SUVs - Whats the point?
Discussion
Firstly, before we begin, I am not an environmentalist or a hardened socialist (in fact, I'm very much the opposite) or anything like that - This is a genuine question. However, I must state that none of my arguments below apply if one genuinely uses a 4x4/SUV for going off road or for actual outdoors activities where the roads are rough, etc. etc.
Now I honestly don't mean to rattle any cages here. I understand that I'm in the minority of the developed economy population - and indeed, probably the world population could they afford them - in that I cannot see the point of a 4x4 for city, motorway or suburban use.
What brought this on then? Well my family love 4x4s, and they tend to get angry when I ask them why they would trade off so many physical factors for what I find to be negligible/irrelevent factors in favour of them. None of them have ever been off-road, indeed like 99% of urban-dwelling SUV owners today, and use arguments like "You can see further ahead" (given that most cross-overs aren't really that much taller than a hatchback, I rubbish this argument straight away), as well as the seats being in a more chair-like position which is supposed to be more comfortable.
Now just stating the obvious here, but for those couple of things mentioned above for that you have traded off both fuel economy, wear and tear and driving dynamics. First of all, a bigger box of a car will use more metal and will be of greater mass/heavier. Additionally, a taller car has a higher centre of gravity (CoG) - This then requires more engineering to go into smart suspension systems to reduce body roll as well as squat and dive. A combination of greater mass and high CoG also means more load on the brakes, both reducing their effectiveness as well as life. More mass also means more for the engine to lug around, so this of course means a bigger engine and more load on the engine compared to its saloon counterpart, using more fuel and reducing performance (hp/tonne) for a given engine. More engineering to overcome all these problems (mainly in the suspension system), needs clever engineering - which manufacturers have done and I'm not denying that - to make it drive more like a saloon car.
But this takes us back in a circle. What's the point of a SUV if you're not going off road in it?.
Again, i'm not against the urban SUV at all - if people want it, and manufacturers are making it for them, then go ahead. Its just that I don't understand the point of them.
I feel like I've missed something somewhere. Besides, if the majority of people aspire to owning a 4x4/SUV, there must be something that I don't understand rather than the other way round.
Now I honestly don't mean to rattle any cages here. I understand that I'm in the minority of the developed economy population - and indeed, probably the world population could they afford them - in that I cannot see the point of a 4x4 for city, motorway or suburban use.
What brought this on then? Well my family love 4x4s, and they tend to get angry when I ask them why they would trade off so many physical factors for what I find to be negligible/irrelevent factors in favour of them. None of them have ever been off-road, indeed like 99% of urban-dwelling SUV owners today, and use arguments like "You can see further ahead" (given that most cross-overs aren't really that much taller than a hatchback, I rubbish this argument straight away), as well as the seats being in a more chair-like position which is supposed to be more comfortable.
Now just stating the obvious here, but for those couple of things mentioned above for that you have traded off both fuel economy, wear and tear and driving dynamics. First of all, a bigger box of a car will use more metal and will be of greater mass/heavier. Additionally, a taller car has a higher centre of gravity (CoG) - This then requires more engineering to go into smart suspension systems to reduce body roll as well as squat and dive. A combination of greater mass and high CoG also means more load on the brakes, both reducing their effectiveness as well as life. More mass also means more for the engine to lug around, so this of course means a bigger engine and more load on the engine compared to its saloon counterpart, using more fuel and reducing performance (hp/tonne) for a given engine. More engineering to overcome all these problems (mainly in the suspension system), needs clever engineering - which manufacturers have done and I'm not denying that - to make it drive more like a saloon car.
But this takes us back in a circle. What's the point of a SUV if you're not going off road in it?.
Again, i'm not against the urban SUV at all - if people want it, and manufacturers are making it for them, then go ahead. Its just that I don't understand the point of them.
I feel like I've missed something somewhere. Besides, if the majority of people aspire to owning a 4x4/SUV, there must be something that I don't understand rather than the other way round.
Edited by sonnenschein3000 on Monday 12th June 13:55
I'm with you on this, and I drive a Range Rover.
Yes, that's right, I agree... Bear with me.
All these halfway house cars, the ones that couldn't get you out of a damp field, the 2wd cars that look like they should be 4wd, the chunky stick on plastic bits that are supposed to make them look "tough". Hate all of it. With a passion.
If you're going to have an SUV, have a bloody massive "proper" one. Range Rover, Discovery, Jeep Grand Cherokee, etc.
Do I take my Rangie off road very often? Not really. Am I glad it has the capability to drive over anything and everything my travels around the country may throw in my path? Absolutely. Would I have the same level of confidence in a Vauxhall Mokka X? Er, no.
Yes, that's right, I agree... Bear with me.
All these halfway house cars, the ones that couldn't get you out of a damp field, the 2wd cars that look like they should be 4wd, the chunky stick on plastic bits that are supposed to make them look "tough". Hate all of it. With a passion.If you're going to have an SUV, have a bloody massive "proper" one. Range Rover, Discovery, Jeep Grand Cherokee, etc.
Do I take my Rangie off road very often? Not really. Am I glad it has the capability to drive over anything and everything my travels around the country may throw in my path? Absolutely. Would I have the same level of confidence in a Vauxhall Mokka X? Er, no.
Well this is a groundbreaking topic...
Some people prefer SUVs. A number of SUVs are bloody good cars in their own right. I'd probably have a Q7 or a Range Rover if a well specced, sensibly priced example caught my eye at the right time. Nothing to do with anything other than getting from A to B in a manner which seems acceptable in my circumstances. Just like any other choice, it's not always about which option is objectively the best.
Some people prefer SUVs. A number of SUVs are bloody good cars in their own right. I'd probably have a Q7 or a Range Rover if a well specced, sensibly priced example caught my eye at the right time. Nothing to do with anything other than getting from A to B in a manner which seems acceptable in my circumstances. Just like any other choice, it's not always about which option is objectively the best.
People want them, maybe people just like how they look? Who cares their choice
Whats the point of a convertable in the UK?
Whats the point of any car that goes above 70mph?
Whats the point of a rolex when a £5 casio does the job?
Whats the point of cars in town centres? Walk and cycle
what the point of anything in life?
Whats the point of a convertable in the UK?
Whats the point of any car that goes above 70mph?
Whats the point of a rolex when a £5 casio does the job?
Whats the point of cars in town centres? Walk and cycle
what the point of anything in life?
I think people like the way they look and have a certain image of SUVs.
There are so many people I know who aren't into cars but want a newer car or have looked around and the likes of a Ford Kuga or Nissan Gashquai seem to be high up on their list of wants, let alone the Footballers wives special, the Evoque!
I can almost see the appeal, the idea of having a car that's utilitarian and purposeful....something that most of these SUVs aren't anyway!
I suppose like any era of cars, SUVs are very 'in' with the majority and as mentioned people think they're safer and more spacious!
Usually though, when I see something like a Q3 or X3 it's obvious they wanted the "4x4" as opposed to the likely cheap A3 or 3 series which probably offers the same amount of room and handles better
There are so many people I know who aren't into cars but want a newer car or have looked around and the likes of a Ford Kuga or Nissan Gashquai seem to be high up on their list of wants, let alone the Footballers wives special, the Evoque!
I can almost see the appeal, the idea of having a car that's utilitarian and purposeful....something that most of these SUVs aren't anyway!
I suppose like any era of cars, SUVs are very 'in' with the majority and as mentioned people think they're safer and more spacious!
Usually though, when I see something like a Q3 or X3 it's obvious they wanted the "4x4" as opposed to the likely cheap A3 or 3 series which probably offers the same amount of room and handles better
I have a 2002 CRV, why? Well...
1. Had a crash and needed something quickly and cheaply - it cost me £2300
2. Wife wanted something tall where our German Shepherd and Border Collie could sit up in when we're out and about
3. Swing door makes it easier to put said dogs in with while being able to push them back if needed so they don't get hit with a lowering tailgate - yes they can be quite dumb/escape artists sometimes, swing door gives me more control than having to crouch to push them back in
4. When on a jaunt around the countryside we can see over the hedges and get a better view of the road around corners so are more able to pull in to let people by on single track lanes - some quite tall hedges around
5. When we go out to fields to walk the dogs if it's slippy/muddy the 4wd kicks in to give us a hand
6. I have hip and back problems so getting in/out of lower cars can be a pain
7. I can pretend (in my head) to be in the A-Team/secret service
1. Had a crash and needed something quickly and cheaply - it cost me £2300
2. Wife wanted something tall where our German Shepherd and Border Collie could sit up in when we're out and about
3. Swing door makes it easier to put said dogs in with while being able to push them back if needed so they don't get hit with a lowering tailgate - yes they can be quite dumb/escape artists sometimes, swing door gives me more control than having to crouch to push them back in
4. When on a jaunt around the countryside we can see over the hedges and get a better view of the road around corners so are more able to pull in to let people by on single track lanes - some quite tall hedges around
5. When we go out to fields to walk the dogs if it's slippy/muddy the 4wd kicks in to give us a hand
6. I have hip and back problems so getting in/out of lower cars can be a pain
7. I can pretend (in my head) to be in the A-Team/secret service
Sten. said:
Image
Its most probably this I'm gathering. Again, nothing wrong with it. Its like buying a nice watch, its purely cosmetic, and in a capitalist society its important to have "carrots"/aspirations to encourage entrepreneurship / hard work in general. Its what creates employment for others, creates exports (hopefully) and ultimately the economy moving.
I was just asking from a sort of 'pure petrolhead' point of view, in terms of hard solid arguments. But I also appreciate that not everyone is an engineer or a petrolhead.
Shotaro said:
I have a 2002 CRV, why? Well...
1. Had a crash and needed something quickly and cheaply - it cost me £2300
2. Wife wanted something tall where our German Shepherd and Border Collie could sit up in when we're out and about
3. Swing door makes it easier to put said dogs in with while being able to push them back if needed so they don't get hit with a lowering tailgate - yes they can be quite dumb/escape artists sometimes, swing door gives me more control than having to crouch to push them back in
4. When on a jaunt around the countryside we can see over the hedges and get a better view of the road around corners so are more able to pull in to let people by on single track lanes - some quite tall hedges around
5. When we go out to fields to walk the dogs if it's slippy/muddy the 4wd kicks in to give us a hand
6. I have hip and back problems so getting in/out of lower cars can be a pain
7. I can pretend (in my head) to be in the A-Team/secret service
Ah yes but you seem to be out in the country a lot and can see the advantages of a 4x4 first hand. My original post was more for urban dwellers.1. Had a crash and needed something quickly and cheaply - it cost me £2300
2. Wife wanted something tall where our German Shepherd and Border Collie could sit up in when we're out and about
3. Swing door makes it easier to put said dogs in with while being able to push them back if needed so they don't get hit with a lowering tailgate - yes they can be quite dumb/escape artists sometimes, swing door gives me more control than having to crouch to push them back in
4. When on a jaunt around the countryside we can see over the hedges and get a better view of the road around corners so are more able to pull in to let people by on single track lanes - some quite tall hedges around
5. When we go out to fields to walk the dogs if it's slippy/muddy the 4wd kicks in to give us a hand
6. I have hip and back problems so getting in/out of lower cars can be a pain
7. I can pretend (in my head) to be in the A-Team/secret service
However, I take (6) on board as something that can apply to anyone with back problems.
chrispj said:
I don't have an suv but there two things thing that are irritating enough to have me consider one for my next car - speed bumps and pot holes. Both are multiplying like crazy round my way. Obviously this means not getting one with wafer thin low profile tyres...
Yeah, to be fair, I've heard a few underbody scrapes in my 'road' car and got a kick up the backside a few times from potholes. I see where you're coming fromI'm on my 3rd CRV. Why? I live on a steep hill which the council don't grit. Two of us have CRVs and have been known to tow the BMW X5 up the hill.
I also like the height,as my back problems make it difficult to get in and out of low cars.
And lastly, it's actually smaller in length than a Mondeo / A4 / 5 series, plus to me it's more comfortable than any BMW / Audi / Merc / Vauxhall or Ford and more reliable than any of them too!
I also like the height,as my back problems make it difficult to get in and out of low cars.
And lastly, it's actually smaller in length than a Mondeo / A4 / 5 series, plus to me it's more comfortable than any BMW / Audi / Merc / Vauxhall or Ford and more reliable than any of them too!
Ah right, yep, no idea why if you live in a city you want a big box, out in the country it is a big help
Must admit, I do miss having something a bit less tall mind, coming from S13 200sx, E46 M3 and a classic Scooby a car on stilts is a bit odd, especially when you corner for the first few times - a CRV does not corner as well as a Scooby I can definitely say that after taking a roundabout on the first day after buying it
Must admit, I do miss having something a bit less tall mind, coming from S13 200sx, E46 M3 and a classic Scooby a car on stilts is a bit odd, especially when you corner for the first few times - a CRV does not corner as well as a Scooby I can definitely say that after taking a roundabout on the first day after buying it
From my interactions with others and my own ownership of serveral 4x4s:
- Driving position
- Space (at least in the proper huge ones)
- Illusion of snow and ice competence (actually SUVs are awful apart from in deep powder)
- Safety or the illusion thereof
- 'lifestyle' image
- Towing
TwistingMyMelon said:
People want them, maybe people just like how they look? Who cares their choice
Whats the point of a convertable in the UK?
Actually the UK climate is brilliant for convertibles, many foreign places are simply too hot if there's any traffic
Whats the point of any car that goes above 70mph
Top speed is merely a byproduct of decent accelerative ability and good gearing for noise and economy
Whats the point of a rolex when a £5 casio does the job?
Valid point, one for the resident jewelery enthusiasts
Whats the point of cars in town centres? Walk and cycle
Many of us have to drive to get to the town in the first place
what the point of anything in life?
Whats the point of a convertable in the UK?
Actually the UK climate is brilliant for convertibles, many foreign places are simply too hot if there's any traffic
Whats the point of any car that goes above 70mph
Top speed is merely a byproduct of decent accelerative ability and good gearing for noise and economy
Whats the point of a rolex when a £5 casio does the job?
Valid point, one for the resident jewelery enthusiasts
Whats the point of cars in town centres? Walk and cycle
Many of us have to drive to get to the town in the first place
what the point of anything in life?
Because its a free country and people like/want them?
I've had SUVs in the past. ML and X5. I didn't go off-road (did have a 1980s Range Rover for emergencies and green-laning fun when I ran an Exige as a daily driver though, but I digress.)
I've just ordered my new car. I very nearly went for another SUV, RR Sport, but ended up with an order for a new Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio
The pull for me for an SUV was, and still is (and probably will be next time around), they are practical - I can fit my bike in easier than in an estate car (and it doesn't look like I'm driving a hearse) and it's nice having a higher driving position, plus the safety aspect of having my family higher up.
Mostly subjective, but it's a free world!
I've had SUVs in the past. ML and X5. I didn't go off-road (did have a 1980s Range Rover for emergencies and green-laning fun when I ran an Exige as a daily driver though, but I digress.)
I've just ordered my new car. I very nearly went for another SUV, RR Sport, but ended up with an order for a new Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio
The pull for me for an SUV was, and still is (and probably will be next time around), they are practical - I can fit my bike in easier than in an estate car (and it doesn't look like I'm driving a hearse) and it's nice having a higher driving position, plus the safety aspect of having my family higher up.
Mostly subjective, but it's a free world!
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