EP3 - does it still cut it in 2017/18?

[chrismc1977]

Same here!

Sure N/A Hondas aren’t the most torquey of engines- but certainly in the DC2 the chassis is light & the handling so sweet that it never feels tiresome to me.

B16/18, K20 & F20 are all such sweet revving engines that the (relatively) short gearing & high cruise rpm’s are by the by.

I certainly don’t feel hugely outgunned on the road & the Little B18 punches well above its weight- R32 Golf, Astra VXR & a 335d have all failed to shake me on my (admittedly well-known) work commute... :-)

[NorthernSky]

Hi there OP.

Did you know, Green Arrow is a song by Yo La Tengo. On the same album they have a song called 'Little Honda'.

Thought you might like to know, being on the Honda forum and all that. Strange coincidence. Here's a link, enjoy;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWYPkODdxI4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq4Z5uAzB7U

[aka_kerrly]

To give you some figures... to compare a EP3 to a new Fiesta & Mini because *in my opinion, the size of a EP3 makes it more comparable to a newer Fiesta an Mini than it does a new Focus or Golf.

An EP3 has a power to weight ratio of 158hp per tonne and does 0-100mph in 16.0sec , 30-70mph 6.0sec

a 2014 Fiesta ST185 154hp per tonne 0-100mph in 17sec 30-70mph 6.2sec
a 2015 Mini Cooper S 150hp per tonne 0-100mph in 16.8 sec

The new era small turbo engines can muster some pokey 0-60mph times and if you were to do a 6th gear 30mph foot flat to the floor test the Civic would indeed be embarrassed but that's hardly relevant to someone who knows how to use a gearbox.

[chrismc1977]

For me it shows just how ahead of the times the older VTEC Hondas were...

The newest breed of small hot hatch (fiesta/mini etc) are only now starting to get close with performance figures- & all require forced induction & far greater torque figures to overcome their weight disadvantage. That’s 20years down the line in some cases...

Yes the new cars can be mapped but I still think they lack a crucial bit of driver involvement, spine-tingling noise & the joy of revving them out

[Sillyhatday]

aka_kerrly said:

To give you some figures... to compare a EP3 to a new Fiesta & Mini because *in my opinion, the size of a EP3 makes it more comparable to a newer Fiesta an Mini than it does a new Focus or Golf.

An EP3 has a power to weight ratio of 158hp per tonne and does 0-100mph in 16.0sec , 30-70mph 6.0sec

a 2014 Fiesta ST185 154hp per tonne 0-100mph in 17sec 30-70mph 6.2sec
a 2015 Mini Cooper S 150hp per tonne 0-100mph in 16.8 sec

The new era small turbo engines can muster some pokey 0-60mph times and if you were to do a 6th gear 30mph foot flat to the floor test the Civic would indeed be embarrassed but that's hardly relevant to someone who knows how to use a gearbox.

This makes the most sense. To me, these days there are three categories for performance hatches; warm hatch, hot hatch and hyper hatch. The EP3 still firmly stands its ground with those other hot hatches you mentioned, albeit without the turbo. I imagine the cost to develop that K series to that level of tune, reliably, was something nobody else was prepared to undertake.

Really, it only falls down on its features. I thought the early ones came with a tape deck. They are pretty spartan inside.

[greenarrow]

aka_kerrly said:

To give you some figures... to compare a EP3 to a new Fiesta & Mini because *in my opinion, the size of a EP3 makes it more comparable to a newer Fiesta an Mini than it does a new Focus or Golf.

An EP3 has a power to weight ratio of 158hp per tonne and does 0-100mph in 16.0sec , 30-70mph 6.0sec

a 2014 Fiesta ST185 154hp per tonne 0-100mph in 17sec 30-70mph 6.2sec
a 2015 Mini Cooper S 150hp per tonne 0-100mph in 16.8 sec

The new era small turbo engines can muster some pokey 0-60mph times and if you were to do a 6th gear 30mph foot flat to the floor test the Civic would indeed be embarrassed but that's hardly relevant to someone who knows how to use a gearbox.

..and I believe the ST makes 197BHP on its overboost function....so this makes it even more impressive that its not quite as quick out of the box as the now nearly 17 year old EP3 Civic Type R !!!

the comparison with the FN2 is interesting. This months Modern Classics mag features a buying guide on the FN2, but I think they're still too expensive for my "second hand, weekend toy" budget.......

The other point is that I find these old type Rs more my cup of tea than stuff like the new all singing and dancing turbo Civic Type R. The new car is just far too big IMO to be really usable down narrow country lanes, which used to be the natural habitat of the hot hatch. Its all about getting the quickest Nurburgring time now. In "my day", it was all about being the quickest on something like then B660 !!

[chrismc1977]

That’s the very essence of why I chose an Integra R tbh

Revvy, raw, light and a perfect B-road blaster. It also attracts many admiring glances. As a FWD N/A it’s very hard to better. Sadly (for others) a bit niche nowadays to be a bargain buy

The EP3 represents good value. The K20 is very tweakable & if you can run to a slip diff as well then very capable indeed.

Alternatively an Accord R is something of a Q car. It feels more ITR than CTR to drive. Great steering & the H22 responds well to breathing mods & a shorter fd....

[greenarrow]

chrismc1977 said:

That’s the very essence of why I chose an Integra R tbh

Revvy, raw, light and a perfect B-road blaster. It also attracts many admiring glances. As a FWD N/A it’s very hard to better. Sadly (for others) a bit niche nowadays to be a bargain buy

The EP3 represents good value. The K20 is very tweakable & if you can run to a slip diff as well then very capable indeed.

Alternatively an Accord R is something of a Q car. It feels more ITR than CTR to drive. Great steering & the H22 responds well to breathing mods & a shorter fd....

Have you read Sam Smith's piece in this months issue of Car? He's an ITR owner and basically says that whilst he loves the new Civic Type R but also finds it reprehensible compared with his Integra which he loves. Its 500 pounds heavier too!

Sadly for me I've missed the boat on the ITR. Cheapest one on Autotrader currently is £5K with some being advertised for £10K. Its a pity as its absolutely my sort of car. But you can get an EP3 for a little over 2K and that surely is a bargain for what it offers.....

[aka_kerrly]

greenarrow said:

But you can get an EP3 for a little over 2K and that surely is a bargain for what it offers.....

You can indeed, I just bought this a few hours ago

[Butter Face]

I remember when mine looked like that!!

Has it got leather?

[Alpinestars]

aka_kerrly said:

greenarrow said:

But you can get an EP3 for a little over 2K and that surely is a bargain for what it offers.....

You can indeed, I just bought this a few hours ago

My first Honda hot hatch, purchased when they first came out.

[aka_kerrly]

Butter Face said:

I remember when mine looked like that!!

Has it got leather?

I also remember when yours looked like that and tbh part of the reason I do like a pre-facelift red. My second choice was silver.

Yes it has leather + fogs & AC.

I was a little worried the seats would be slippery beasts like those I had in a Golf GTI but these Civic ones are spot on - i think i must just be the "right" shape to fit them well.

[Butter Face]

Nice options. Mine had fogs and AC but the fogs are long gone.

How’s the colour? I still love MR and it’s the colour I always wanted for an EP3. Mine really does need a respray which I’d love to get done soon!!

[aka_kerrly]

It does have a hints of Milano Pink so a session with the DA is required.

First priorities are sorting the rattling heat shield an wobbly back box as they are a tad irritating!

[Butter Face]

A DA wont make much difference unfortunately, the EP3 has a lovely clear lacquer over the red, so you get some nice pink paint with a nice hard lacquer over it which basically renders the pink untouchable.

I had mine professionally detailed and machine polished and it made it more shiny, but still ok k

[aka_kerrly]

Fortunately I didn't really buy it with the intention of making it a show winner, so long as its reasonably tidy and keeps me entertained I'm happy!!

[greenarrow]

aka_kerrly said:

greenarrow said:

But you can get an EP3 for a little over 2K and that surely is a bargain for what it offers.....

You can indeed, I just bought this a few hours ago

lovely looking car!

[aka_kerrly]

greenarrow said:

features a buying guide on the FN2, but I think they're still too expensive for my "second hand, weekend toy" budget.......

The other point is that I find these old type Rs more my cup of tea than stuff like the new all singing and dancing turbo Civic Type R. The new car is just far too big IMO to be really usable down narrow country lanes,

Completely agree, I also considered spending nearly double what my ep3 cost and going FN2 (im also an Modern Classic mag fan) but I was underwhelmed by it as Honda have gone too far down the insulation/creature comforts route which isn't what a Type R is all about.

I dare say at this point I am VERY happy with my new toy!

[Alpinestars]

aka_kerrly said:

greenarrow said:

features a buying guide on the FN2, but I think they're still too expensive for my "second hand, weekend toy" budget.......

The other point is that I find these old type Rs more my cup of tea than stuff like the new all singing and dancing turbo Civic Type R. The new car is just far too big IMO to be really usable down narrow country lanes,

Completely agree, I also considered spending nearly double what my ep3 cost and going FN2 (im also an Modern Classic mag fan) but I was underwhelmed by it as Honda have gone too far down the insulation/creature comforts route which isn't what a Type R is all about.

I dare say at this point I am VERY happy with my new toy!

Drove this for the first time in a while. Raw is not the word!

https://youtu.be/VIKnEU6zgbw

[egor110]

aka_kerrly said:

greenarrow said:

features a buying guide on the FN2, but I think they're still too expensive for my "second hand, weekend toy" budget.......

The other point is that I find these old type Rs more my cup of tea than stuff like the new all singing and dancing turbo Civic Type R. The new car is just far too big IMO to be really usable down narrow country lanes,

Completely agree, I also considered spending nearly double what my ep3 cost and going FN2 (im also an Modern Classic mag fan) but I was underwhelmed by it as Honda have gone too far down the insulation/creature comforts route which isn't what a Type R is all about.

I dare say at this point I am VERY happy with my new toy!

Looks nice .

Now it's time to re learn driving , you haven't got torque so rev the nuts off it

Trouble is people with turbos or big engines with low down grunt get into these r types , fast clios and think there slow because they drive them the same as there turbo cars , there not slow you just have to actually use the whole rev range .