Opinions sought on a "Best XC/Trail MTB" award shortlist...

[Kermit power]

Silver940 said:

Might be the angle of the photo but that head angle looks pretty slack on the Bird, more trail bike than XC racer. Not entirely sure that fits the requirements as well as the Trek/XTC/Scott bikes

Bird looks damn cool though!

YJ's not after a race bike though. He's after an all round trail bike that he can also do a race on.

[yellowjack]

Woody said:

Do you want a 29'er?
What size frame are you looking at? Thy sometimes look 'oddly proportioned' on smaller frame sizes.
I'd probably avoid the Saracen unless you're going to splash the rest of your budge on upgrades straight off - the forks are dire....

Having only ridden the previous Bird Zero (briefly) they're a cracking bike and seem well made.
Have you spoken to the guys a Bird to see if they have a set of wheels you could 'borrow' until the correct ones arrive?

I like the look of the Orange - always had a bit o a soft spot for them though although never tried one.

It coms down to if you want a full on XC machine or something that'll be at home n trails and steeper stuff.

Still not entirely sure on the wheel size if I'm honest. But I'm leaning heavily toward 650B rather than 29er. Which, given the "smart wheel sizing" design of the Trek would rule out the 17.5" frame I'd need for a decent fit. The next one down (15.5" frame) is the largest of their 650B Superflys.

The Saracen was a true 'wildcard' - there'd have been no upgrades, just an El Cheapo bike to get me mobile and ride the race until I made a proper decision later in the year. It's currently not looking like "a plan" though.

The Zero? I popped in to Bird today at close of business. Ben was in - I only just caught him. So we had a brief chat, and there are some options, including your idea of borrowing a set of wheels until their ship comes in with new stocks aboard. So the Bird is firmly back in the frame, and Ben asked me to come back to ride a demo bike some time this week so that's another trip out sorted.

The Orange? That was out of the running as of 4.30pm, when the lad at Mountain Trax phoned their supplier (Orange direct?) and found out that there were no medium Clockwork 100/120 bikes available. But then 'wobert' linked to en ex-show Clockwork 100 (29er) direct from the factory. So that's a possibility again if I can live with the 29" wheel on what's quite a tall top-tube.

I'm not after an out-and-out XC racer really. The bike needs to be as much at home on local trails and twisty stuff as it is on a race lap to be honest, as I'm only going to ride the occasional one-off race or series. So a more trail-focused machine would likely be a good bet, as that's where it'd spend most of it's 'working life'. But I'd like it to climb well more than I need it to take Black Run downhill hits.

[yellowjack]

Silver940 said:

The smallest Trek Superfly is a 650B then they are 29er, you'd have to check your size to see which frame suits

Already been there, and briefly ridden the 29er in the 17.5" frame. The 15.5" bike was just too small, as I was left sitting like I had a broom handle up me chuff. Short legs but a longer torso (bike fitters description, not mine) seems to put me onto a size medium in all of the bikes I've shortlisted. Ben at Bird was insistent that their 'small' ex-demo bike (£600 ) was too small for me, and he wants me to come back to ride the medium Bird Zero Mk1 demo bike to prove the point.

[Herman Toothrot]

I'd go 650b if I were you, I'd also lean towards trail bike angles, makes for a more all round bike. You can XC to your hearts content on a trail bike but can find XC race type bikes no fun whatsoever if you find yourself wanting to go down steeper rough stuff, there's good reason the trail bike market is doing so well and race type XC becoming less popular. I agree with Trek in that ideal wheel,size is quite related to rider height. I have tried a very nice very expensive salsa 29er and it felt like a barge, am 5'10", 650b I'm perfectly happy with but each time I ride my old 26" bikes I think they are more fun.

Edited by Herman Toothrot on Monday 29th February 23:06

[yellowjack]

Silver940 said:

Lefty..

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b0s155p5411/CANNOND...

Full suss, air forks..

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b0s183p5823/GIANT-A...

Carbon, Air Forks.. seems a bit of a bargain

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b0s182p5504/SCOTT-S...

Hello you!

Sorry, but no love for the Cannondale from me, I'm afraid. Just can't get over the aesthetics, no matter how sound the science behind the engineering. Same with the Scale 735, although that's also out "because budget". I've pushed it as far as I dare, and have to be absolutely strict at £1000 (although it's actually more like £972.82 - I know because I've done the maths. )

The Giant Anthem, though, I've found at £899.99 (Winstanleys) or £1099 (Pedal On) as well as your link to Pauls Cycles (£919.99)

The think with that is the added complexity, and I'm not sure full suspension is what I'm after?

[yellowjack]

BadgerBenji said:

The trek looks nice, but have a soft spot for oranges.

In other news I will see you there at Battle On the Beach, I'm racing my singlespeed mtb on the Saturday evening, and racing the singlespeed cyclocross on the Sunday. I know I own a fat bike but just fancied getting the file treads out.

I'll look out for you there, Benji. Is that a cyclocross class within the main race on the Sunday? Or a separate event? Matbe I don't need a new MTB after all - I'll just stick 28mm tyres on the old Falcon and gurn my way round on a 53/39t chainset? If I can make it round a Brass Monkeys lap on it Pembrey must be easily achievable, no?

As far as I can tell both the Trek and the Clockwork are only available in 29" flavour, and I'm leaning heavily toward the 650B wheelsize now.

[yellowjack]

tjdixon911 said:

pablo said:

Personally I'd have a look on bike-discount for a Radon...

...the 2016 Radon ZR Race 7.0 is has a Fox 32 fork, mavic Crossride wheels, XT components and its just over 11.5kgs.... and the best bit, its 1156 Euros...

...credit to Bird who are doing something different though.

If I had £1k, I'd be on that ZR Race 7.0 though, its so much bike for the money its impsssible to then buy something else which has every single part down spec'd.

I'd recommend a Radon, not that I own one but my brother owns a Team and his friend has the latest ZR Race (Think its the 7.0) - excellent bikes for the money, they arrived just over a week after ordering if not within the week.

That said, I am tempted by the Bird AM currently, either that or an Orange Crush...

Thanks for the suggestion on the Radon chaps! I hadn't thought of them to be honest.

But I'm going to pass on them if I may. I really need to see, touch, and if possible ride this bike before I buy it. Plus the RADON ZR Race 27,5 7.0 is £1062.44 and above budget. The ZR Race 29 7.0 *Opening-Deal* is £939.75 but needs shipping and whatnot adding, so it'll be £964.04 delivered which is a big decision to make, and a lot of money to spend, as I'll not know if the 29er frame is something I can live with until I unbox it.

Both of you mention the Bird, too. There seems to be a lot of love for the Bird Zero in this corner of Pedal Powered

[yellowjack]

Kermit power said:

If it were me, it would have to be the Bird, if only because it's the only one you've posted up which has a dropper post. I really wouldn't go back to riding a bike without one now that I've got them...

Sadly no dropper post at my budget, Kermit. But I'm sure I can talk over a future upgrade with Ben. They say they only sell the dropper posts with complete bikes, but Bird are very local, and I can be very vocal. I'll point him to this thread and see if he can't be a little lenient with policy seeing as I'm raising the profile of Bird within this thread, and I probably won't shut up about it if I do buy one...

JustinF said:

I'd be buying the Bird because it's everything you want from your budget but more than that it's built by a little local indie and that would be worth a lot to me; a little personal service, some local kudos riding it round your local area, an RTB warranty like nothing you'd have by post, that little smile that having something a little different almost bespoke gives.
I know you like to mull all the options and take your time, but you say it's urgent and sometime it's best to dive in and get on with it. None of your options are bad.

The more I think about it, the more it's looking like the Bird will come out on top. The 650B wheels seem more right and the lower top tube appeals to my inside leg measurement in simple "crush avoidance" terms.

wobert said:

Bird or Orange for me.

Both Britsh designed and/or made. Personally I try to go for less mainstream makers, "another" bike from a large manufacturer doesn't do it for me (IMHO). I've ridden a Current Clockwork in 100mm/29er flavour and it rode nicely, uphill especially so. My first proper MTB was a ''94 Clockwork, so that would help the decision making.....

Not sure on your sizing requirements, but Orange sell ex-show models which are usually better equipped for less than RRP, this one is on their website in a Medium:

https://www.orangebikes.co.uk/shop/factory/ex_demo...

I had a look at the link, and it's the 29er with 100mm fork travel. So I'm not sure about it. The top tube on the 650B Clockwork 120 was high as it was. I just fear that the 29er 100 will be 1½ inches too far for my short legs. But I'm with you on the 'British designed' local company thing. I haven't seen a bad word written about Bird, their bikes, or their service, and I've met Ben, Dan, and Dave at various times and they're all pretty good eggs, very easy to talk to and more than willing to go that little bit further in the name of customer service. I just need to identify some hills now to roll the Zero up on the test ride. If it climbs well, and isn't too slack then I think, if all goes well when I go back for a proper chat and a test ride, that it'll be the one I end up with.

Silver940 said:

Might be the angle of the photo but that head angle looks pretty slack on the Bird, more trail bike than XC racer. Not entirely sure that fits the requirements as well as the Trek/XTC/Scott bikes

Bird looks damn cool though!

Kermit power said:

YJ's not after a race bike though. He's after an all round trail bike that he can also do a race on.

Scott - I think it's true to say that the Bird has the slackest head angle of all the shortlisted bikes. And it's certainly aimed squarely at the trail side of things. But that's what it'll be doing the most, local twisty turny single track and the Swinley Trail Centre Red and Blue trails. The race on the 20th is certainly the trigger for the purchase, but as Kermit says, it's not the primary reason for wanting the bike. Plus most of the races I'll do on it will be local, so if it's suitable for the local trails in 'peacetime' then I'm sure it'll hold it's own during the war fighting phase of any local races.

Next step, though, is to see Ben and Dan, and get a demo day arranged so that I can ride it to be sure that it's what I want to be riding for the foreseeable future. I need to get this right because there's no real 'slack' in my finances to sell this next bike at a loss to have another crack of the whip. It's very much a one-shot-deal.

[yellowjack]

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. Even if I've disregarded your advice and suggestions, it's nice to see what other people are thinking WRT what they might do, or even what they did do, when it comes to spending what is a very large chunk of money on a bicycle.

I went out this afternoon on my road bike, and did a little loop to see all of the contenders back-to-back, as it were...

https://www.strava.com/activities/505742266

...three shops, four bikes, and now a shorter shortlist. The Scott is gone. Might as well have been on the end of Dan Biggar's boot when I looked at it again, back-to-back with the Trek and the Bird.

The Orange Clockwork? Apparently out of stock in size Medium. Which is a shame, as I was pretty close to pulling the trigger on a Clockwork 120 (650B) - it just looks sooooo right 'in the metal'.

The Trek? Well I'm still struggling to commit to the 29er wheelsize if I'm honest. Which would also rule out wobert's link to the ex-factory Clockwork 100 S, sadly. Despite a £350 saving on what is essentially a brand new bike that's been on display at industry shows a few times.

It's looking more and more like the Bird as a front runner. There are a few choices to make with that, such as whether it should be a Zero TR 3 with borrowed wheels for pretty much ALL of the budget, a run-out Zero XT 11-speed 'clearance edition' with SRAM XD 10-42t cassette for £1095 (yeah, I know! It's over budget and I said I'd be strict with the £1000 cap! ), or there's a possibility that Ben might be willing to release one of the medium demo bikes a little earlier than he'd intended. Around £600 for that, dependent upon the detail of the spec-sheet. I have my fingers crossed that the boys at Bird HQ are in a good mood when I pop back.

I'm in less of a spin now. One down, two to go, but there's a clear leader emerging from the pack. Plus, I have to say, right now, having seen the new TR close up in a work stand this afternoon...

...the pictures on the website do not do any justice to how good the Zero looks "in the metal". It's a fabulous looking thing. And as someone said further up the page, it's all the bike I could want at my budget, and although the frames are manufactured in the Far East (much like most of the big players' frames are too), the bikes are put together in a small industrial unit less than 8 miles from my front door. So they're as local a bike manufacturer as I'm ever going to find.

I'm happier now that a decision looks to be within reach. I will keep the thread updated, with pictures of whatever I buy to bring it to a conclusion. For now, though, thanks for all your input. Much appreciated!

[nessiemac]

I love my Bird Zero, my son loves his Bird Zero. Get the Bird Zero!!!

It is perfect for swinley/ tunnel hill or anywhere you care to ride!

This is mine.



And this is my lad on his

Edited by nessiemac on Tuesday 1st March 01:02

[Woody]

yellowjack said:

Still not entirely sure on the wheel size if I'm honest. But I'm leaning heavily toward 650B rather than 29er. Which, given the "smart wheel sizing" design of the Trek would rule out the 17.5" frame I'd need for a decent fit. The next one down (15.5" frame) is the largest of their 650B Superflys.

The Saracen was a true 'wildcard' - there'd have been no upgrades, just an El Cheapo bike to get me mobile and ride the race until I made a proper decision later in the year. It's currently not looking like "a plan" though.

The Zero? I popped in to Bird today at close of business. Ben was in - I only just caught him. So we had a brief chat, and there are some options, including your idea of borrowing a set of wheels until their ship comes in with new stocks aboard. So the Bird is firmly back in the frame, and Ben asked me to come back to ride a demo bike some time this week so that's another trip out sorted.

The Orange? That was out of the running as of 4.30pm, when the lad at Mountain Trax phoned their supplier (Orange direct?) and found out that there were no medium Clockwork 100/120 bikes available. But then 'wobert' linked to en ex-show Clockwork 100 (29er) direct from the factory. So that's a possibility again if I can live with the 29" wheel on what's quite a tall top-tube.

I'm not after an out-and-out XC racer really. The bike needs to be as much at home on local trails and twisty stuff as it is on a race lap to be honest, as I'm only going to ride the occasional one-off race or series. So a more trail-focused machine would likely be a good bet, as that's where it'd spend most of it's 'working life'. But I'd like it to climb well more than I need it to take Black Run downhill hits.

You can't say fairer than that can you.
I've spoken to Dave at Bird a few times and he's been really helpful - If I hadn't bought a Nukeproof Mega frame off ebay in a moment of madness I'd probably have a Bird now (they were out of stock on Aeris until Feb...).

As for a dropper post - if you're not a massive weight weenie - the KS eTen for around £90 from bike-discount.de is a bargain. Had mine for around 12 months now and had no issues with it - unlike mates with reverbs and other 'high end' droppers.

[yellowjack]

Woody said:

...as for a dropper post - if you're not a massive weight weenie - the KS eTen for around £90 from bike-discount.de is a bargain. Had mine for around 12 months now and had no issues with it - unlike mates with reverbs and other 'high end' droppers.

I'll have a look for that dropper post at some later date, Woody. It's not top of my list of priorities right now, as just getting a decent bike would be lovely for a start off. Droppers and other potential upgrades could easily wait until my bank account recovers from the pasting it'll get from buying the bike in the first place. I've also got to get the old GT Avalanche back into working order for my son, as the family BSO/College Beater is on it's last legs and I don't want him risking having his nice GT stolen from outside school. Plus that'll earn me brownie points with the wife, for complying with her "You have enough bikes already! One in - one out!" rules...

[Craikeybaby]

Have you bought the Bird yet?

Are there any shops with the 650b Clockwork in stock?

With regards to wheel size, I also have short legs and a long torso, I have ridden 29ers, but 650b feels better.

[Kermit power]

nessiemac said:

I love my Bird Zero, my son loves his Bird Zero. Get the Bird Zero!!!

It is perfect for swinley/ tunnel hill or anywhere you care to ride!

This is mine.

How on earth did you get it to stand up with no visible means of support?

[BadgerBenji]

yellowjack said:

I'll look out for you there, Benji. Is that a cyclocross class within the main race on the Sunday? Or a separate event? Matbe I don't need a new MTB after all - I'll just stick 28mm tyres on the old Falcon and gurn my way round on a 53/39t chainset? If I can make it round a Brass Monkeys lap on it Pembrey must be easily achievable, no?

As far as I can tell both the Trek and the Clockwork are only available in 29" flavour, and I'm leaning heavily toward the 650B wheelsize now.

You can race on anything you like as long as it's safe, just fancy taking the cyclocross bike for the ride, should be great for the first third of the course up the beach, the rest of it might be interesting.

[yellowjack]

Craikeybaby said:

Have you bought the Bird yet?

Are there any shops with the 650b Clockwork in stock?

With regards to wheel size, I also have short legs and a long torso, I have ridden 29ers, but 650b feels better.

Give a girl a chance dude! I've been washing my hair!!!

Not seen any stock of the 650B Clockwork, at least not local to me.

Wheel size? I think I'm decided now. It'll be 650B. Unless I change my mind and go with the Trek.

[Craikeybaby]

Kermit power said:

nessiemac said:

I love my Bird Zero, my son loves his Bird Zero. Get the Bird Zero!!!

It is perfect for swinley/ tunnel hill or anywhere you care to ride!

This is mine.

How on earth did you get it to stand up with no visible means of support?

It looks like the support has been photoshopped out.

[richardxjr]

YJ - yeah in your shoes if I was set on buying a whole bike (which I wouldn't) I'd go 650B.

Anyway. Get a dropper on and go tubeless straight away! (yes, I know how much you like patching tubes)

[AndyWoodall]

I'd go with the Bird, given what you've posted.

If you decide not to its worth having a look at Saracens again. The Mantra Trail is a decent bike.

[Kermit power]

Why is it that I've always associated Saracen with nasty £99 Bike Shaped Objects?

Obviously not the case when you look at the sort of lush stuff Manon Carpenter is riding World Cup races on, but I'm really struggling to shift that perception. Did they sell a lot of cheap and nasty at one time, or was there a similarly named company that did or something?