Nissan Leaf cheaper to run than a bike....Really?

Nissan Leaf cheaper to run than a bike....Really?

Author
Discussion

chris4652009

1,295 posts

32 months

Wednesday 30th October
quotequote all
Is he a friend or a colleague ?

E65Ross

Original Poster:

23,634 posts

160 months

Wednesday 30th October
quotequote all
chris4652009 said:
Is he a friend or a colleague ?
Colleague

austinsmirk

3,617 posts

71 months

Monday 4th November
quotequote all
have some proper data.

the wife's leaf costs

£75 PA for a service
no road tax
no mot
£350 insurance
£223 in electric to charge it, to drive 8000 miles in 12 mths

I don't cycle 8000 miles PA- but this year I've spent about that much on repairs/service/parts/stuff I really just need on my road bike (tyres/new lights) and my mtb- chain, rear cassette, two new chain rings, 2 x full new hydraulic braking systems, new set of spd pedals (basically I've just totally worn it out with use) . ideally front forks want a service as the handle bar lock out button has stopped working- but all bike shops seem to want £200 to even look at it. robbing gits.

but over the lifetime of those 2 bikes, its clearly more expensive to run a car, even an electric one.

IJWS15

204 posts

33 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
When I started work may years ago I commuted on a bike, initially approx 4000 miles a year.

The advice was to forget all these fancy derailleur road bikes, they are too expensive, too unreliable and take too much maintenance. I ran a Raleigh Hercules with a 3 speed hub and dynamo lights.

Front tyre every 3-4 years, rear tyre every 2 years (less than a fiver each), occasional drop of oil for the hub, apart from a spare inner tube and 3 or 4 replacement spokes (a few coppers) sod all else. It might have been washed once a year and I don't recall changing the brake pads.

Was it reliable . . . . . 12 years later the 3 speed hub got an overhaul (I know I shouldn't have used 3 in 1 but it did last 12 years and about 30,000 miles).

It is still in my father's garage and at nearly 40 years old it still runs (Anyone for a 40 year old Leaf?), it must be valuable by now . . . . .

Even inflating the costs from 1980s values it still won't be anywhere near the cost of running a Leaf. It also kept me fit.

The OPs colleague is comparing the cost of an entry level electric car, which most of us wouldn't be seen dead in, with the cost of a high end bike. The bikes most posters mention should be compared to a Mclaren or porsche hybrid rather than a Leaf.

BoRED S2upid

15,294 posts

188 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
IJWS15 said:
When I started work may years ago I commuted on a bike, initially approx 4000 miles a year.

The advice was to forget all these fancy derailleur road bikes, they are too expensive, too unreliable and take too much maintenance. I ran a Raleigh Hercules with a 3 speed hub and dynamo lights.

Front tyre every 3-4 years, rear tyre every 2 years (less than a fiver each), occasional drop of oil for the hub, apart from a spare inner tube and 3 or 4 replacement spokes (a few coppers) sod all else. It might have been washed once a year and I don't recall changing the brake pads.

Was it reliable . . . . . 12 years later the 3 speed hub got an overhaul (I know I shouldn't have used 3 in 1 but it did last 12 years and about 30,000 miles).

It is still in my father's garage and at nearly 40 years old it still runs (Anyone for a 40 year old Leaf?), it must be valuable by now . . . . .

Even inflating the costs from 1980s values it still won't be anywhere near the cost of running a Leaf. It also kept me fit.

The OPs colleague is comparing the cost of an entry level electric car, which most of us wouldn't be seen dead in, with the cost of a high end bike. The bikes most posters mention should be compared to a Mclaren or porsche hybrid rather than a Leaf.
Very true about comparing like for like. Look at your typical deliveroo bike. Normally an old racer cost £100 converted to single speed and the hardest wearing tyres out there far cheaper than even the insurance costs on a car with zero depreciation.

joeheavyslow

179 posts

153 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
The food argument is nonsense to me anyway. I've been losing weight this year by cycling (15kg and counting). I can happily do a three hour ride with no food.

There's your real money saving tip. Start as a fat knacker and the mileage is free.

bakerstreet

4,239 posts

113 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
joeheavyslow said:
The food argument is nonsense to me anyway. I've been losing weight this year by cycling (15kg and counting). I can happily do a three hour ride with no food.

There's your real money saving tip. Start as a fat knacker and the mileage is free.
Whilst you can do the ride, I can't imagine many coaches would advise riding for three hours with no fuel or food.

TobyLerone

982 posts

92 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
So, aligned with most of the posters here, I'd suggest a Leaf is price equivalent to a low end Boardman, or like.

They're cheap and pretty tough, and don't cost the earth to maintain (assuming mud guards etc).

So, really, a £700 bicycle is a year (maybe two) of cycling, with little more expected expense than chain lube and a few tubes.

Cheaper still, if we're buying second hand - £200 for a nice Singlespeed from eBay or £400 for a nice hub gear bike from eBay.

What I haven't read, however, is the fitness benefits, and mental benefit from cycling.

For me, I need to cycle. I love it. Even when it's wet and cold, I like cycling. It's great for my mental health, as it is for my fitness.

And I can't see how an EV can provide the same mental health and physical fitness benefits a bicycle can.

As for the time saving - if I cycle, I don't need to go for a run, or do any other kind of cardiovascular type fitness.

Some Gump

11,144 posts

134 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
@ toby,

My 2015 GT GTR1 road bike cost me 550 quid new.
I've done 4k miles on it, and bought:
2 chains (16 quid)
1 cassette (20 quid)
1 set of pads (30 quid because I got swissstops)
1 set of bearings for the wheels (25 quid)
1 BB30 bottom bracket (trying to eliminate a creak that was caused elsewhere). (20 quid)

Ok I fitted it all myself so lets add 25 quid for tools..

So less than 120 quid running costs in the first 4k miles and I don't expect it to need anything exceptional in the next 2k+ either. It was my only bike and then became the winter bike - so far from a summer queen. It's also the bike I set my PB on the local club 10 time trials on, it's seen everything including off road / mud tracks from time to time.

What makes you think that a similar boardman will only last 2 years?

TobyLerone

982 posts

92 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
Some Gump said:
@ toby,

My 2015 GT GTR1 road bike cost me 550 quid new.

Some stuff.......

What makes you think that a similar boardman will only last 2 years?
Mate, chill.

I think you maybe missed my point.

I was loosely demonstrating that you can purchase a brand new "lower tier" road bike and run it for a few years for the same or less than a Nissan Leaf, if you don't get any depreciation, and only pay for insurance.

£700 ish can get you a properly decent road bike now, and I'd have no issues riding one, and I'd expect a pretty good experience.

We'll exclude charging costs, and assume that you got a good deal on home charging and use solar or some other such way to reduce costs.

We'll equally exclude food prices (HA!) because personally, I'm going to work out whether or not I commute by bicycle, so that's irrelevant for me (and probably a lot of people who'd choose to bike commute).

So, if you have a Leaf for a few years and sell it at no loss - as some claim they are able - while suffering no mechanicals, then maybe you can equal the cost.

But it's not comparing apples to apples.

You can buy a FAR cheaper bike on any auction site, either as a single speed or hub geared, which has been pre modified. So then a bicycle becomes a bit less expensive.

If you buy a brand new Leaf, and run it for two years the argument that it's similar in cost is clearly untrue.

Looking at the PH classifieds, brand new Leafs (Leaves?) seem to sell for ~£36k. Two years old, if you get a really clean one, top whack seems to be ~£15k.... That's about £21k down the stter!!

If you've got a PCP or lease or something, then £300/month isn't unreasonable it seems. So... That's 3 months in a leaf, for 2 years riding a brand new bike with spares and accessories paid for...

So, to the OP - I dunno how your mate honestly claims his car is comparable to riding a bike in costs. Maybe it is, but when you're comparing like-for-like, the costs always favour a bicycle.

Edited by TobyLerone on Tuesday 19th November 23:34

BoRED S2upid

15,294 posts

188 months

Wednesday 20th November
quotequote all
TobyLerone said:
So, aligned with most of the posters here, I'd suggest a Leaf is price equivalent to a low end Boardman, or like.

They're cheap and pretty tough, and don't cost the earth to maintain (assuming mud guards etc).

So, really, a £700 bicycle is a year (maybe two) of cycling, with little more expected expense than chain lube and a few tubes.

Cheaper still, if we're buying second hand - £200 for a nice Singlespeed from eBay or £400 for a nice hub gear bike from eBay.

What I haven't read, however, is the fitness benefits, and mental benefit from cycling.

For me, I need to cycle. I love it. Even when it's wet and cold, I like cycling. It's great for my mental health, as it is for my fitness.

And I can't see how an EV can provide the same mental health and physical fitness benefits a bicycle can.

As for the time saving - if I cycle, I don't need to go for a run, or do any other kind of cardiovascular type fitness.
An EV is going to have the complete opposite effect on your mental health - range anxiety, forgetting to charge it, sat in traffic for hours on end, not being able to use the heater down to your range anxiety, running over pedestrians and damn cyclists because they can’t hear you coming, constantly having to justify yourself to petrol heads...

TobyLerone

982 posts

92 months

Wednesday 20th November
quotequote all
BoRED S2upid said:
An EV is going to have the complete opposite effect on your mental health - range anxiety, forgetting to charge it, sat in traffic for hours on end, not being able to use the heater down to your range anxiety, running over pedestrians and damn cyclists because they can’t hear you coming, constantly having to justify yourself to petrol heads...
I agree in principle, maybe.

I think exercise, for anyone, is great for your mental health.

Perhaps it's not fair to say driving an EV is bad for your mental health though. At least not any more than a regular ICE car anyway.

And I properly 'get' the attraction - great NVH, instant torque from standstill (Tesla's, for those who are uninitiated are brain scramblingly fast to NSL). Very cheap to maintain and 'fuel'. Great for shorter commutes or someone who typically doesn't drive long distances (although if you consider long range EVs with >70kWh batteries, range wouldn't be an issue for the majority of people.

Obviously it's not for everyone - if you have no drive or garage to easily charge it... you might have a bad time.

And this is a petrol head forum.... which is why I have a 4.0L V8 for my daily...

Just saying, I understand the draw of EVs, but I'd rather cycle for short journies and commutes, and take the V8 for longer drives.

ElectricSoup

6,226 posts

99 months

Wednesday 20th November
quotequote all
BoRED S2upid said:
You can’t argue with these people. Next he will stick £10,000 of solar panels on his roof and charge his leaf through those hey presto free travel!
I charge my Leaf off the solar panels which my workplace installed, at no cost to me. Hey presto, free travel! 2 years so far, used to spend £300 a month on diesel. I paid £10k for the Leaf, it's now worth about £8.5k. I've done 20,000 miles in it and only had MOT costs, servicing was built in to the price I paid for it for 3 years. No VED. £25 a month insurance (I live in a slightly crimey postcode, from which we have had a bicycle stolen in the last few years)

It transports 4 people to work/school and back every day. I expect buying and running 4 quality bicycles would have cost as much, or even more come to think of it. And it is dry and warm and the children don't get run over by Range Rovers.

I can't imagine a cheaper way to do motoring. And it's fun to drive. The acceleration for a stupid looking shopping trolley is hilarious.

I love it and can't imagine I'll ever go back.

Edited by ElectricSoup on Monday 2nd December 08:57

Berlin Mike

222 posts

145 months

Saturday 30th November
quotequote all
bakerstreet said:
joeheavyslow said:
The food argument is nonsense to me anyway. I've been losing weight this year by cycling (15kg and counting). I can happily do a three hour ride with no food.

There's your real money saving tip. Start as a fat knacker and the mileage is free.
Whilst you can do the ride, I can't imagine many coaches would advise riding for three hours with no fuel or food.
I can’t talk about training for cycling but this is a very good plan for marathon running. You really need to train running on fumes for a fast marathon. There is no blood left for digesting food, it’s all in the legs. There’s no blood left even for your brain for working out your finish time towards the end. The trouble is, at training pace you can digest food so you don’t get this training effect. My times were six or seven minutes slower before I realised this. Annoying if you’re close to the magic three hours.

Berlin Mike

222 posts

145 months

Saturday 30th November
quotequote all
Berlin Mike said:
bakerstreet said:
joeheavyslow said:
The food argument is nonsense to me anyway. I've been losing weight this year by cycling (15kg and counting). I can happily do a three hour ride with no food.

There's your real money saving tip. Start as a fat knacker and the mileage is free.
Whilst you can do the ride, I can't imagine many coaches would advise riding for three hours with no fuel or food.
I can’t talk about training for cycling but this is a very good plan for marathon running. You really need to train running on fumes for a fast marathon. There is no blood left for digesting food, it’s all in the legs. There’s no blood left even for your brain for working out your finish time towards the end. The trouble is, at training pace you can digest food so you don’t get this training effect. My times were six or seven minutes slower before I realised this. Annoying if you’re close to the magic three hours.
Sorry that was completely irrelevant.

TyrannosauRoss Lex

Original Poster:

23,634 posts

160 months

Saturday 30th November
quotequote all
Berlin Mike said:
bakerstreet said:
joeheavyslow said:
The food argument is nonsense to me anyway. I've been losing weight this year by cycling (15kg and counting). I can happily do a three hour ride with no food.

There's your real money saving tip. Start as a fat knacker and the mileage is free.
Whilst you can do the ride, I can't imagine many coaches would advise riding for three hours with no fuel or food.
I can’t talk about training for cycling but this is a very good plan for marathon running. You really need to train running on fumes for a fast marathon. There is no blood left for digesting food, it’s all in the legs. There’s no blood left even for your brain for working out your finish time towards the end. The trouble is, at training pace you can digest food so you don’t get this training effect. My times were six or seven minutes slower before I realised this. Annoying if you’re close to the magic three hours.
Some sugary drinks, especially like cyclic dextrin, is absorbed straight through the stomach, so it can be "digested" at a fairly good pace. 3 hours is still a fair chunk under your threshold pace, and so you most definitely can absorb some sugars at that. I certainly wouldn't want bars though. Speaking as a sub 3 hour runner wink