Nissan Leaf cheaper to run than a bike....Really?
Discussion
BOR said:
Ignoring depreciation/interest etc, then purely in terms of servicing and repairs, I think it's true.
Deprecation on a 24kWh Leaf last 12-24 months has been virtually £0, partly because of the really cheap running costs. I ran a Leaf for 14K miles, I used 3100kWh of cheap overnight electricity over that time period, so £216 to do 14K, or 1.5p per mile in fuel costs....I haven't done that much cycling for a while, but I seem to remember I could get though a good few energy bars over a 60-70 mile ride at speed, and they weren't exactly pennies each. For 'fuel' costs am pretty sure an efficient EV like the Leaf is cheap to run than a human being!!
Ofcourse the other advantage of a Leaf was when it got cold you didn't have to layer up like an eskimo and then worry about overheating! Or infact worry about been run off the road by idiots in cars!
The disadvantage of the Leaf was that you weren't cycling, but these days am old and unfit, so 10-15 minutes is the max I can manage, and the price of a good electric bike seems to be rather eye watering. So I've come up with a half way solution....
Since this is fundamentally a petrol-head forum here are some empirical facts that come in handy :-
Typical cost of refueling an EV with 1kWh = 13p
Typical cost of refueling meat motor with 1kWh (860C) =250g sugar = 35p
CO2 equivalent of Leaf = 33g/km (figures produced by Drax based on mix of UK generation)
CO2 output of cyclist = 21g/km (estimate by European Cycling Federation)
So 2 cyclists in a Leaf produce less CO2 per km than if they cycled. Or if you prefer petrol put 4 cyclists in a Toyota Yaris
Plus of course the Leaf doesn't produce CO2 when its not being used whereas humans don't have stop-start technology so the meat motor emits 50g per hour 24/7
Typical cost of refueling an EV with 1kWh = 13p
Typical cost of refueling meat motor with 1kWh (860C) =250g sugar = 35p
CO2 equivalent of Leaf = 33g/km (figures produced by Drax based on mix of UK generation)
CO2 output of cyclist = 21g/km (estimate by European Cycling Federation)
So 2 cyclists in a Leaf produce less CO2 per km than if they cycled. Or if you prefer petrol put 4 cyclists in a Toyota Yaris
Plus of course the Leaf doesn't produce CO2 when its not being used whereas humans don't have stop-start technology so the meat motor emits 50g per hour 24/7
DS240 said:
BOR said:
Ignoring depreciation/interest etc, then purely in terms of servicing and repairs, I think it's true.
Bike parts are shockingly expensive, but because it's a hobby, we don't complain.
Very high end cassettes are over 400€, tyres can be 50€ each, and don't necessarily last that long.
Particularly on an MTB, a lot of the parts are consumable, or need servicing relatively frequently. I can do it all myself, but adding in labour at a local bike shop would make it even worse.
What cassettes are you buying?! Bike parts are shockingly expensive, but because it's a hobby, we don't complain.
Very high end cassettes are over 400€, tyres can be 50€ each, and don't necessarily last that long.
Particularly on an MTB, a lot of the parts are consumable, or need servicing relatively frequently. I can do it all myself, but adding in labour at a local bike shop would make it even worse.
Even Dura Ace is half that.
Taking extremes isn’t a good comparison. Any reasonable bike is never going be more expensive to run than a car, especially a leaf. Initial values alone kills that argument even on a cheap lease.
https://www.sigmasports.com/item/SRAM/XX1-Eagle-XG...
Jimbo. said:
And who on earth uses them for the day-to-day?!
Plus, if you're using the example of real high-end bike components, one shouldn't compare running costs to a Nissan Leaf, surely? The idea of a Leaf is to be cheap to run for your commute. If you use a cheap bike for the commute the costs will be much lower. Plus.....yes, energy gels/bars etc cost a lot, but if we're using the commute as an example, who on earth needs a gel or whatever for a 5-10 mile ride anyway? Just a little more water and a slightly bigger bowl of porridge at work I just googled a Nissan Leaf, its 30 k!! Thirty Thousand pound!!
My bike that I cycle to work on, cost me £1k, its a well rounded average priced machine to do decent commuting miles on that I pay circa £30 per month on cycle to work scheme
Just looked at leaf lease costs and they are around £260 with £2300 up front
So thats £30 vs £260 plus £2300 up front for a new bike or a new leaf
Even if you buy a second hand Leaf its 10k, you still need to find the money to buy it.
I once did 5k commuting miles on a S/H bike that cost £80 plus about £200 in maintenance, thats less that £300 all in
I commute by bike for Fitness, Mental health and save money in that order, a leaf helps with none of those in my life
Im not knocking leafs, Id have one if I was given one, I wouldnt buy one
My bike that I cycle to work on, cost me £1k, its a well rounded average priced machine to do decent commuting miles on that I pay circa £30 per month on cycle to work scheme
Just looked at leaf lease costs and they are around £260 with £2300 up front
So thats £30 vs £260 plus £2300 up front for a new bike or a new leaf
Even if you buy a second hand Leaf its 10k, you still need to find the money to buy it.
I once did 5k commuting miles on a S/H bike that cost £80 plus about £200 in maintenance, thats less that £300 all in
I commute by bike for Fitness, Mental health and save money in that order, a leaf helps with none of those in my life
Im not knocking leafs, Id have one if I was given one, I wouldnt buy one
TwistingMyMelon said:
I just googled a Nissan Leaf, its 30 k!! Thirty Thousand pound!!
My bike that I cycle to work on, cost me £1k, its a well rounded average priced machine to do decent commuting miles on that I pay circa £30 per month on cycle to work scheme
Just looked at leaf lease costs and they are around £260 with £2300 up front
So thats £30 vs £260 plus £2300 up front for a new bike or a new leaf
Even if you buy a second hand Leaf its 10k, you still need to find the money to buy it.
I once did 5k commuting miles on a S/H bike that cost £80 plus about £200 in maintenance, thats less that £300 all in
I commute by bike for Fitness, Mental health and save money in that order, a leaf helps with none of those in my life
Im not knocking leafs, Id have one if I was given one, I wouldnt buy one
I'm going to replace the Saab with a Leaf.My bike that I cycle to work on, cost me £1k, its a well rounded average priced machine to do decent commuting miles on that I pay circa £30 per month on cycle to work scheme
Just looked at leaf lease costs and they are around £260 with £2300 up front
So thats £30 vs £260 plus £2300 up front for a new bike or a new leaf
Even if you buy a second hand Leaf its 10k, you still need to find the money to buy it.
I once did 5k commuting miles on a S/H bike that cost £80 plus about £200 in maintenance, thats less that £300 all in
I commute by bike for Fitness, Mental health and save money in that order, a leaf helps with none of those in my life
Im not knocking leafs, Id have one if I was given one, I wouldnt buy one
Mr Ted said:
Since this is fundamentally a petrol-head forum here are some empirical facts that come in handy :-
Typical cost of refueling an EV with 1kWh = 13p
Typical cost of refueling meat motor with 1kWh (860C) =250g sugar = 35p
Very interesting.Typical cost of refueling an EV with 1kWh = 13p
Typical cost of refueling meat motor with 1kWh (860C) =250g sugar = 35p
Of course, 1kWh on a bike will get you a lot further than it will in an EV. At least 3 times as far. Probably.
Riding at 333 Watts for 3 hours would get you a long way down the road, even on the most inefficient bike. A relatively fit person would be able to get 45 miles down the road in 3 hours, and wouldn't need 333 Watts to be able to do so.
That would get you, what 3 miles in an EV? If you were carrying 5 people, you could say that it's 15 miles. So even saying it's a third of the price, you're there at the 45 mile marker.
Very interesting.
louiebaby said:
Of course, 1kWh on a bike will get you a lot further than it will in an EV. At least 3 times as far. Probably.
Riding at 333 Watts for 3 hours would get you a long way down the road, even on the most inefficient bike. A relatively fit person would be able to get 45 miles down the road in 3 hours, and wouldn't need 333 Watts to be able to do so.
Don't forget 45 miles in a Leaf would take you ALOT less time, and as we are forever been told, time is money.Riding at 333 Watts for 3 hours would get you a long way down the road, even on the most inefficient bike. A relatively fit person would be able to get 45 miles down the road in 3 hours, and wouldn't need 333 Watts to be able to do so.
Also remember in a Leaf your chance of been squashed/run into is alot less, and even if it does happen than the consequences are far less.
The total fuel costs of my old Leaf really was 1.5p per mile, even including the PCP cost it was under 35p per mile. 35p per mile may not be cheaper than cycling but it is cheaper than most forms of public transport including getting a bus, which lets not forget doesn't always take you where you want to go, and is often late.
The fact this thread even exists shows how cheap EVs are to run in the current taxation system, where EVs are almost tax free compared to combustion cars.
If you are looking for cheap transport, and can live with a range if 60-80 miles than a used Nissan Leaf is hard to beat for running costs, hence why they are essentially stopped deprecating.
Infact having just looked on Autotrader they appear to be appreciating!! A few years ago you could get a used Leaf for £6k, now it appears its £7k minimum, not sure how many pedal bikes go up in value!
Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 29th October 16:38
Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 29th October 16:39
gangzoom said:
Don't forget 45 miles in a Leaf would take you ALOT less time, and as we are forever been told, time is money.
Also remember in a Leaf your chance of been squashed/run into is alot less, and even if it does happen than the consequences are far less.
The total fuel costs of my old Leaf really was 1.5p per mile, even including the PCP cost it was under 35p per mile. 35p per mile may not be cheaper than cycling but it is cheaper than most forms of public transport including getting a bus, which lets not forget doesn't always take you where you want to go, and is often late.
The fact this thread even exists shows how cheap EVs are to run in the current taxation system, where EVs are almost tax free compared to combustion cars.
If you are looking for cheap transport, and can live with a range if 60-80 miles than a used Nissan Leaf is hard to beat for running costs, hence why they are essentially stopped deprecating.
Infact having just looked on Autotrader they appear to be appreciating!! A few years ago you could get a used Leaf for £6k, now it appears its £7k minimum, not sure how many pedal bikes go up in value!
I probably agree with all of that.Also remember in a Leaf your chance of been squashed/run into is alot less, and even if it does happen than the consequences are far less.
The total fuel costs of my old Leaf really was 1.5p per mile, even including the PCP cost it was under 35p per mile. 35p per mile may not be cheaper than cycling but it is cheaper than most forms of public transport including getting a bus, which lets not forget doesn't always take you where you want to go, and is often late.
The fact this thread even exists shows how cheap EVs are to run in the current taxation system, where EVs are almost tax free compared to combustion cars.
If you are looking for cheap transport, and can live with a range if 60-80 miles than a used Nissan Leaf is hard to beat for running costs, hence why they are essentially stopped deprecating.
Infact having just looked on Autotrader they appear to be appreciating!! A few years ago you could get a used Leaf for £6k, now it appears its £7k minimum, not sure how many pedal bikes go up in value!
The single biggest reason that it's very difficult to compare the TOTAL cost of commuting by bike, vs commuting by car, is that it's difficult to say how often you'll have a bacon sandwich for breakfast from the canteen, instead of the much cheaper porridge you took in with you.
He's got a point like ignoring other variables like insurance.
I commute on either my bike or plug in hybrid car.
Work and back costs approximately £1 in electricity in the car. And I definitely eat more than £1 extra in food on the days I cycle. Sure you could eat a bag of sugar for a fraction of a pence, but in reality it means an extra couple of snacks along with the usual boots meal deal, which is at least a few quid more.
Incidentally, I previously worked out the pence per mile it cost me to run a marathon in energy gels - and it was quite high and equated to about 14mpg iirc.
I commute on either my bike or plug in hybrid car.
Work and back costs approximately £1 in electricity in the car. And I definitely eat more than £1 extra in food on the days I cycle. Sure you could eat a bag of sugar for a fraction of a pence, but in reality it means an extra couple of snacks along with the usual boots meal deal, which is at least a few quid more.
Incidentally, I previously worked out the pence per mile it cost me to run a marathon in energy gels - and it was quite high and equated to about 14mpg iirc.
BoRED S2upid said:
You can’t argue with these people. Next he will stick £10,000 of solar panels on his roof and charge his leaf through those hey presto free travel!
Actually it's pretty hilarious you say that.....because he has!! He was arguing his Leaf cost 0.13p/mile.....I said that is impossible, then he said about the solar panels on his house.....Nah no chance.
I own both. Well 1 leaf and 2 bikes.
I half drive half cycle to work. Work wise I work between sites and there is no parking so I use my bike.
Bike cost £325 in March 17. Ive done 4500 miles on that one. It’s cost me £140 in tyres, brakes and a new headset.
I’ve cycled for 11 years now so managed to build up clothes, waterproofs, lights, shoes, pedals etc. I’d hazard a guess at spending £1k on clothing etc.
Bikes, Ive had 5 total cost £2800.
So what’s that £380 a year cycling ?
My leaf insurance is £400 alone. I do 6 to 7000 miles per annum. MOT and service is £200 a year. Electric well it does 4 miles per KW @ 15p per KW.
If I had to drive and park at work i’ll cost £8 per day in parking fees. Bike parking Free.
I own both. Well 1 leaf and 2 bikes.
I half drive half cycle to work. Work wise I work between sites and there is no parking so I use my bike.
Bike cost £325 in March 17. Ive done 4500 miles on that one. It’s cost me £140 in tyres, brakes and a new headset.
I’ve cycled for 11 years now so managed to build up clothes, waterproofs, lights, shoes, pedals etc. I’d hazard a guess at spending £1k on clothing etc.
Bikes, Ive had 5 total cost £2800.
So what’s that £380 a year cycling ?
My leaf insurance is £400 alone. I do 6 to 7000 miles per annum. MOT and service is £200 a year. Electric well it does 4 miles per KW @ 15p per KW.
If I had to drive and park at work i’ll cost £8 per day in parking fees. Bike parking Free.
Edited by Downward on Tuesday 29th October 21:35
BoRED S2upid said:
You can’t argue with these people. Next he will stick £10,000 of solar panels on his roof and charge his leaf through those hey presto free travel!
What about if you only eat vegetables you've grown in your garden? Free cycling fuel. (Sarcastic remark, supporting the point you make.)louiebaby said:
BoRED S2upid said:
You can’t argue with these people. Next he will stick £10,000 of solar panels on his roof and charge his leaf through those hey presto free travel!
What about if you only eat vegetables you've grown in your garden? Free cycling fuel. (Sarcastic remark, supporting the point you make.)Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff