New wheels

Author
Discussion

lufbramatt

Original Poster:

5,318 posts

133 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
quotequote all
Been after a new set of wheels+tyres for my CAAD8 for a while, Merlin have got fulcrum racing 3's with Conti GP4000 s2s and tubes for £325 (plus I've got a fiver voucher too which would pay for the postage). Seems about £35ish cheaper than anywhere else. Had been looking at DCR handbuilts and hunt 4 seasons but they would be another £100 on top once you get tyres.

Anyone run those wheels and have any opinions good or bad?


ALawson

7,814 posts

250 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
quotequote all
Racing 3s are ok, but when the rims wear out they will be for the bin. The DCR and Hunts will be able to be rebuilt.

I personally wouldnt buy any wheel that isnt tubeless ready and wide.

Also look at CERO, TheCycleClinic, Stayer Cyckes etc. For other hand built options,

lufbramatt

Original Poster:

5,318 posts

133 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
quotequote all
Very good points. Wouldn’t want to ding a rI’m and scrap the whole wheelset. Think I’ll leave it then and get a pair of hand built wheels in the new year. Thanks for recommendations of other brands o look at.

ALawson

7,814 posts

250 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
quotequote all
That's my personal view, there will be a few along in a minute extolling the Campy Zondas. Nothing wrong with factory wheel sets just I will stick with hand builts.

gazza285

9,780 posts

207 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
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Planet X have Pacenti SL25 rims on offer, pair them up with a set of Novatec hubs and D/B stainless spokes, and you can have a pair of good wheels for less than £160...

Matt_N

8,900 posts

201 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
quotequote all
Racing 3 are a bit old hat now and behind the curve as they don't have the new C17 (Campagnolo's new wider profile) rim.

They are tubeless comparable though. The main draw back for me as said is that with 16f and 21r spokes you are pretty much out of luck for replacement rims. The hubs would probably do 2 or 3 rims swaps but it's not an option.

I'm another fan of handbuilts, but propert specced and built on decent branded components rather than the latest fad of builders popping up everywhere offering basically the same rim and hub builds under their own name, think Pacenti / Kinlin rims and generic hubs.

For £300 I'd go Miche Primato hubs at around £75 a pair, not lightweight but big axles and bearings means they last plus they roll well. Rims could be H Plus Son Archetype, 23mm external width, welded joint and well made, about £60 each.

Non bladed spokes from Sapim or DT will be around £1 each, if you went 24/28 you'd have a decently strong wheelset, leaving you about £60 for a shop to build them up.

Another rim option is the DT R460, sleeved joint but well made and around £40 each or the new Open Pro UST, £60 each, 23mm width.

FerdiZ28

1,355 posts

133 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
quotequote all
I went for the racing 3s (super6) as I’m of the heavier size and they fit good reviews. Naievely thought they would last forever and be able to be rebuilt but it appears not. IF I get 4000 Miles out of them I’ll be happy, not keen on running them to the end of their life and they should last 5000 really with tyres.

I don’t do much hunting anymore, the guilt got to me, God’s creatures and all that.

Chicken Chaser

7,744 posts

223 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
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I've got 2 pairs of Cero's now, a set of AR30s on my Dale and a pair of ARD23s on my Croix de Fer. Both are under 1500g a pair. The AR30s roll beautifully, and are a definite upgrade on the Aksiums, although are a narrow rim. I was very tempted with a pair of Hunts but for the price decided to try the ARD23s on the Croix and I'm pleased to say that they have been a great purchase. Again roll well, come with all the options for axle and disc fit, Sapim spokes with spares (not needed yet). Nice and true and have been good for 1000 miles so far.
They're now going through winter and seem good so far. Tubeless also.

firemunki

361 posts

130 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
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I've got a pair of Kinetic K133 lights, approx 1500g for the pair. Had them 4 months and have been rock solid, others in my club have had them for years without complaints.

Kawasicki

13,041 posts

234 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
I've been riding Racing 3 wheels for the past 7000 km. There is still loads of life left in them. I like them because they have good steering, they are fairly light for the money, they roll well, and they seem to be quite tough, in terms of not going out of round. I am light, at 65kg, but I hit speed humps and cattle grids with fairly high speeds (80km/h) and the wheels have stayed true.

I use SwissStop blue brake blocks with them...I clean the rims and the brake block surface (pick out alloy particles and expose a new surface) pretty regularly, more often when I ride in the wet. If I don't do this the braking performance drops off fairly quickly, particularly in the wet.

So, I like them.

lufbramatt

Original Poster:

5,318 posts

133 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
thanks all for comments

Matt_N said:
Racing 3 are a bit old hat now and behind the curve as they don't have the new C17 (Campagnolo's new wider profile) rim.

They are tubeless comparable though. The main draw back for me as said is that with 16f and 21r spokes you are pretty much out of luck for replacement rims. The hubs would probably do 2 or 3 rims swaps but it's not an option.

I'm another fan of handbuilts, but propert specced and built on decent branded components rather than the latest fad of builders popping up everywhere offering basically the same rim and hub builds under their own name, think Pacenti / Kinlin rims and generic hubs.

For £300 I'd go Miche Primato hubs at around £75 a pair, not lightweight but big axles and bearings means they last plus they roll well. Rims could be H Plus Son Archetype, 23mm external width, welded joint and well made, about £60 each.

Non bladed spokes from Sapim or DT will be around £1 each, if you went 24/28 you'd have a decently strong wheelset, leaving you about £60 for a shop to build them up.

Another rim option is the DT R460, sleeved joint but well made and around £40 each or the new Open Pro UST, £60 each, 23mm width.
Good info here, thanks. I'm about 82kg so don't want to go too flyweight on the wheels. I live in north kent so rolling terrain with climbs of up to 200m if I head to the north Downs. How do the Miche hubs compare to say shimano 105? what are they like for spares?

WRT wheelbuilders, do they generally supply the parts themselves or are they open to people bringing in their own bits?

Any good wheelbuilders in the south east? I've had Harry Rowland mentioned to me at work as he's not far from my office but looking at his website he seems pretty old school.


ALawson

7,814 posts

250 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
Malcolm at TCC raves about Miche hubs, they are a bit heavy but all at the hub and once moving hardly makes "that" much difference.

My comment about R3s was based on 93kg weight, I wouldn't not ride on them!

lufbramatt

Original Poster:

5,318 posts

133 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
Just found these:

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections/road-rim-...

Looks like just the ticket smile

Matt_N

8,900 posts

201 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
lufbramatt said:
Good info here, thanks. I'm about 82kg so don't want to go too flyweight on the wheels. I live in north kent so rolling terrain with climbs of up to 200m if I head to the north Downs. How do the Miche hubs compare to say shimano 105? what are they like for spares?

WRT wheelbuilders, do they generally supply the parts themselves or are they open to people bringing in their own bits?

Any good wheelbuilders in the south east? I've had Harry Rowland mentioned to me at work as he's not far from my office but looking at his website he seems pretty old school.
The Miche hubs take an off the shelf sealed bearing, readily available, I've got 2 wheelsets on them, still on original bearings, one set is 5-6 years old the other 3.

105 hubs would be the other suggestion at that price point, they're only available in 32 or 36 spoke counts though, would build a strong wheel mind! Main difference is 105 use cup and cone bearings, so individual ball bearings, easy to service though and roll nicely, I've got 105 5600 hubs in my winter bike, still going strong.

The cycle clinic (Malcolm) https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections/road-rim-... has a really good reputation, you can order directly with him, eg:

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections/road-rim-...

or

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections/road-rim-...

bakerstreet

4,755 posts

164 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
I've gone from traditional ball bearings to sealed ceramic and if you want something that rolls well, I would go with traditional bearings.

The Fulcrums will be a nice upgrade from standard wheels, especially with the GP4000S. I would just buy those.

Matt_N

8,900 posts

201 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
lufbramatt said:
Just found these:

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections/road-rim-...

Looks like just the ticket smile
Ha, just pipped me!

I've got exactly that build but with polished rims and hubs for a classic build, really nice wheels.

idiotgap

2,112 posts

132 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
I rebuilt some shimano factory wheels onto archetypes, but the chat seems to have moved on now. Are they old hat?
Are hunt just rebranded kinlin?

Also a bit confused about where to put the air. Currently I have clincher tyres and the cheapest tubes I can find at the time on all my bikes. What do people mean when they talk about tubs, tubular, tubeless etc. Is there any advantage to me in looking into alternatives when I next buy/build some wheels?

ALawson

7,814 posts

250 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
In theory tubeless tyres i.e. no inner tube, create a seal with the rim, spoke holes are sealed with rim tape (unless you have twin fit fulcrum/campy which haven't got holes on the inside of the rim). Once the tyre is seated on the rim (which can be fun) sealant is inserted through the value stem, sealant can heal holes up to 3-5mm.

I have been running it about 3 years and only issue I have had was 1 sidewall failure on a brand new tyre and a sidewall failure two weeks ago. That's in about say 18k km. I have now invested in a tubeless repair kit (which didn't solve my last failure but I am happy I can seal a big flat which the sealant cannot fix).

Both failures above have resulted in inner tubes being used on the road (not ideal but possible).

Benefits are reduced tyre pressures and comfort, and there is plenty of evidence they are faster then normal clinchers due to a lack of friction between tyre and tube. Never ridden tubs so cannot comment on those.

Where I have struggled over the last 3 years is re-seating removed tyres or getting new ones on, I run IRC tyres and once on the rim when new will normally seal with a track pump. I invested in an Airshot last weekend which has been a revelation, I removed and replaced, inflated a tubeless tyre about 3 times in an hour (without levers getting tyre back on). No problems now. You do need the special IRC levers to assist in getting them one (just bought some) as normal levers can damage the tyre.

It is faff once you start but as long as the rim tape is decent, valve seated in rim it pretty easy to set up. When you first see sealant coming out the tyre and sealing its a revelation.

Not for everyone but I am not going back.

Matt_N

8,900 posts

201 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
idiotgap said:
Also a bit confused about where to put the air. Currently I have clincher tyres and the cheapest tubes I can find at the time on all my bikes. What do people mean when they talk about tubs, tubular, tubeless etc. Is there any advantage to me in looking into alternatives when I next buy/build some wheels?
Tubs and tubular are the same thing, aka a sew up. The inner tube is sewn into the tyre to create a tube and attached to the rim via either glue or tape, you need tubular specific rims.

Archetypes have been around a few years now, but they're still a good rim, decent width, slight aero toroidal profile, good roundness and build strong.

Hunt afaik use Kinlin rims and Novatec hubs or Powerway for disc options.

gazza285

9,780 posts

207 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
Matt_N said:
lufbramatt said:
Just found these:

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections/road-rim-...

Looks like just the ticket smile
Ha, just pipped me!

I've got exactly that build but with polished rims and hubs for a classic build, really nice wheels.
How heavy? My 29er wheels weigh less than that with the discs on...