29er XC Hardtail recommendations

[warp9]

troc said:

At least you have retained ONE of your original requirements - XC Hardtail with 29" wheels

I'm viewing it as an educational experience!

[nickfrog]

Bill said:

I did think 1x was a bit emperor's new clothes because you lack top end, but the less maintenance trade off is worth it. And let's face it you only really need top end if you're doing big distances or chasing CX KoMs on gravel tracks.

Exactly. 32t x 10t gives me 24mph at 90 cadence. Any faster and it's not mountain-biking IMO.

For me the "trade-off" is about having a simpler / more intuitive tranny.

[nickfrog]

warp9 said:

I'm viewing it as an educational experience!

Makes sense, but make sure you ride a 27.5 HT too, hopefully a boost. It might be as educational.

Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 7th November 14:11

[warp9]

nickfrog said:

having a simpler / more intuitive tranny.

I thought Eddie Izzard was into running?

[opieoilman]

I'm with Nickfrog. I've only got back into riding again after a break, so I might not be the most experienced, but the 1x11 Sram on my new bike is brilliant. I've been looking at getting a full suspension bike and there are a few in my price range, but I'm only going to go for one with a 1x set up. It's just so simple and quicker through the ratios.

[nickfrog]

warp9 said:

nickfrog said:

having a simpler / more intuitive tranny.

I thought Eddie Izzard was into running?

Damn, I knew this would happen as I was typing - still you deserve a

[Craikeybaby]

opieoilman said:

I'm with Nickfrog. I've only got back into riding again after a break, so I might not be the most experienced, but the 1x11 Sram on my new bike is brilliant. I've been looking at getting a full suspension bike and there are a few in my price range, but I'm only going to go for one with a 1x set up. It's just so simple and quicker through the ratios.

It is easy enough to convert 2x or 3x to 1x.

[Daveyraveygravey]

nickfrog said:

Not sure if you have much experience with 1x.

You're right, I have never ridden a 1x. But I have ridden a lot of MTB with a triple, and a lot of road with all kinds of doubles (and a triple. This had a 53/39/30 (I think!) and a 12-23. Lovely close gears at the back, and nice big jumps at the front. Would like to try Hardknott on it).

My gripe with 1x mainly is with how the manufacturers and the press are trying to introduce it to road biking, where it really handicaps a bike, to my mind. 11 speed with a double is a perfect compromise; having any single ring at the front will mean you either can't climb, or you can't push it downhill (or even on the flat with the right conditions). On the road, it strikes me that 1x will have you hunting for a better gear a lot more of the time. And for me, this would also be a factor in my mtb riding.

nickfrog said:

There aren't any more gaps if you look at it. Range is almost identical.

Possibly the absolute top and bottom of the range may be identical, but you are stuck with whatever front ring you have, and you will have gaps when you go up or down a cog at the back that you wouldn't have with double or triple. This is more important for a road bike, but I can see cases when grip is low and you are climbing off road when you don't want 2 or 3 teeth in the next cog.

nickfrog said:

I don't get the bit about racing as 1x increases the risk of dropping the chain, even though it's almost zero with NW chain rings.

I'd read somewhere that this was a benefit of 1x; that with a clutch it reduced the occurrence of the chain coming off at the front. Maybe I read it wrong, or misunderstood? Anyway, there are times I lose the chain at the front, and the front mech plonks it back on.

nickfrog said:

And I'm not even talking about the advantages (it has transformed my enjoyment of cycling). I have never met anyone who misses the front mech, but I have no issues with someone preferring one.

I just don't see the "advantages". I'd love to know the weight differences between a double or triple and a 1x, I doubt they are more than a couple of hundred grams. Front mechs in my experience don't go wrong that often, and yes there is a bit more cleaning to be done, but not that much. Simpler? What's hard about pushing a button with your left hand for a big change, and your right hand for a small change?

My MTB has a hard life, and doesn't get the maintenance it should. Sometimes the front mech gets so covered in crud I can't get it to drop onto the granny ring from the middle; usually at the bottom of a big hill...This is frustrating, but I would find it much more frustrating to not be able to get the right gear.

A roadie friend treated himself to over £3k of Mason Bokeh, which is a lovely bike, and I wish I had that choice; I just have a proper road bike and a proper MTB. We had a road ride to Bignor Hill recently, which is just about road bike ok; you have to get it past a farm and the asphalt has pretty much gone. The climb itself is a dead end at the top, very steep and usually wet. It would make perfect sense on his Mason with it's wide tyres and better clearance, but he didn't come along. I think his lack of climbing gears put him off. I know this is a niche example, but I would want to be able to ride that bike up that hill, and with a 1x I think it would have been a walk.

[DJFish]

Just to add to the whole CX vs downhill argument, I ride a 23" frame 29er hard tail, and am 6'4", the bike is cracking across country until it comes to tight twisties & downhill.
I tried some 'proper' downhill last week and my body felt like it was in completely the wrong position, a dropper post (& some brave pills) would probably have helped but the bike felt very ungainly & unsuited to what I was trying to do.

Definitely the bike's fault.....

[Mr Gearchange]

DJFish said:

Just to add to the whole CX vs downhill argument, I ride a 23" frame 29er hard tail, and am 6'4", the bike is cracking across country until it comes to tight twisties & downhill.
I tried some 'proper' downhill last week and my body felt like it was in completely the wrong position, a dropper post (& some brave pills) would probably have helped but the bike felt very ungainly & unsuited to what I was trying to do.

Definitely the bike's fault.....

That was my experience - tried to tackle a fairly technical DH, jump line on my CX bike. 6 broken ribs and a collapsed lung.
Bikes fault. I ordered a slacker, bigger travel AM bike from my hospital bed. Loads better.

(admittedly that put me in hospital as well, and in the end I bought a DH rig too - but a good trail bike in the modern mould are incredible all rounders)

[nickfrog]

Daveyraveygravey said:

You're right, I have never ridden a 1x.

Which you need to do as it would address all your reservations about it, at least in a MTB context (I don't know anything about road so I don't comment about it). The press/manufacturers have followed the trend, not created it. The advantages have nothing to do with weight.

[PDP76]

I ride a Cube Acid 29er (2014)
It’s perfectly adequate for the majority of my riding. Bit difficult in the Peak District, but do able. The exception being Jacobs Ladder, I think it would break it.
I’m looking at this to spoil myself after Christmas.
Similar budget to the op.

https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Nukeproof-Scout-275-Race-...

[Tall_Paul]

Single chainrings have the narrow/wide profile which keeps the chain on a lot better than a standard chainring, with a clutch mech and a narrow/wide front ring there's no need for a chain device unless you're hitting big gnarly downhill runs.

[Daveyraveygravey]

nickfrog said:

Which you need to do as it would address all your reservations about it, at least in a MTB context (I don't know anything about road so I don't comment about it). The press/manufacturers have followed the trend, not created it. The advantages have nothing to do with weight.

Perhaps I do. I only recently tried a 29 er (I have a 10 year old Boardman hardtail 26er, which is perfect for my riding in the South Downs. It's marginally too small for me, which has pros and cons) and found it generally clunkier - slower to get moving, harder to change direction, harder to stop. It did fly downhill, but I have had one too many scary descents to actually want to go any faster downhill!

[warp9]

Hi all. Thought I'd give you an update of my excellent adventures last Friday afternoon. So I took out a 2018 Orange Stage 5 29er (it did get some admiring glances) and rather felt like tubby middle aged bloke in all the gear but no idea. Fortunately I wasn't wearing any lycra. The bike was definitely more capable than me! I also met an 81 year old bloke called Alf who offered to show me round The Dog. I was a bit hesitant at first, but he was a great guide and was good to have the company. I was also taking it fairly steady as I haven't done anything like this in a good few years.

Anyway, the bike was fantastic. The larger wheels took some getting used to round the twistier technical stuff but it was easier on my second run round The Dog (familiarity I suppose) although it felt like I had to wrestle with it a bit. However on more open ground the wheels really flowed well.

The slacker front end felt great, difficult to compare it ATM, but I certainly wouldn't have an issue with it going forward.

So next step is to try a 27.5" hardtail which I'm planning to do next week. Given that I've just been spoilt on the Orange, I hope that doesn't encourage me to consider FS. Is that the sound of budget creep over there in the corner....

[Fluffsri]

Budget creep you say

http://www.pacecycles.com/pacecycles-rc127-1/

[Craikeybaby]

I tried a 29er round the dog and found it tricky in some of the tighter sections.

I find it much less tiring riding a full sus bike at Cannock, and trying an Orange led to some serious budget creep.

[Mr Gearchange]

The quickest bike round both trials at Cannock is a lightweight, carbon 29" hardtail.
The speed at which the lycra whippets can do those stty fire-road transitions and the climbs is really impressive.

However they never seem to be having as much fun as I am on my 26" full-susser which is stable and a right giggle on the black sections and anything more technical on the Monkey. Plus I can pootle over the Stile Cop and ride everything on the hill on the same bike.

29" wheels are the DSG of the MTB world - yes they make you quicker, but ultimately its less involving and less fun that older technology.

[Tall_Paul]

warp9 said:

Hi all. Thought I'd give you an update of my excellent adventures last Friday afternoon. So I took out a 2018 Orange Stage 5 29er (it did get some admiring glances) and rather felt like tubby middle aged bloke in all the gear but no idea. Fortunately I wasn't wearing any lycra. The bike was definitely more capable than me! I also met an 81 year old bloke called Alf who offered to show me round The Dog. I was a bit hesitant at first, but he was a great guide and was good to have the company. I was also taking it fairly steady as I haven't done anything like this in a good few years.

Anyway, the bike was fantastic. The larger wheels took some getting used to round the twistier technical stuff but it was easier on my second run round The Dog (familiarity I suppose) although it felt like I had to wrestle with it a bit. However on more open ground the wheels really flowed well.

The slacker front end felt great, difficult to compare it ATM, but I certainly wouldn't have an issue with it going forward.

So next step is to try a 27.5" hardtail which I'm planning to do next week. Given that I've just been spoilt on the Orange, I hope that doesn't encourage me to consider FS. Is that the sound of budget creep over there in the corner....

The stage 5 is spot on for general trail riding, 135/140mm travel and a 66.5 HA, don't get too hung up on 27.5 vs 29 - both have their pluses but you'll still have a great time on either. a 29er will have better momentum, will plugh through stuff faster/easier, but will be less agile. The 27.5 will be more twitchy but much more agile and flickable. 100% try and get a demo on a 27.5+ hardtail though, the bigger tyres offer a little bit more cushoning which will be nice to have on a hardtail.

I reckon budget creep will kick in and you'll end up on a FS bike, the comfort of a FS bike isn't something to overlook escially if you're going to be doing any long rides If you forget about getting a 29er, you CAN get a decent FS bike for not much more than a grand, for example:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitus-bikes-esc... £995 after discount.

I'm hopefully going to be in the market for a nice FS bike come summer, I've gone from getting a £1800 bike in the sales, to seeing GX eagle and adding that as a requirement, hence upping the budget to £2500... then in the last couple of days I've seen a frankly gorgeous bike with literally everything on my wishlist (none of which I actually need, but hey... ) including a carbon frame, Fox factory forks/shock/dropper and GX eagle, which pushes the budget up to around 3k... The good news is by the time I can afford it, the 2019 models will be just around the corner and I'll be able to pick one up for about £2500

[Bill]

Personally I've found 27.5 X 2.4 running tubeless feels plush enough on a hardtail after 26" X 2.1.