High end road ( super ) bikes are getting a bit pricey
Discussion
Wonder how long until 12 speed di2 will come out?! I've been using 52/36 11-30 most of the year and I can't remember which gear but there's a seemingly fair jump in ratios near the middle of the block it'd be nice to fill..... But at the moment I've just fitted 11-32 and 50/34 in prep for Everesting in March/April (likely April due to weather and daylight!).
Back to discs though, of all the people who have ridden them, only a REALLY small amount have said they would like to go back to rim brakes.... Of those, all of them have been because of poor set up. It seems those who say rim brakes aren't an issue haven't tried discs.
Back to discs though, of all the people who have ridden them, only a REALLY small amount have said they would like to go back to rim brakes.... Of those, all of them have been because of poor set up. It seems those who say rim brakes aren't an issue haven't tried discs.
E65Ross said:
Wonder how long until 12 speed di2 will come out?! I've been using 52/36 11-30 most of the year and I can't remember which gear but there's a seemingly fair jump in ratios near the middle of the block it'd be nice to fill..... But at the moment I've just fitted 11-32 and 50/34 in prep for Everesting in March/April (likely April due to weather and daylight!).
Back to discs though, of all the people who have ridden them, only a REALLY small amount have said they would like to go back to rim brakes.... Of those, all of them have been because of poor set up. It seems those who say rim brakes aren't an issue haven't tried discs.
11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-30Back to discs though, of all the people who have ridden them, only a REALLY small amount have said they would like to go back to rim brakes.... Of those, all of them have been because of poor set up. It seems those who say rim brakes aren't an issue haven't tried discs.
11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32
Yes I need to get a new hobby.
E65Ross said:
Wonder how long until 12 speed di2 will come out?! I've been using 52/36 11-30 most of the year and I can't remember which gear but there's a seemingly fair jump in ratios near the middle of the block it'd be nice to fill..... But at the moment I've just fitted 11-32 and 50/34 in prep for Everesting in March/April (likely April due to weather and daylight!).
Back to discs though, of all the people who have ridden them, only a REALLY small amount have said they would like to go back to rim brakes.... Of those, all of them have been because of poor set up. It seems those who say rim brakes aren't an issue haven't tried discs.
The two things that stopped me were the costs and the looks - neither of which are a factor for the pros!Back to discs though, of all the people who have ridden them, only a REALLY small amount have said they would like to go back to rim brakes.... Of those, all of them have been because of poor set up. It seems those who say rim brakes aren't an issue haven't tried discs.
I'm sure in the future I'll get discs and I don't doubt they are better
I'm actually quite surprised that looks is seemingly such a large factor in some people when it comes to the things that could have large safety implications. Cost I can understand, although the price difference is REALLY coming down now and the difference is really not very large these days. One thing I never skimp on my car is tyres and brake discs and pads, they're the things that stop you.
I guess it's just fortunate I think discs look better than drum brakes
I guess it's just fortunate I think discs look better than drum brakes
E65Ross said:
those who say rim brakes aren't an issue haven't tried discs.
Precisely this!Weirdly though I was talking to a friend on a ride last night;
"disc brakes are new technology though I think they'll be rubbish for a while so I won't get them"
...mtbs have had discs for 20 years..YOUR mtb has shimano discs..?
"oh..yeah well if you put it like that..."
E65Ross said:
I'm actually quite surprised that looks is seemingly such a large factor in some people when it comes to the things that could have large safety implications. Cost I can understand, although the price difference is REALLY coming down now and the difference is really not very large these days. One thing I never skimp on my car is tyres and brake discs and pads, they're the things that stop you.
I guess it's just fortunate I think discs look better than drum brakes
It's hardly like rim brakes on a road bike make the bike inherently dangerous though so I'm not really sure this argument makes any senseI guess it's just fortunate I think discs look better than drum brakes
What exactly are the specific safety implications? I've got carbon wheels (with a carbon braking track) and rim brakes and even in the wet I've never felt in any danger?
flight147z said:
It's hardly like rim brakes on a road bike make the bike inherently dangerous though so I'm not really sure this argument makes any sense
What exactly are the specific safety implications? I've got carbon wheels (with a carbon braking track) and rim brakes and even in the wet I've never felt in any danger?
If someone on the same bike with disc brakes, weighing the same as you, was riding alongside you, an obstacle came in front of you (eg a deer running out, a car pulling out, whatever) and you both applied force on the brake levers at the exact same time, you'd be slowing down at a slower rate, especially in the wet. Being able to stop faster is a safety thing. Whether you deem it dangerous is down to you, but it's a fact that there's LESS danger with a disc set up.What exactly are the specific safety implications? I've got carbon wheels (with a carbon braking track) and rim brakes and even in the wet I've never felt in any danger?
Would you be happy if the stopping distance in your car in the wet was, say, 10-15% further from pedal application to stopping? Or would you say "it's extremely rare I need to slam the brakes on, so it's fine"?
IMHO that's an overly simplistic assertion along with the overly simplisitic assumption (which in fairness appears to be pervasive 'groupthink' of the age) that the only recourse to any emergency situation is to stop as fast as possible.
- In the dry, my roadbike braking is limited by locking, or more usually by not firing myself over the handlebars. Discs do not stop me faster.
- In the wet, there is an argument. It takes a few feet for the rims to start to grip. Modulation is better on a proper hydro disc, which will help as in the wet locking is more of an issue. That said, the discs on my crosser aren't great in the wet and modulation isn't great either.
- There are terrible disc setups as well as very good (and very terrible) rim setups. The differences between good and terrible are far more than the differences between disc and rim.
Even if the assertion is true, then stopping a few feet shorter is unlikely to be a safety concern. Worst case, I hit something a mph or two faster than I would have with discs. Hardly likely to be the difference between life and death.
'Safety' is so much more than how fast you can stop. If that's your only plan, you failed already.
Consider the conditions and the visibility, think what if. Ride such that you can deal with what might come at you. (If you said you can push harder & go faster with discs in the wet, because you have more margin I might agree.. but that's hardly a safety issue).
Consider that rather than leaving a black rubber line straight to the scene of the accident, you might back off the brakes and steer round it.
So many variables.
If you have decent brakes which can exceed the tyre's grip, any additional benefit is going to be very very minor. By the above logic, every car ever made would be fitted with the absolute ultimate braking system, lest the manufacturer get sued for every accident that happened. That's not so..
ETA: Hope you realise that the stopping distance of your roadcar in the wet probably IS considerably MORE than 10-15% further. It's down to that awkward thing called grip..
- In the dry, my roadbike braking is limited by locking, or more usually by not firing myself over the handlebars. Discs do not stop me faster.
- In the wet, there is an argument. It takes a few feet for the rims to start to grip. Modulation is better on a proper hydro disc, which will help as in the wet locking is more of an issue. That said, the discs on my crosser aren't great in the wet and modulation isn't great either.
- There are terrible disc setups as well as very good (and very terrible) rim setups. The differences between good and terrible are far more than the differences between disc and rim.
Even if the assertion is true, then stopping a few feet shorter is unlikely to be a safety concern. Worst case, I hit something a mph or two faster than I would have with discs. Hardly likely to be the difference between life and death.
'Safety' is so much more than how fast you can stop. If that's your only plan, you failed already.
Consider the conditions and the visibility, think what if. Ride such that you can deal with what might come at you. (If you said you can push harder & go faster with discs in the wet, because you have more margin I might agree.. but that's hardly a safety issue).
Consider that rather than leaving a black rubber line straight to the scene of the accident, you might back off the brakes and steer round it.
So many variables.
If you have decent brakes which can exceed the tyre's grip, any additional benefit is going to be very very minor. By the above logic, every car ever made would be fitted with the absolute ultimate braking system, lest the manufacturer get sued for every accident that happened. That's not so..
ETA: Hope you realise that the stopping distance of your roadcar in the wet probably IS considerably MORE than 10-15% further. It's down to that awkward thing called grip..
Edited by upsidedownmark on Wednesday 23 January 13:42
upsidedownmark said:
ETA: Hope you realise that the stopping distance of your roadcar in the wet probably IS considerably MORE than 10-15% further. It's down to that awkward thing called grip..
I was meaning a 10-15% difference between rim and disc brakes in the wet, not braking distances between dry and wet conditions.Master Bean said:
11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-30
11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32
Yes I need to get a new hobby.
Malcolm at thecycleclinic.co.uk can make you up any 11sp ratio you want using Miche cassette components, compatible with Shimano and Campy. 11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32
Yes I need to get a new hobby.
My next bike will be disk, not because of the argument over which is the best braking (limiting factor is tyre/road in ideal conditions) but more the wearing out of rims and associated costs.
ALawson said:
Malcolm at thecycleclinic.co.uk can make you up any 11sp ratio you want using Miche cassette components, compatible with Shimano and Campy.
My next bike will be disk, not because of the argument over which is the best braking (limiting factor is tyre/road in ideal conditions) but more the wearing out of rims and associated costs.
Totally with you on this.My next bike will be disk, not because of the argument over which is the best braking (limiting factor is tyre/road in ideal conditions) but more the wearing out of rims and associated costs.
E65Ross said:
flight147z said:
Why don't all of the riders on the WT use disc brakes then?
Interesting question I think. If they did make that much of a difference when compared to the other marginal gains that they have all adopted I'm surprised there is anyone left using rim brakes
They weigh a tiny amount more, some, and fair enough, deem it noticeable (I'm 54.5kgs, my FTP is 4.7W/kg at 255W and I don't notice a half-full bidon to a full one....but there we go) and if your finishing up the top of a mountain which may be a 45+ min climb near threshold, it might be a gain of a couple of seconds tops.....Otherwise, no other reason.Interesting question I think. If they did make that much of a difference when compared to the other marginal gains that they have all adopted I'm surprised there is anyone left using rim brakes
Kawasicki said:
Well there are other reasons. Punctures. Supplying a general spare wheel with a disc is tricky, as disc brakes require finer tolerances than rim brakes.
Both of which are relevant for pros but not for the general public I guess!Waiting to see how many miles I get out of my carbon wheels before they "wear out". If it's ~10,000 then I think that is good enough as I'll probably want new wheels then anyway
jontysafe said:
ALawson said:
Malcolm at thecycleclinic.co.uk can make you up any 11sp ratio you want using Miche cassette components, compatible with Shimano and Campy.
My next bike will be disk, not because of the argument over which is the best braking (limiting factor is tyre/road in ideal conditions) but more the wearing out of rims and associated costs.
Totally with you on this.My next bike will be disk, not because of the argument over which is the best braking (limiting factor is tyre/road in ideal conditions) but more the wearing out of rims and associated costs.
I don't do long straights or undulations I like sharp up/downs of West Yorkshire etc.
Some folks are just wealthy and what might seem expensive to most of us is just normal.
The bloke who owns the next-door flat to me has a super expensive looking bike (It has Lightweight Fernweg wheels). He uses it to cycle up and down the valley on a nice day. It's quite obvious from his build that he's not super-fit (he's certainly not fat) but he likes his cycling and is reasonably good for his age.
Does he need such an expensive bike? I doubt it. But he's a man who has a P100D Model X in the underground parking for his chauffeur to drive him about in during the 2 or 3 weeks a year he's here. I have no idea if he keeps the bike here or whether he brings it over in his jet when he flies in. He likes his cycling though given his business commitments I doubt he has as much time for it as he would like.
I suspect if I was in his position I might splash on a nice bike. I suspect it didn't cost much more than the jet fuel he uses getting here from Asia.
The bloke who owns the next-door flat to me has a super expensive looking bike (It has Lightweight Fernweg wheels). He uses it to cycle up and down the valley on a nice day. It's quite obvious from his build that he's not super-fit (he's certainly not fat) but he likes his cycling and is reasonably good for his age.
Does he need such an expensive bike? I doubt it. But he's a man who has a P100D Model X in the underground parking for his chauffeur to drive him about in during the 2 or 3 weeks a year he's here. I have no idea if he keeps the bike here or whether he brings it over in his jet when he flies in. He likes his cycling though given his business commitments I doubt he has as much time for it as he would like.
I suspect if I was in his position I might splash on a nice bike. I suspect it didn't cost much more than the jet fuel he uses getting here from Asia.
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