsches. I would be less hung up about fitting non-N rated tyres to my car and more hung up about fitting tyres with the incorrect load rating, The load rating is something you should get right. Don't just assume that if the load rating is higher than that specified then it will be more than good enough. I don't think it works out like that. Instead it is likely that the sidewall will be too stiff and the tyre most likely significantly heavier than the lower load rating tyres specified for your car.

I understand that these Pilot Sport 4 are desirable tyres, but the point of my original post was that the Pirelli P Zero seem significantly improved for road use. If you want tyres primarily for track use then that is beyond my experience and I have no idea.
The load rating is only a problem if you fit tyres with a lower rating than the recommended for your car, going higher has no implications as it's a load based on the maximum pressure of the tyre.

The MPS4S (like the previous Michelin) is a far superior tyre to any that Goodyear and Pirelli offer.

The MPSS is no longer available in your sizes with an N rating, but it was once. Its still available without the N rating.

Personally in my experience Porsche won't not take your car back just because of the tyres. I would always rather have the best most modern tech in my tyres as it makes a huge difference every day of my ownership and enjoyment of the car. Far more important than to worry about me giving the car back one day sometime years in the future and live with a possible disagreement with Porsche, that is unlikely to happen anyway.

Everybody is different though, and some are happy to have crap tyres and live in fear of Porsche...

DJMC

3,431 posts

102 months

Saturday 4th February 2017
quotequote all
On load indexes, Michelin tell me this morning that the higher indexes are to satisfy all Porsche cars wearing these two sizes.

The fronts, at 92Y satisfy "Porsche Cayman type 981 3.8 385hp GT4 front measurement 235/35 R20 92V."

The rears "the Porsche 911 type 911 4.0 500hp GT3 RS rear measurement 265/35 ZR20 99(Y)."

That's explains it in one way, but it raises another question as supposedly these tyres are made to "suit the characteristics of the vehicle". Forgetting the load index for a moment... how does one tyre (265) suit a 911 and also a 981/982?

It must have been a happy coincidence for Michelin and the two Porsche teams working on each model that their findings as to the best compounds, design, tread pattern, etc was identical when they submitted their requirements to Michelin!

A question for Porsche perhaps? I realise I'm splitting hairs and Beanoir is perhaps correct in saying a higher load index "can't hurt" but it destroys the idea that N marked tyres are made for a specific vehicle. "N" stands for "profit" perhaps?

SimonOcean

Original Poster:

317 posts

152 months

Saturday 4th February 2017
quotequote all
DJMC said:
The fronts, at 92Y satisfy "Porsche Cayman type 981 3.8 385hp GT4 front measurement 235/35 R20 92V."
Dare I say it when a lot of readers seem happy to ignore me, but I think Michelin reps that you have spoken to do not really know what they are talking about with regard to the correct fit for these Porsches. Specific criticism in response to the assertion above:

My research indicates that the correct tyres for the 981 GT4 are:
Front 245/35 ZR 20 91Y
Rear 295/30 ZR 20 101Y

Quite which Michelin are recommending 235mm width tyres for the front of a GT4 seems bizarre. There is also a much smaller discrepancy as regards the load rating. At least that is, is your quotation is accurately transcribed.

DJMC

3,431 posts

102 months

Saturday 4th February 2017
quotequote all
Yes, it's cut and pasted.

Maybe they looked at the GT4 winter setup by in error and made the MPS4S summer tyre to suit:




From: http://content2.eu.porsche.com/prod/pag/tequipment...

hixster

354 posts

216 months

Saturday 17th June 2017
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Found this thread as i'm due new boots. My Cayman 981S still has the original tyres on which are Pirellis.

Having read this thread, did the PS4s materialise / did anyone get them?

I've seen PS2s are available for my car now, are these the ones to get and preferable to the Pirelli's?

Any advice appreciated.

https://www.asdatyres.co.uk/michelin/pilot-sport-c...

bcr5784

7,102 posts

144 months

Saturday 17th June 2017
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I think ASDA have got it wrong. Michelin don't quote any N rated tyres for 19 or 20" rims.

hixster

354 posts

216 months

Saturday 17th June 2017
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Seems there are quite a few other places though
http://www.liskeardtyres.co.uk/TyreSearch/Details/...

https://tyresavings.com/michelin/pilot-sport-cup-2...

Including black circles


Edited by hixster on Saturday 17th June 20:23


Edited by hixster on Saturday 17th June 20:24

hixster

354 posts

216 months

Saturday 17th June 2017
quotequote all
From looking on Michelins site they don't list any tyres apart from winter tyres, so looks like I'm sticking with the Pirellis

7184c

415 posts

90 months

Saturday 17th June 2017
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hixster said:
From looking on Michelins site they don't list any tyres apart from winter tyres, so looks like I'm sticking with the Pirellis
Have you not looked at the Goodyear eagle f1s as an alternative?