traction control revisited

[fred65]

trackday addict said:

Well we certainly have no plans to use it on PZ2 Graham and have never used it on PZ1 either.
Traction is going to be our biggest learning curve with the big addition of bhp and torque hence needing bigger rear axle, looking at wheel sizing etc.

Going to be a learning curve for sure.
Definitely going to sort the drivers seat out properly after speaking to Simpson as the plain carbon one is crap at dealing with tyre shake and my back is shot next day afterwards !

Is this how you run consistant 6 sec runs

[Barry B]

fred65 said:

Is this how you run consistant 6 sec runs

Tw@

[Squating Neville]

fred65 said:

trackday addict said:

Well we certainly have no plans to use it on PZ2 Graham and have never used it on PZ1 either.
Traction is going to be our biggest learning curve with the big addition of bhp and torque hence needing bigger rear axle, looking at wheel sizing etc.

Going to be a learning curve for sure.
Definitely going to sort the drivers seat out properly after speaking to Simpson as the plain carbon one is crap at dealing with tyre shake and my back is shot next day afterwards !

Is this how you run consistant 6 sec runs

Funny you should say that, I heard a fuel car tuner saying the same thing earlier on in the year, by going on the 60ft times it runs on diffrent track conditions, it seems very consistent

[Turn7]

fk me, what is it with the Drag race community that everyones so bloody keen to have a pop at someone else ?

[redvictor]

Turn7 said:

fk me, what is it with the Drag race community that everyones so bloody keen to have a pop at someone else ?

Seems like it's a disease. I suggested before about not allowing posts from people who don't put their real name in their profile.
I think this should be implimented, then everyone knows who it is having a pop at anyone on here.

[37chevy]

Fred is just a c0ck who is obviously aggrieved and jealous that John has a great car. Just ignore him.... TROLL!, maybe if he tells everyone what his gripe is about then people could take him serious.

[Barry B]

If the troll has the money to buy the car, the balls to drive it and the skill to keep it off the guardrail he'll need to grow a brain to tune it .

[Turn7]

37chevy said:

Fred is just a c0ck who is obviously aggrieved and jealous that John has a great car. Just ignore him.... TROLL!, maybe if he tells everyone what his gripe is about then people could take him serious.

Pretty much every one of his posts is antagonistic to say the least....

[Burndown]

Can any of us here prove that somebody we know is NOT doing something?

No,we can't.

We have to make a judgement on whether we trust people.

[Turn7]

Burndown said:

Can any of us here prove that somebody we know is NOT doing something?

No,we can't.

We have to make a judgement on whether we trust people.

Agreed, but theres a way of expressing ones thoughts without being deliberateley provocative.

[Burndown]

Turn7 said:

Agreed, but theres a way of expressing ones thoughts without being deliberateley provocative.

If his intention was to provoke. It worked.

[Turbobird1]

ok well for me when i have invested what i have im afraid trust isnt something im prepared to do any more than ferarri trust mclaren not to cheat,
ok were not F! but when your fighting at the top level (and pro mod is top of the pile in the door car world) winning is everything i do this to win, my ultimate goal is an FIA championship, everything i do is working toward that goal, and if /when i get beat i want to KNOW the other guy won because he was better not have to trust him, thats why we have rules and for me this needs to be policed and id sooner have a control ecu than have to trust other racers, i trust my family i trust my close personal friends.... and thats it
they weigh me at the track why wont anyone believe my car is a legal weight, they fuel check, they check blower o/d, they they piss test, they check sfi certs, when they could just trust us!!! and in the light of recent events when rules were broken its proved bloody right that everything should be tested,

im afraid that Fred whilst antagonizing has raised a valid point the point being that although we all say we dont do anything illegal why should anyone believe what we say,
Fred obviously either don't believe or giving the benefit of the doubt is playing a very good devils advocate ....(If you read this Loaring laugh no longer) sorry private joke....
hes been told "i don't use it" and has chosen to ignore that statement. so we need to be able to prove it or have it proved
lets face it talks cheap you can say what you like but without the evidence to back it up and prove what you say is fact your better off not wasting your time talking, and this is about anything not just traction control,

PS
having looked back through freds posts back earlier in the year i said on here i will win the msa championship again and fred said it will be Roger, and it was.. So i wouldnt be so quick to condemn fred as a troll as he obviously knows something we dont id say cynic rather than troll

Edited by Turbobird1 on Saturday 6th October 08:47

[Burndown]

I agree with the fact that trust alone is not any good. There has to be a way of investigating traction control usage.

Its no good just saying, so and so wouldn't cheat because they seem like a nice bloke.

Blind faith is very evident in sport because of how nationalistic it is. Why do people support people who they don't know from Adam just because they are the same nationality.

You just have to look at the overwhelming sucess of the GB Olympic team. They couldn't possibly be breaking the rules though, they are British, its the eastern Europeans and Chinese that get up to that.

[Mark13]

Burndown said:

I agree with the fact that trust alone is not any good. There has to be a way of investigating traction control usage.

You just have to look at the overwhelming sucess of the GB Olympic team. They couldn't possibly be breaking the rules though, they are British, its the eastern Europeans and Chinese that get up to that.

What are you saying then regarding Olympic events?

The real reason we did so well was because we set out to achieve and put the resources behind it in terms of funding. That got us the opportunity and the rest was just f***ing hard work, complete focus and dedication. I know some of these people and frankly any athlete who wants to win at the top level has to live a different life from the rest of us. Generally, no drinking, strict diet, a lot of sleep and punishing training. You could draw an analogy with Pro-Mod in that you can buy the kit if you have the funding but the hard work is sticking to the task of getting it to perform. You can't compete at the top level of any sport without being totally committed. Motor Racing is full of nearly men who, luck aside, did not have the committment to get to or stay at the top. Good examples being Jan Magnussen and Tommy Byrne, both outstanding F3 drivers but without the focus to get to the top of F1.

[Burndown]

So you think hard work and dedication is enough to beat hard work and doping????

Likewise you can put in as much hard graft as you like, if somebody is grafting and using traction control its difficult to top that.

A novice would not be turning up at a race meeting with a pro mod, no knowledge and then just flicking a switch and running quick.

[Mark13]

Burndown said:

So you think hard work and dedication is enough to beat hard work and doping????

Likewise you can put in as much hard graft as you like, if somebody is grafting and using traction control its difficult to top that.

A novice would not be turning up at a race meeting with a pro mod, no knowledge and then just flicking a switch and running quick.

Don't use glib comparisons (with Athletics in particular). It is really annoying when people make uninformed and ignorant comments about doping when they have not got a clue what they are talking about.

I am sure that a novice could turn up with a pro mod and run consistently with traction control but there is more to running fast I am sure. Watching the challenge Graham had with staging it is clearly a more complex set of issues.

[Big go'75]

Is it not the point that doping will make you a faster/stronger athlete but traction control won't make a car quicker. I think the point made on the Habermann thread was that it could save a run that would otherwise have been aborted. Has this changed?

[Burndown]

Mark13 said:

Don't use glib comparisons (with Athletics in particular). It is really annoying when people make uninformed and ignorant comments about doping when they have not got a clue what they are talking about.

I am sure that a novice could turn up with a pro mod and run consistently with traction control but there is more to running fast I am sure. Watching the challenge Graham had with staging it is clearly a more complex set of issues.

A novice could NOT turn up and run quick with traction control, this is my point. They couldnt get a fuel system into a car to make it idle let alone get it down the track, thus traction control is only going to help if you already know what you are doing. So the argument that some people are just really good/ hard working and its the slower guys have to cheat doesnt hold water.

As has been pointed out the TC will get you down the track, so in a Championship situation e.g you have not made a good pass in qualifying and you need 1 round win for the championship it could do the job and currently there is nothing to stop you doing that.

[trackday addict]

I'll set the scene - at home at 10.40pm pissing myself laughing at utter bks printed on here !!

Let me tell you how we get our car down the track consistently shall i ...

1. It runs a lot less bhp than a "normal pro mod" so that helps to start with
2. We dont over power the track ie/ lower boost than we run mid or last 1/3rd
3. We have a good look at the track & see how others are getting on
4. we run efi & turbos - the perfect match to be able to make last minute adjustments ie/ boost out etc
5. we have bust our balls on clutch settings, logged everything from every run & know that clutch inside and out

to many times we have stood watching both pro mod & pro stock over power the track - prime example Europeans 2011 when the start line had that dreadeded patch on it - what did we do to run 5 6's out of 6 runs - we took power out of the launch - it's not rocket science Fred & co .....

maybe you just dont like technology or alternative thinking ...

All of the above still dont guarantee success & we have had our share now & again of horrific tyre shake or blown our tyres on the start line

We had no answer to Hockenheim this year despite every change possible but thats life

Anyway i shall take your whinging as a compliment - we have worked hard, bust our balls & obviously got people talking - wait till Pro Mod going forward !!

[37chevy]

trackday addict said:

Anyway i shall take your whinging as a compliment - we have worked hard, bust our balls & obviously got people talking - wait till Pro Mod going forward !!

Nail, hit, head :-)