Rollers vs Turbos

Author
Discussion

Janosh

1,735 posts

166 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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TonyHetherington said:
How on earth do you start a roller? I mean, how do you get up and riding on it!?
You start off with near a wall (some people start in a corridor so you have support on both sides)

It seems extremely difficult the first time you try them, but the secret to stability is speed - something like a 50-15 gear is ideal..

After a dozen or so rides on a parabolic trainer, riding no handed is reasonably easy..

okgo

37,843 posts

197 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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GnuBee said:
Kurt Kinetic Road Machine - chosen because it seemed to be favoured by the people behind TrainerRoad and that's the system I plan to use it with.

Not cheap though...
I'm getting this one too. Be interested to hear your thoughts on how loud it is...

NitroNick

743 posts

209 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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okgo said:
I'm getting this one too. Be interested to hear your thoughts on how loud it is...
I have the Rock and Roll version, which I believe is the exact same but mine allows the bike to rock from side to side (which sounds great but in reality is pointless).
They aren't too noisy, but its worth investing in a sound deadening mat to kill the sound and absorb sweat.

BadgerBenji

3,524 posts

217 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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Janosh said:
TonyHetherington said:
How on earth do you start a roller? I mean, how do you get up and riding on it!?
You start off with near a wall (some people start in a corridor so you have support on both sides)

It seems extremely difficult the first time you try them, but the secret to stability is speed - something like a 50-15 gear is ideal..

After a dozen or so rides on a parabolic trainer, riding no handed is reasonably easy..
I have a set of spare wheels for my car, so have them at the side, bike on top of the rollers, sit on bike, one hand on top of the wheels, then just start pedalling, then just keep pedalling. When you want to stop, hand on top of wheels, and let it all slow down naturally, unclip and go for shower.

TonyHetherington

32,091 posts

249 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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Gotcha. So the rule is you need something (or someone) next to you to start smile

BadgerBenji

3,524 posts

217 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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TonyHetherington said:
Gotcha. So the rule is you need something (or someone) next to you to start smile
Yep, that's it in a nutshell. They provide a nice way of having a gentle ride or doing intervals all the while promoting bike handling and core stability workout.

GnuBee

Original Poster:

1,272 posts

214 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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I did really like the idea of rollers but when it came down to it the ones that seemed to be the best, especially given the sort of training plans/regimen on offer from TrainerRoad, were the Elite e-Motions. These seemed to start at £600 and go up from there...

Whether you can stand up, do full power etc on rollers that are not e-motions I don't know all I know is I didn't want to spend time learning the trainer if you see what I mean. The turbo, whilst "boring", offered the simplicity of just bolting the bike and going with no concern around setting up in door way, corridor etc etc.


Uriel

3,244 posts

250 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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Janosh said:
After a dozen or so rides on a parabolic trainer, riding no handed is reasonably easy..
Actually, there are more than a few track coaches that when teaching a rookie to use the rollers will get them to start no handed and only once they've gotten the hang of that, progress to hands on the bars. Don't need to be parabolic rollers either. The bike will stay bolt upright, rock solid and stay put as long as you're pedalling at a reasonable rate, exactly like it would on the road. It's just that it takes confidence to do it. IME (and that of the coaches that use this method) is that it's the lack of confidence that has the newbie gripping the bars with tensed arms while putting quite a bit of weight through them. This leads to lots of tiny (or not so tiny) tremors and movements of the arms/hands/bars which destablise the bike. This leads to it getting wobbly or just seeming unstable which increases the intensity of the death grip and it descends into a vicious circle.

Janosh

1,735 posts

166 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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Uriel said:
Actually, there are more than a few track coaches that when teaching a rookie to use the rollers will get them to start no handed and only once they've gotten the hang of that, progress to hands on the bars. Don't need to be parabolic rollers either. The bike will stay bolt upright, rock solid and stay put as long as you're pedalling at a reasonable rate, exactly like it would on the road. It's just that it takes confidence to do it. IME (and that of the coaches that use this method) is that it's the lack of confidence that has the newbie gripping the bars with tensed arms while putting quite a bit of weight through them. This leads to lots of tiny (or not so tiny) tremors and movements of the arms/hands/bars which destablise the bike. This leads to it getting wobbly or just seeming unstable which increases the intensity of the death grip and it descends into a vicious circle.
hehe What you're describing at the end reminds me of my first attempt on the rollers...

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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On British Cycling: Road to Glory, did everyone see the thing that Brailsford trained on?

Was basically a massive running treadmill but for a bike. What is it and how much would it cost?

drinks

115 posts

233 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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Great thread, just ordered the Tacx Satori from wiggle, though they seem to have gone up in price by £20 in the last day or so. The latest £40 off code meant I got a trainer tyre and sweat cover for virtually nothing so not all bad. Just have to wait until the end of the month for stock.
Trainer road looks just what I needed to get the most out of it. Was looking at the Tacx flow VR before this thread so I make that £300 in the new wheels fund [/man maths]

sw67

298 posts

158 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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I have been using my 17 year old Marin MTB with slicks all summer to help with a knee injury. I dont cycle and have not used my bike for at least 12 years so i had a real problem with winter on the way - get warm clothing or a trainer.

I decided to get Tacx rollers and after a few mins i could stay on them for as long as i wanted - i think it helps that i have a worktop at a good height both sides so i relax and dont worry about falling off.

Johnny

9,652 posts

283 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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London424 said:
On British Cycling: Road to Glory, did everyone see the thing that Brailsford trained on?

Was basically a massive running treadmill but for a bike. What is it and how much would it cost?
Excellent! I knew I'd seen it but couldn't think where. Was starting to think I'd imagined it hehe

No idea where you'd get one or how much though. Can't imagine it'd be cheap!

Uriel

3,244 posts

250 months

Thursday 11th October 2012
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I saw that and thought it must be great as far as feeling like actually riding goes, but at least with rollers you can have restistance. With the treadmill can't have any at all. Don't really see the advantage over standard rollers, given the size/cost of that set up. Some free motion rollers should get you the same feel and benefit.

Saying that, they did look like they were taking their toll on Dave B.

Bedford Rascal

29,469 posts

243 months

Thursday 11th October 2012
quotequote all
London424 said:
On British Cycling: Road to Glory, did everyone see the thing that Brailsford trained on?

Was basically a massive running treadmill but for a bike. What is it and how much would it cost?
I didn't see it. Did he take off?

GnuBee

Original Poster:

1,272 posts

214 months

Thursday 11th October 2012
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So the Kurt Kinetic Road Machine arrived yesterday, along with the riser block and a Garmin ANT+ USB stick. I didn't get a chance to get everthing setup until this afternoon so here we go:

The Kurt Kinetic seems to be well made, some assembly is required and it came with a replacement skewer for the real wheel. Total setup time was probably 5 minutes at most.

Mounting the bike is trivial although I'm trying to think of a good solution to ensuring you get a repeatable amount of pressure between the resistance unit and the rear time (even at my risible power levels it needed more than the 2 turns they suggest to prevent slipping).

Setting up TrainerRoad is trivial. The Garmin ANT+ USB stick made the cadence/speed and heart rate sensor available to TrainerRoad. Once the devices were paired and I selected the Kurt as the power source I was able to see my "virtual power" in the TrainerRoad software.

I then subjected myself to the 8 minute test which on the face of it sounds easy but turned out to be an "experience" - 28 minutes of warm up followed by 2 x 8 minute blocks at threshold. At the end of the test it calculates new FTP and LTHR for you - which is good since it defaulted to 200 for me and thankfully downgraded that somewhat optimistic figure.

One thing I can say is that at no time was I bored, I was shattered, mentally scarred, alarmed to see a HR I've not seen since I was 10 years younger and I was hot, very hot.

For those concerned about noise - I didn't think it was particularly noisy - not enough to drown out the sound of my own heart beat or the dodgy Bond film on in the background.

okgo

37,843 posts

197 months

Thursday 11th October 2012
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Noise, does it make much? Mine hasn't arrived yet.

Have you any previous dealing with wattage, if so how accurate do you think it is?

I've also ordered the pro heavyweight flywheel for mine as apparently it makes it feel more realistic, did you find it slowed down really quick if you stopped peddling and felt a bit un-realistic?

Johnny

9,652 posts

283 months

Thursday 11th October 2012
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Sounds good! Really wanting a trainer or rollers for the winter months.

Kurt Rock and Roll + Trainerroad is my top choice at present.

GnuBee

Original Poster:

1,272 posts

214 months

Thursday 11th October 2012
quotequote all
okgo said:
Noise, does it make much? Mine hasn't arrived yet.

Have you any previous dealing with wattage, if so how accurate do you think it is?

I've also ordered the pro heavyweight flywheel for mine as apparently it makes it feel more realistic, did you find it slowed down really quick if you stopped peddling and felt a bit un-realistic?
Noise - not bad at all, I was able to hear background TV and the sound of my own exploding heart quite clearly.

I've never had any experience with real power meters so I've gone purely off what I see on their website where they compare it to a powertap IIRC.

It did not slow down particularly quickly - I was surprised at how "normal" it felt from a riding perspective. You want to generate more power - then pedal faster and/or shift gears for example rather than twist a knob with some vague notion of resistance.


okgo

37,843 posts

197 months

Thursday 11th October 2012
quotequote all
Thanks for that.

I looked up trainer road, seems like it a good bit of kit, don't think I will need it with an actual powermeter though.

I look forward to the suffering.