Road Bikes - Disc or Not

[GOATever]

Kawasicki said:

I go on group rides regularly. In the past year 2 or 3 riders from 10 have switched to discs. Can’t say I have noticed any difference in how quickly they stop compared to those on rim brakes.

I’ve had a couple of nasty ( ish ) prangs happen on my official rides, and one bad one on a non official / club ride, in the past couple of years. Both were caused by a disc-er being in a pack of rim brakes, and panicking about a ( adequately warned about ) hole / drain cover, then having the rim brakes go into and over them, straight into a prickly hedge. The official ones were a royal PITA, because of the paperwork involved. I now ensure the correct grouping, and extra separation, if any disc-ers come along. The same sort of original ‘panicking’ incident has occurred before, but with all rim brakes, the braking effect disparity wasn’t there, and the stop wasn’t so relatively large, and no one crashed.

Edited by GOATever on Friday 9th November 13:52

[GOATever]

E65Ross said:

Do you have the same concern for rim brakes, when some amateurs with mixed abilities are using aluminium rims and carbon rims?

The only occasions that Carbon hoop equipped bikes have turned up, and then ridden with metal tracked rim bikes, the riders have turned out to be experienced enough / skilled enough, with good handling skills to avoid any issues. It’s only happened once in the last 5 years that I can remember.

Edited by GOATever on Friday 9th November 13:53

[Kawasicki]

GOATever said:

Kawasicki said:

I go on group rides regularly. In the past year 2 or 3 riders from 10 have switched to discs. Can’t say I have noticed any difference in how quickly they stop compared to those on rim brakes.

I’ve had a couple of nasty ( ish ) prangs happen on my official rides, and one bad one on a non official / club ride, in the past couple of years. Both were caused by a disc-er being in a pack of rim brakes, and panicking about a ( adequately warned about ) hole / drain cover, then having the rim brakes go into and over them, straight into a prickly hedge. The official ones were a royal PITA, because of the paperwork involved. I now ensure the correct grouping, and extra separation, if any disc-ers come along. The same sort of original ‘panicking’ incident has occurred before, but with all rim brakes, the braking effect disparity wasn’t there, and the stop wasn’t so relatively large, and no one crashed.

Edited by GOATever on Friday 9th November 13:52

I know the panic brakers. The two on discs who ride with us are definitely calm and not prone to grabbing a handful! A couple of the rim riders need careful observation...with a bit of extra room behind them!

[E65Ross]

GOATever said:

E65Ross said:

Do you have the same concern for rim brakes, when some amateurs with mixed abilities are using aluminium rims and carbon rims?

The only occasions that Carbon hoop equipped bikes have turned up, and then ridden with metal tracked rim bikes, the riders have turned out to be experienced enough / skilled enough, with good handling skills to avoid any issues. It’s only happened once in the last 5 years that I can remember.

Edited by GOATever on Friday 9th November 13:53

So it's not a problem to have carbon and aluminium rim brakers in a group, but not disc and rims, purely because of on a couple of times when carbon rimmed wheels have turned up it's been ok? Well, I've done loads of club rides this year on my disc brake equipped bike and haven't had a prang. The argument is a daft one in my opinion.

Should we ban cars with smaller disc brakes than supercars in case supercar drivers brake suddenly? Or what about lorries and cars? Where do you draw the line?

[anonymous-user]

Trek leans towards Disc brakes

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/road_buyers_gui...

I think the transition to discs will gather pace

If your next road bike isn't disc equipped, I think the one after that will be

[GOATever]

E65Ross said:

So it's not a problem to have carbon and aluminium rim brakers in a group, but not disc and rims, purely because of on a couple of times when carbon rimmed wheels have turned up it's been ok? Well, I've done loads of club rides this year on my disc brake equipped bike and haven't had a prang. The argument is a daft one in my opinion.

I’m not saying the Carbon / alloy issue can’t happen, just that it hasn’t , on the rare occasions I’ve encountered that mix. The disc / rim brakes has been an issue a couple of times it’s occured.

E65Ross said:

Should we ban cars with smaller disc brakes
than supercars in case supercar drivers brake suddenly? Or what about lorries and cars? Where do you draw the line?

I draw the line at what I’ve experienced on my rides.

[GOATever]

JPJPJP said:

Trek leans towards Disc brakes

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/road_buyers_gui...

I think the transition to discs will gather pace

If your next road bike isn't disc equipped, I think the one after that will be

As the rate of uptake of disc brakes increases, the disparity problem decreases, as people adjust to the differences, and the amount of disc brakers outnumbers the rim brakers.

[Kawasicki]

I ride old ultegra rim brakes with good pads on alloy rims. In the dry I still brake way later than my riding buddies who use disc brakes. In the wet it is more equal...mainly because I am cautious of the grip of my tyres. I’m not sold on the braking power increase claimed with discs.

[E65Ross]

Kawasicki said:

I ride old ultegra rim brakes with good pads on alloy rims. In the dry I still brake way later than my riding buddies who use disc brakes. In the wet it is more equal...mainly because I am cautious of the grip of my tyres. I’m not sold on the braking power increase claimed with discs.

The advantages with disc isn't just outright power, it's consistency and rate of application of power (in the wet). Pull the lever, there's no delay. There is with wet rim brakes, that's a fact. It's laws of physics of how rim brakes work and having a wet braking surface.

You may be a better braker than your buddies, but that doesn't make rims better than discs. You'd almost certainly be able to apply the brake levers a bit later still with discs.

[anonymous-user]

Also remember that road disc brakes are still quite new in their evolution

Rim brakes from 25 years ago were nowhere near as good as the ones available now

Disc brakes will continue to get better far more quickly than rim brakes from here on in

Any gap that disc brakes need to bridge to match / improve on rim brakes will soon be shrunk

[GOATever]

JPJPJP said:

Also remember that road disc brakes are still quite new in their evolution

Rim brakes from 25 years ago were nowhere near as good as the ones available now

Disc brakes will continue to get better far more quickly than rim brakes from here on in

Any gap that disc brakes need to bridge to match / improve on rim brakes will soon be shrunk

I agree, however until they really become the norm, and their development gets to the point that the ( many ) flaws the road versions suffer from, are overcome, Personally I’ll stick to rim brakes on the road bikes, and save the discs for the heavy Hybrids, and MTBs.

[GOATever]

One real issue for me, is that I do a lot more miles at higher intensity on the road bikes, than I do on the Hybrids / MTBs. For starters, disc pads and callipers are more expensive than road pads / callipers ( generally speaking ). Any damaged callipers are a lot more of a PITA to deal with, and the pads are generally very thin, and don’t last as long as rim pads. So purely on cost and durability, they really don’t feature for me on road bikes just yet.

[E65Ross]

GOATever said:

JPJPJP said:

Also remember that road disc brakes are still quite new in their evolution

Rim brakes from 25 years ago were nowhere near as good as the ones available now

Disc brakes will continue to get better far more quickly than rim brakes from here on in

Any gap that disc brakes need to bridge to match / improve on rim brakes will soon be shrunk

I agree, however until they really become the norm, and their development gets to the point that the ( many ) flaws the road versions suffer from, are overcome, Personally I’ll stick to rim brakes on the road bikes, and save the discs for the heavy Hybrids, and MTBs.

Just out of curiosity, what flaws are they? Admittedly I've only experienced road discs on my current bike which is using Ultegra R8070, have experienced rim brakes on numerous road bikes though and the discs are better than all of them. I had had the bike since January and in that time I have had to do absolutely no adjustment. They work really well in all conditions and the bite of the brakes is far quicker (especially in the wet) than any other rim brake equipped bike I've ever used. In the mean time, on my other bike it has needed new inner and outer cables, and I've had to adjust the barrel adjuster a couple of times to move the pads closer to the rim.

I guess the discs may weigh 300g or so more, perhaps...but, even at a 55kg rider, I don't notice the difference between a 1/2 full and a full drinks bottle, so I doubt any others would really notice much difference. There was also a long descent on my other bike where the rim got so hot it burst a tube, didn't seem an issue on the discs, although they did get a bit hot, but I didn't almost have a serious crash.

Genuinely can't think of a negative to be honest.

[E65Ross]

GOATever said:

One real issue for me, is that I do a lot more miles at higher intensity on the road bikes, than I do on the Hybrids / MTBs. For starters, disc pads and callipers are more expensive than road pads / callipers ( generally speaking ). Any damaged callipers are a lot more of a PITA to deal with, and the pads are generally very thin, and don’t last as long as rim pads. So purely on cost and durability, they really don’t feature for me on road bikes just yet.

In my opinion, tyres and brakes are not things to skimp on. For the sake of a few quid every few years, it's a non-issue!

[frisbee]

GOATever said:

One real issue for me, is that I do a lot more miles at higher intensity on the road bikes, than I do on the Hybrids / MTBs. For starters, disc pads and callipers are more expensive than road pads / callipers ( generally speaking ). Any damaged callipers are a lot more of a PITA to deal with, and the pads are generally very thin, and don’t last as long as rim pads. So purely on cost and durability, they really don’t feature for me on road bikes just yet.

You might want to measure how much thickness is remaining on your rims' braking area...

[GOATever]

frisbee said:

You might want to measure how much thickness is remaining on your rims' braking area...

The braking tracks do wear out, but nothing like as quickly as a disc pad / calliper combo. I may have to replace a rim / wheel every couple of years at the mileage / conditions / intensity I ride at, but that’s not a massive problem, and usually works out cheaper ( dependant on rim obviously) than the current disc brake offerings. One big problem I had a while back with a ( borrowed ) hydraulic disc brakes road bike, was debris damage to the hydraulic line. I had no front brake, and a load of uppy downy terrain still to come. It wasn’t fun. The ( relatively ) huge callipers, and where they are mounted, can be a big issue.

[E65Ross]

I'm not sure how the hydraulic lines were damaged.... But mine are largely internal so can't see that being a problem and I can't see if being more of a cencern than on a rim brake bike. It hasn't been a problem in the god knows how many years I've been using mountain bikes! I'd like to see pics of you have any?

Are you really making a point of the cost of pads and rotors? They last ages on road cycling! Also depends on your wheels as to the cost. A set of pads Is what £15-20? Set of decent swissstop rim pads is about the same.

With all due respect, do you buy cheap tyres because they're cheap, or do you prefer ones with more grip that may cost a bit more? I just can't believe you're using pad prices as a negative for discs, any difference, if there is any, is so ridiculously small that it's not even worth mentioning when compared to tyre replacement costs, chain replacements, innertubes etc. You say about the cost of the pads.... But what about the cost of inner and outer cables that need to be changed annually at a minimum of you're doing the "intense" riding you do, doing that costs as much as a set of pads alone! Your argument doesn't make sense to me.

This year I've had a rear brake cable snap and my front had increased friction so wouldn't return (causing a rubbing brake even with the caliper opened!).... But I wouldn't say that's particular downside to rim brakes, that's just maintenance needed, of which they need more in my experience. Been using discs for years on mountain bikes and a year on the road bike, much more overall use than I've had with rim brakes, and yet I've needed more attention spent on the rim brakes.

[whatleytom]

I have to admit being amongst the naysayers when the first disc road bikes started cropping up. The looks, the differential in performance, the new wheelset etc... But as time moves on and disc bikes seem to have vastly improved I have started to change opinion. What really changed my mind for good was first wearing out a pair of 404s, then melting a brake track on some £1500 carbon climbing wheels. Neither of those things need to happen on a disc bike, and all with improved braking performance in crap conditions, a more aero frame and more tyre clearance. I find myself thinking its increasingly difficult to justify buying another rim brake frame. With my winter/commuter also a disc bike even more so for the summer bike. As a result, just ordered the new Venge frame.

[TheInternet]

JPJPJP said:

Also remember that road disc brakes are still quite new in their evolution

They've had 20+ years development on MTBs, not sure there's going to be that much to gain despite the road specific application.

[TheInternet]

E65Ross said:

I guess the discs may weigh 300g or so more, perhaps...but, even at a 55kg rider, I don't notice the difference between a 1/2 full and a full drinks bottle, so I doubt any others would really notice much difference.

Looking at a CAAD12 Ultegra, the rim brake version is 7.5kg and disc brake is 8.5kg. An irritating penalty IMO but others may feel it's worth it.