Lighter wheels (road bike)
Discussion
Tubeless is proving a mixed bag for me on my road bike, with Mavic carbon wheels and their matching UST tyres. Small holes seal fine (you can see the sealant weaping out) but I’ve lost two 50 quid tyres in under a year to potholes. Both suffered sidewall splits that were too big to seal, and couldn’t be repaired even with a patch on the inside. It could be the Mavic tyres though; I think they’re just too flimsy compared to Conti GPs and similar.
On my gravel bike and MTB it’s brilliant though, zero punctures and lovely low pressures for comfort and grip.
On my gravel bike and MTB it’s brilliant though, zero punctures and lovely low pressures for comfort and grip.
pete said:
Tubeless is proving a mixed bag for me on my road bike, with Mavic carbon wheels and their matching UST tyres. Small holes seal fine (you can see the sealant weaping out) but I’ve lost two 50 quid tyres in under a year to potholes. Both suffered sidewall splits that were too big to seal, and couldn’t be repaired even with a patch on the inside. It could be the Mavic tyres though; I think they’re just too flimsy compared to Conti GPs and similar.
On my gravel bike and MTB it’s brilliant though, zero punctures and lovely low pressures for comfort and grip.
Personally I think the difference is mtb is low pressure high volume, which suits tubeless versus road which is high pressure low volume which doesn't, particularly if youre a fat lardy bloke sat on the bike (like me)On my gravel bike and MTB it’s brilliant though, zero punctures and lovely low pressures for comfort and grip.
pete said:
Tubeless is proving a mixed bag for me on my road bike, with Mavic carbon wheels and their matching UST tyres. Small holes seal fine (you can see the sealant weaping out) but I’ve lost two 50 quid tyres in under a year to potholes. Both suffered sidewall splits that were too big to seal, and couldn’t be repaired even with a patch on the inside. It could be the Mavic tyres though; I think they’re just too flimsy compared to Conti GPs and similar.
Had GP5000 TL for a couple years now. Have had 1 similar sidewall split on a pothole that was more of a mini cliff ege. Carry superglue and electric tape for longer rides (LBS tip to limp home on dead tyre). Otherwise zero punctures in 3-5000 miles. Lots of visible filled gaps, where pressure doesn't even drop too noticeably. Been a godsend. Had 3 in <250 miles briefy running tubes again. Much prefer (very) occasional disaster to regular annoyance, and the fear of it after every bit of round riding.
Jimbo. said:
I’m not convinced myself: seems that whilst you may reduce the odds of a “normal” puncture being an inconvenience (seals itself, carry on as if nothing happened) you run the risk of turning a roadside repair into a massive inconvenience (removing/reseating tight tubeless tyres, tyre spunk everywhere, can’t use CO2 for most sealants). I’ll take a 5 minute tube change over that, personally.
I tend to agree with this. I noticed no difference when switching some Reynolds deep sections to tubeless, but I have had (probably unlucky more than the fault of any system) two split sidewalls where nothing would do the job, owing to how difficult it is to get tubeless on and off roadside, even getting a tyre boot in is really quite difficult.
The first time where I was 60 miles from home I was able to boot it and get home. The second time where I was probably 15 miles from home, I had to walk the best part of a mile to a bike shop and buy a new tyre (80 quid!). I'm sure with tube/normal tyre the same thing would have happened, but just the ease of booting them due to having more slack, without the sealant all over the place etc would have made the whole thing much more pain free.
Also it is 100% worth checking out the rear stays on an old Specialized. I have an old SL4 S-Works Tarmac and it wouldn't take many of the modern wheels without rub, any of the zipp firecrest models were too wide for example.
lufbramatt said:
Obvious answer for that budget is something like a Kinlin XR31 on novatec or miche hubs with Sapim spokes, will give a strong and well-rolling semi-aero wheel that will last forever.
Worth talking to a wheelbuilder like Mark Pollard (Spokeman wheels), DCR or Malcolm at the Cycle clinic, they have access to all the same bits that people like Hunt use but are usually cheaper and can customise the build to suit your riding.
Good advice, you'll get a good wheelset built to your requirements at a decent price. Malcolm (Borg) is a bit grumpy at times, but is a definite nerd as far as his wheel builds are concerned. He'll build you a set which will suit what you need, not what makes the most profit.Worth talking to a wheelbuilder like Mark Pollard (Spokeman wheels), DCR or Malcolm at the Cycle clinic, they have access to all the same bits that people like Hunt use but are usually cheaper and can customise the build to suit your riding.
Eugh. Now I need new wheels.
I suspected they were close to safe limits, but when i dropped my bike at the shop to get some work done the mechanic took one look at the rear wheel brake track and let the air out of the tyre "just in case". And it looks like they may struggle to get me any kind of choice of wheels as an indy shop. It's taken 16,700 miles of all weather riding to wear them out, but it's finally happened.
So I've looked at getting some "same again" wheels from where I bought my bike. No Bontrager 'budget' wheels available, just posh carbon ones. So from there I found they had stock of the Shimano RS500 wheels. Not cheap at £486 for a pair, but I looked elsewhere and found Sigma had them at £350 for a set. At 1649 grams for the set they sound about on a par with the Bontrager wheels supplied with my Emonda.
With that in mind (and obviously I'll do more searching myself) does anyone have any suggestions for a decent wheelset between the 1500 to 1700 gram points for about £350...? At this price point would I be better buying off-the-peg or getting a wheelbuilder involved? I used to buy cycling magazines and they would have plenty of group tests for such things but I don't know at the moment what makes a good starting point searching for a new wheelset.
I've never needed to buy new wheels before now, as I've usually had something lying around spare or bought something second-hand. I do have a heavier set of wheel from a 10-speed bike (Ultegra hubs) that may take an 11-speed cassette to get me back on the road in the shorter term.
Edit:
Campag Zonda C17 wheelset found on Wiggle for £355 now. 1596 grams, cup and cone bearings. Look good. I just need wheels that will stay round and run for miles whilst not requiring bespoke unobtainium spokes and bearings.
I suspected they were close to safe limits, but when i dropped my bike at the shop to get some work done the mechanic took one look at the rear wheel brake track and let the air out of the tyre "just in case". And it looks like they may struggle to get me any kind of choice of wheels as an indy shop. It's taken 16,700 miles of all weather riding to wear them out, but it's finally happened.
So I've looked at getting some "same again" wheels from where I bought my bike. No Bontrager 'budget' wheels available, just posh carbon ones. So from there I found they had stock of the Shimano RS500 wheels. Not cheap at £486 for a pair, but I looked elsewhere and found Sigma had them at £350 for a set. At 1649 grams for the set they sound about on a par with the Bontrager wheels supplied with my Emonda.
With that in mind (and obviously I'll do more searching myself) does anyone have any suggestions for a decent wheelset between the 1500 to 1700 gram points for about £350...? At this price point would I be better buying off-the-peg or getting a wheelbuilder involved? I used to buy cycling magazines and they would have plenty of group tests for such things but I don't know at the moment what makes a good starting point searching for a new wheelset.
I've never needed to buy new wheels before now, as I've usually had something lying around spare or bought something second-hand. I do have a heavier set of wheel from a 10-speed bike (Ultegra hubs) that may take an 11-speed cassette to get me back on the road in the shorter term.
Edit:
Campag Zonda C17 wheelset found on Wiggle for £355 now. 1596 grams, cup and cone bearings. Look good. I just need wheels that will stay round and run for miles whilst not requiring bespoke unobtainium spokes and bearings.
Edited by yellowjack on Friday 12th March 14:45
I was very happy with my basic Ican carbons on the stolen bike https://icancycling.com/collections/road-bike-whee...
They claim to have a UK warehouse now which should remove the hassle of customs duties etc.
They claim to have a UK warehouse now which should remove the hassle of customs duties etc.
millen said:
I was very happy with my basic Ican carbons on the stolen bike https://icancycling.com/collections/road-bike-whee...
They claim to have a UK warehouse now which should remove the hassle of customs duties etc.
Interesting. I'm not keen on the idea of carbon wheels so much though. I can ask lots from my brakes and often ride on rural roads where filth on brake tracks gets to be an issue. And even the odd excursion onto byways and bridleways. Interesting to see their aluminium rimmed offering - it looks pretty low priced...They claim to have a UK warehouse now which should remove the hassle of customs duties etc.
It's a tricky one. I don't directly know anyone who's had excessive wear on carbon rims but there's many who claim to know someone who has. I've a friend who had a tube blow out on a long alpine descent on alloy rims due to heat build up.
My current good bike has Zipps. I've put 9,000 mls on it and it likely had 5,000+ from its previous keeper as it was a team bike. The rims were briefly inspected in October and they said there was no undue wear (which would be evidenced by a concave braking track).
I expect everything depends on riding style and conditions and keeping the brake blocks clean. I'm not a heavyweight and find on local roads on my own in lockdown I barely touch the brakes except on rare gnarly descents. I was on the brakes a lot more often when riding in a tight group, albeit this was normally pretty light braking to hold position.
Would be interested to hear what you decide on!
My current good bike has Zipps. I've put 9,000 mls on it and it likely had 5,000+ from its previous keeper as it was a team bike. The rims were briefly inspected in October and they said there was no undue wear (which would be evidenced by a concave braking track).
I expect everything depends on riding style and conditions and keeping the brake blocks clean. I'm not a heavyweight and find on local roads on my own in lockdown I barely touch the brakes except on rare gnarly descents. I was on the brakes a lot more often when riding in a tight group, albeit this was normally pretty light braking to hold position.
Would be interested to hear what you decide on!
millen said:
<snip>
Would be interested to hear what you decide on!
I'm going to put this here... https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/be... ...so that I can find it and refer to it while I've got PistonHeads open.
One of the issues for me was just how bad the worn rim was on the non drive side. Wear was very obviously uneven on the rear so I guess the brake caliper must have been off centre for some time. I'm kicking myself for not noticing it sooner really - if I had then I may have got a few thousand more miles out of the wheels.
These Campagnolo Zonda wheels are looking tempting right now... https://www.probikekit.co.uk/bicycle-wheels/campag... ...but I'll continue looking and would be happy to hear any first hand tales of wonder or woe about these, or any other in-budget wheels.
Apologies to the OP, by the way, for hijacking the thread...
Edited by yellowjack on Saturday 13th March 00:53
While I'm musing away to myself watching ZZ Top on BBC4, I had a thought about my ONS Covid survey vouchers. I can use them at Decathlon, and so I found these Mavic Aksium wheels... https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/aksium-700-road-bike...
Seemingly heavier than the Zondas but only by about 300 grams, or about 100 grams heavier than my old Bontrager wheels. Possibly worth a shot though? Because with my vouchers I'd hardly need to part with any cash, and there is stock at my local store too.
I might well pop in to the bike shop tomorrow when I drive up to the bakery nearby. Pick their brains, see if they can supply anything themselves, or if they have any issues with servicing/repairing any particular brands, because I don't want to find myself struggling to buy spokes or bearings down the line...
Also on the dirt cheap side of things, Decathlon's in house wheels...
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/700-aero-rear-road-w... £64.99 and 1,068 grams
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/700-aero-front-road-... £54.99 and 814 grams
Price appeals, but the weight begins to creep up toward 1900 grams. Zondas are 400 grams (ish) lighter, but £235 more. Where's the sweet spot? How diminished are the returns even at this lower end of the price scale? Or perhaps I ought to just go to bed and stop stewing on it.
Or do I go "safe" with Shimano (Ultegra) RS500s? https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-rs500-ultegra... £360 and 1640 grams. Right back to where I started too. Grrrr! The more I look the more confused I get...
Back again, to add these... https://www.cycledivision.co.uk/cero-ar30-evo-whee... ...to the list of potentials.
Seemingly heavier than the Zondas but only by about 300 grams, or about 100 grams heavier than my old Bontrager wheels. Possibly worth a shot though? Because with my vouchers I'd hardly need to part with any cash, and there is stock at my local store too.
I might well pop in to the bike shop tomorrow when I drive up to the bakery nearby. Pick their brains, see if they can supply anything themselves, or if they have any issues with servicing/repairing any particular brands, because I don't want to find myself struggling to buy spokes or bearings down the line...
Also on the dirt cheap side of things, Decathlon's in house wheels...
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/700-aero-rear-road-w... £64.99 and 1,068 grams
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/700-aero-front-road-... £54.99 and 814 grams
Price appeals, but the weight begins to creep up toward 1900 grams. Zondas are 400 grams (ish) lighter, but £235 more. Where's the sweet spot? How diminished are the returns even at this lower end of the price scale? Or perhaps I ought to just go to bed and stop stewing on it.
Or do I go "safe" with Shimano (Ultegra) RS500s? https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-rs500-ultegra... £360 and 1640 grams. Right back to where I started too. Grrrr! The more I look the more confused I get...
Back again, to add these... https://www.cycledivision.co.uk/cero-ar30-evo-whee... ...to the list of potentials.
Edited by yellowjack on Saturday 13th March 02:51
The reality is most wheelbuilders will be using one of a few rims/spokes/hubs. The components are the components but a good wheel builder probably produces the better version. Hard to find a good wheel builder, but they do exist. There’s no money in it, so ideally you want someone who does it for a hobby as you know they’ll not be taking the piss.
Failing that just buy cheapo factory sets like Aksium/Fulcrum 7’s and accept that they’ll go for a fair while and then probably need replacing after a couple of years.
The grams thing while obviously important is often the wrong thing to place emphasis on, you’ll never know where the weight is and if its all in the hub it makes no difference anyway. As ever, good tyres/tubes going to feel a lot of the difference.
Classically mavic spokes have been harder to replace, fulcrum pretty normal, bearings I think possible cheaply on both but by the time you’ve bought and got a bike shop to do it you may as well have bought a new set of wheels.
Failing that just buy cheapo factory sets like Aksium/Fulcrum 7’s and accept that they’ll go for a fair while and then probably need replacing after a couple of years.
The grams thing while obviously important is often the wrong thing to place emphasis on, you’ll never know where the weight is and if its all in the hub it makes no difference anyway. As ever, good tyres/tubes going to feel a lot of the difference.
Classically mavic spokes have been harder to replace, fulcrum pretty normal, bearings I think possible cheaply on both but by the time you’ve bought and got a bike shop to do it you may as well have bought a new set of wheels.
Edited by okgo on Saturday 13th March 09:52
A good friend of mine was pleased with a rebuild by Strada Wheels near Arundel. They have some winter-style wheels in the £300-400 range but a lot more for carbon https://www.stradawheels.co.uk/product-category/ro...
I almost approached them to rebuild my Zipp hubs but eventually bought the bearings + presses and did it myself. I can recommend Hambini for bearings supplies even if his YouTube style is not entirely pc.
I almost approached them to rebuild my Zipp hubs but eventually bought the bearings + presses and did it myself. I can recommend Hambini for bearings supplies even if his YouTube style is not entirely pc.
Thanks for the last few replies everyone. The wheels will almost certainly be "off the shelf" wheels. The rear brake track is so bad the mechanic felt it necessary to let down the tyres because the non drive side was so concave. So I need 'em quick and can't really afford to wait for a wheelbuilder to pencil me in, nor the infinite research I'd feel the need to do before selecting one.
okgo is closest to what my bike shop's mechanic said. Avoid Mavic was his advice - due to too many proprietary parts and the fact that they've dipped into administration recently. Campag Zondas were on my list but he also pointed me away from those simply due to the G3 spoke spacing - too much rim between spoke groups, and given that I work my wheels hard he was concerned that I'd find any rim damage difficult to straighten out away from a spoke group.
So, like okgo advised, I'm going to look at Fulcrum Racing 7s now. Serviceable, sensible spoke lacing, and about on a par with the Bontrager wheels which are coming off. Maybe Racing 5s if I can afford them. Aside from those, I'm not sure. I can't really go to town with the wheel budget now because I need chainrings on the front and it looks like a complete 105 chainset will be similar in price to buying two Ultegra rings. Plus headset and bottom bracket bearings. And my car insurance is due too. Not a great month for my bank balance at all...
okgo is closest to what my bike shop's mechanic said. Avoid Mavic was his advice - due to too many proprietary parts and the fact that they've dipped into administration recently. Campag Zondas were on my list but he also pointed me away from those simply due to the G3 spoke spacing - too much rim between spoke groups, and given that I work my wheels hard he was concerned that I'd find any rim damage difficult to straighten out away from a spoke group.
So, like okgo advised, I'm going to look at Fulcrum Racing 7s now. Serviceable, sensible spoke lacing, and about on a par with the Bontrager wheels which are coming off. Maybe Racing 5s if I can afford them. Aside from those, I'm not sure. I can't really go to town with the wheel budget now because I need chainrings on the front and it looks like a complete 105 chainset will be similar in price to buying two Ultegra rings. Plus headset and bottom bracket bearings. And my car insurance is due too. Not a great month for my bank balance at all...
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