Another electric bike question

[Northernboy]

I've not done so well during lockdown, and from happily doingthe Tourmalet a few years back, my fitness has dropped right off. I'm also working longer hours, and have two very young children, and it's all taken its toll.

I'm going to be communting a quite hilly thirteen miles to and from my London office soon, ad know that if I try to cycle it as I am now, it'll just not happen. Biking some of the way and getting the train is also not a great option, so I quite fancy getting a good electric bike to go in and out on.

Can anyone offer any advice on which way to go with them? I'm happy to spend a good amount, and would like something that's not Heath-Robinson and that is a genuinely good bike that happens to have electric assist, not a posh electric motor with apps and a cool name attached to something rubbish.

[RedWhiteMonkey]

There is a huge amount of options, but I suggest the two starting points are:
1. What is your budget?
2. What style of bike do you want or really need?

[Lovey1]

A couple of good options from Canyon:

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/electric-bikes/electr...

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/electric-bikes/electr...

Edited by Lovey1 on Thursday 4th March 12:55

[Northernboy]

RedWhiteMonkey said:

There is a huge amount of options, but I suggest the two starting points are:
1. What is your budget?
2. What style of bike do you want or really need?

I'm happy to go up to around £3k if needed, and although 'm most comfortable on a road bike I do think that crossing london a bit more upright is going to be helpful to stay safest, so maybe a hybrid design / gravel bike with disc brakes.

[jodypress]

Northernboy said:

RedWhiteMonkey said:

There is a huge amount of options, but I suggest the two starting points are:
1. What is your budget?
2. What style of bike do you want or really need?

I'm happy to go up to around £3k if needed, and although 'm most comfortable on a road bike I do think that crossing london a bit more upright is going to be helpful to stay safest, so maybe a hybrid design / gravel bike with disc brakes.

I've just fitted this mid drive 750w motor to my brother in law's Hybrid (A Carrera Crossfire 2 with hydraulic dics): https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07ZCTXDKK/ref...

I bought a couple more tools for him so it was easy to fit. All in was about £750. Took a month for the battery to arrive but the rest of the kit was much quicker. It was pretty straight forward to fit (lots of youtube videos out there, ut I have a bit of experience having built two road bikes from bare frames a long time ago)
So how is it to ride (I personally have a Gtech sport E-bike to fit my toddler up front on a seat and loads of ste in the two panniers on the back and the pedal assist is great). Well with a 750w motor and twist grip throttle, it's epic. The pedal assist is totally adjustable from 0-9. My bil uses it to travel all over london with loads of tools onboard as he's a handyman for a maintenance company. Has great range and good battery life.
So with a new bike at say £3-400 you're looking at just over a £1k for a pretty good e-bike.
I've seen the 1000w motor fitted to a road bike and it's mental. Here's a link to his 1500 w monster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjefSotenIU

[Northernboy]

jodypress said:

I've just fitted this mid drive 750w motor to my brother in law's Hybrid (A Carrera Crossfire 2 with hydraulic dics): https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07ZCTXDKK/ref...

I bought a couple more tools for him so it was easy to fit. All in was about £750. Took a month for the battery to arrive but the rest of the kit was much quicker. It was pretty straight forward to fit (lots of youtube videos out there, ut I have a bit of experience having built two road bikes from bare frames a long time ago)
So how is it to ride (I personally have a Gtech sport E-bike to fit my toddler up front on a seat and loads of ste in the two panniers on the back and the pedal assist is great). Well with a 750w motor and twist grip throttle, it's epic. The pedal assist is totally adjustable from 0-9. My bil uses it to travel all over london with loads of tools onboard as he's a handyman for a maintenance company. Has great range and good battery life.
So with a new bike at say £3-400 you're looking at just over a £1k for a pretty good e-bike.
I've seen the 1000w motor fitted to a road bike and it's mental. Here's a link to his 1500 w monster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjefSotenIU

Thanks, that's maybe a good idea. I've no qualms about the legality side, but is 750W necessary for an easy commute?

I know most bikes are limited to 250, and i'd expected that I'd want to find one that was able to be "unlocked" to take it up to 400-500 watts.

More is always good, but I'd rather not spend a large multiple of the price of a slightly less powerful motor if it;s not needed. I've the "good" Boardmant carbon hybrid hanging in the garage that I could fir it to.

[PushedDover]

surely something like an Orbea Hybrid?

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Electric-Bikes-UK-Dea...

Might not set your heart alight - but I bet it does what is says on the tin.

Or the cool Van Moof - https://www.vanmoof.com/en-GB/s3?color=light ?

And there was an alternate : https://electricbikereview.com/flx/baby-maker/ Babymaker

[ecs]

I've got two electric bikes - I have an electric Brompton M6L which I use for commuting duties and I've converted a Genesis Day One to electric using a Switch kit (https://www.swytchbike.com) that I use to carry my daughter around to places in a child seat on a rack. I use the Genesis for commuting sometimes too since I don't need to go on a train anymore.

Both of these are nice options, if you don't have much space then the Brompton works well and the Genesis is a bit more comfortable and has a few more gears. The downside is you'd probably need to charge the battery at work meaning you'd either need to buy a second charger or carry one with you. The Swytch kit comes in a few different sizes from Brompton to 700C.

[RedWhiteMonkey]

How's about something from www.cairncycles.com for a little under 3k.

The 700C version ( www.cairncycles.com/products/cairn-e-adventure-1-0... ) is the better option if you are mostly on road. It will take mudguards and has rack mounting points so you can carry your office stuff on the bike rather than get a sweaty back.

[Northernboy]

PushedDover said:

surely something like an Orbea Hybrid?

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Electric-Bikes-UK-Dea...

Might not set your heart alight - but I bet it does what is says on the tin.

Or the cool Van Moof - https://www.vanmoof.com/en-GB/s3?color=light ?

And there was an alternate : https://electricbikereview.com/flx/baby-maker/ Babymaker

That Orbe alooks very nice.

I've just been browsing the Ribble electric hybrids too, which also look very good.

I think that I shoudl wait until their shops re-open and go in and give one try.

[stargazer30]

The problem I see here is the "I'm most comfy on a road bike" statement.

eBike's are limited to 15mph and for a roadie that's a real pain as typically roadies are between 10 to 20 mph. Above the cut off its just a heavy bike. Orbea and the like have tried to mitigate this by making the bike as light as possible which ends up with a ebike with a small battery and limited range unless you're doing most the work. They are a bit pointless and expensive to boot.

You can of course buy a regular ebike with a decent 15ah battery but that will most likely be a mtb or hybrid with flat bars.

I think your best bet is get a regular gravel bike as it will have drop bars but a sturdy frame and wider tyres to support the extra weight. Then add a hub kit and de-restrict it. A 250w 36v road legal kit can be derestricted and will hit 20mph. If you want to go faster you are into 48v 500w kits but they are illegal.

As lovely as the bafang mid drive kits are that have been mentioned, I'd stick with a hub. Mid drives do like to eat gears and chains and for your usage they don't add value, assuming you're not going on steep off road stuff where you need the extra torque and control of the mid drive. Hub kits are pretty much fit and forget and are ideal for commuters. They are forgiving and allow you to change gear anytime you like, a mid drive can snap a chain if you get it wrong.

[TheBinarySheep]

stargazer30 said:

The problem I see here is the "I'm most comfy on a road bike" statement.

eBike's are limited to 15mph and for a roadie that's a real pain as typically roadies are between 10 to 20 mph. Above the cut off its just a heavy bike. Orbea and the like have tried to mitigate this by making the bike as light as possible which ends up with a ebike with a small battery and limited range unless you're doing most the work. They are a bit pointless and expensive to boot.

You can of course buy a regular ebike with a decent 15ah battery but that will most likely be a mtb or hybrid with flat bars.

I think your best bet is get a regular gravel bike as it will have drop bars but a sturdy frame and wider tyres to support the extra weight. Then add a hub kit and de-restrict it. A 250w 36v road legal kit can be derestricted and will hit 20mph. If you want to go faster you are into 48v 500w kits but they are illegal.

As lovely as the bafang mid drive kits are that have been mentioned, I'd stick with a hub. Mid drives do like to eat gears and chains and for your usage they don't add value, assuming you're not going on steep off road stuff where you need the extra torque and control of the mid drive. Hub kits are pretty much fit and forget and are ideal for commuters. They are forgiving and allow you to change gear anytime you like, a mid drive can snap a chain if you get it wrong.

This is a good point.

I recently purchased a Cube EMTB. I get no assist at all apart from when initially accelerating or going up hill. The rest of the time I've over the assistance limit and it's all me doing to work to carry me and the extra 10kg of weight from battery/motor etc. There are even times where I'm over the limit going up hill as well. On most trails I don't notice it, but when I'm on the road, I find that 90% of the time I'm unassisted.

The biggest difference for me is, when I used to cycle on a normal bike, I'd think about my route and usually take the one with the least hills, but now, with an e-bike, I don't care because I know the bike will take care of the difficult hills for me.

You can buy 'tuning boxes' that remove the assistance limit, but they're expensive for what they do.

[jodypress]

stargazer30 said:

The problem I see here is the "I'm most comfy on a road bike" statement.

eBike's are limited to 15mph and for a roadie that's a real pain as typically roadies are between 10 to 20 mph. Above the cut off its just a heavy bike. Orbea and the like have tried to mitigate this by making the bike as light as possible which ends up with a ebike with a small battery and limited range unless you're doing most the work. They are a bit pointless and expensive to boot.

You can of course buy a regular ebike with a decent 15ah battery but that will most likely be a mtb or hybrid with flat bars.

I think your best bet is get a regular gravel bike as it will have drop bars but a sturdy frame and wider tyres to support the extra weight. Then add a hub kit and de-restrict it. A 250w 36v road legal kit can be derestricted and will hit 20mph. If you want to go faster you are into 48v 500w kits but they are illegal.

As lovely as the bafang mid drive kits are that have been mentioned, I'd stick with a hub. Mid drives do like to eat gears and chains and for your usage they don't add value, assuming you're not going on steep off road stuff where you need the extra torque and control of the mid drive. Hub kits are pretty much fit and forget and are ideal for commuters. They are forgiving and allow you to change gear anytime you like, a mid drive can snap a chain if you get it wrong.

Some good pints there indeed. We fitted the gear sensor and that makes gear changes much smoother as it cuts out the motor.

Also they do a 500w motor

Now my nephew recently bought q secondhand Genesis bike that had a 500w rear wheel hub motor fitted.
Unfortunately 3 spokes had come off the rear wheel. What a pita to actually replace.
Took a couple of weeks for local bike shop (only place that would touch a rear wheel electric hub) to source and procur the necessary custom spokes. I rang around a lot of wheel builders and no one will touch them.

[i4got]

stargazer30 said:

eBike's are limited to 15mph and for a roadie that's a real pain as typically roadies are between 10 to 20 mph. Above the cut off its just a heavy bike. Orbea and the like have tried to mitigate this by making the bike as light as possible which ends up with a ebike with a small battery and limited range unless you're doing most the work.

Or fit a conversion kit to your bike that allows the speed to be changed.

[PushedDover]

TheBinarySheep said:

This is a good point.

I recently purchased a Cube EMTB. I get no assist at all apart from when initially accelerating or going up hill. The rest of the time I've over the assistance limit and it's all me doing to work to carry me and the extra 10kg of weight from battery/motor etc. There are even times where I'm over the limit going up hill as well. On most trails I don't notice it, but when I'm on the road, I find that 90% of the time I'm unassisted.

The biggest difference for me is, when I used to cycle on a normal bike, I'd think about my route and usually take the one with the least hills, but now, with an e-bike, I don't care because I know the bike will take care of the difficult hills for me.

You can buy 'tuning boxes' that remove the assistance limit, but they're expensive for what they do.

Agree with that. Dont care where I go now. I cruise circa 17mph so above the assistance and below the 15mph the motor kicks in and smooth passage ensues.
I did a 45km ride the other day with far more road work on the way home than planned.
no hardship. Comfortable Seating and position........

If looking for road only. - you could go Cube Kathmandu stuff :
https://www.cube.eu/en/2021/e-bikes/city-tour/on-r...

Again, wont set your heart alight - but does what it says on the tin and would be a good commuter shed.



ETA : " thirteen miles to and from my London office soon, " - I'd be looking for something exactluy like that so it can be ridden in comfort, and safely without lycra-ing up etc.

[okgo]

If you've ridden up french cols before, do you really think you won't get in good shape fairly quickly by just getting on with it and doing it on your existing bike?

I don't know where you live but I've ridden out of London in every direction and the worst of it is surely less than 5 minutes long (Crystal Palace/shooters hill/whatever the hill to Highgate are the only notable things I can think of) and if you live up a hill you'll get the benefit one way anyway?

If you really think otherwise then presumably you'll want to go for the value brands with that budget, Canyon a good call generally.

Edited by okgo on Thursday 4th March 17:43

[jodypress]

okgo said:

If you've ridden up french cols before, do you really think you won't get in good shape fairly quickly by just getting on with it and doing it on your existing bike?

I don't know where you live but I've ridden out of London in every direction and the worst of it is surely less than 5 minutes long (Crystal Palace/shooters hill/whatever the hill to Highgate are the only notable things I can think of) and if you live up a hill you'll get the benefit one way anyway?

If you really think otherwise then presumably you'll want to go for the value brands with that budget, Canyon a good call generally.

Edited by okgo on Thursday 4th March 17:43

I can see where you're coming from here but I'm similar to the OP. Riden up Alpe d'Huez and Col du Galibier, done L2P and used to commute every day come rain or shine or snow (Skiiing Googles worked a treat) but now in my late forties and have a 3 year old I can totally see where OP is coming from.
Before lockdown I used my folding bike to get to London Bridge and then office or clients and my pedal assist with the family and all related ste on the panniers (including a valance bike)
Having that electric assist to start off, with me dodgy knees works wonders. Also being able to rock upto work after 13 miles and not being a sweaty fk is also good, more so for my colleagues
I still enjoy going out for a weekend ride with my mates on my road bike time permitting.

[gangzoom]

Northernboy said:

I know most bikes are limited to 250, and i'd expected that I'd want to find one that was able to be "unlocked" to take it up to 400-500 watts.

Why do you think you will need 400-500watts for a commute?

Like you I use to be on the road bike alot, but with family life weekend/evening time disappears, so using a bike to commute became a way to get some bike time in without eatting into family life.

My issue not needing/wanting a shower on the ride into work, I ended up with Boardman hybrid powered by the Fazua motor, 250watt motor + 250whr battery, its a light assistance setup compared to many eBikes but for me perfectly fine and lets me gets to work (6 miles) in any weather with hardly been out of breath, and on the way home I can smash it as hard as I like (the built in Powermeter on the bike helps).

These are my last 2 commutes into work, one was on the eBike with max assistance, carrying about 5kg of stuff in my backpack, arriving at work barely out of breath, the other on my road bike with no luggage and trying very hard to arrive covered in sweat despite the cold weather.....The eBike was quicker, and unsurprisingly 15.5mph was the slowest speed on it regardless of gradient





Last summer I put some aerobars on the hybrid and took it out on a loop I normally go out on the road bike, this is what the Strava ride segment looked like!!





My road bike is still far nicer to ride, carbon frame, 105-Ultegra running gear, Dura-Ace wheelset is much better than Halfords specials. But for the commute into/out of work, 9 times of 10 I would rather be on the eBike....I know today when I was coming home into a head wind with rain spitting, and darkness coming I really wished I had taken the eBike instead of the road bike!!

£3k will get you any number of decent hybrid/road eBike, see it as a car replacement for the commute rather a replacement for the road bike. I've had mine for just over 12 months, and its the first winter I've managed to commute to work on the bike, its going to get used ALOT over the next few years .

Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 4th March 19:41

[gangzoom]

Must not derestric the eBike.....

https://youtu.be/cjcsla7U6GM

[stargazer30]

gangzoom said:

Must not derestric the eBike.....

https://youtu.be/cjcsla7U6GM

Yeah that’s a high end e road bike with 85nm and drop bars. If you derestrict a regular style 250w emtb with a more typical 50nm you won’t get much above 20mph due to the massive power needed overcome wind resistance when not on the drops.

It only gets dodgy when people start put 1000w kits on bikes with cable brakes and stty components and are flying along at 30mph+