Integra DC2 (UKDM) - what to look for?
Discussion
I'm on the look out for a UK dealer model DC2 in championship white - so if anyone know's of one please let me know!
I've read all the buyers guide, including the PH ones, but what I'd like is input from actual owners, and those who have repaired the common problems; arch rust, synchromesh issues, seat bolsters etc.
Most of the few that appear have some form of rust around the rear arches, if you want one you have to accept this as far as I can tell, so are there any recommended specialists for repair, and any ideas on cost (piece of string)? Likewise synchromesh and seat bolster repair.
What other issues are common to these, I'm keen to go in with my eyes open!?
Cheers
I've read all the buyers guide, including the PH ones, but what I'd like is input from actual owners, and those who have repaired the common problems; arch rust, synchromesh issues, seat bolsters etc.
Most of the few that appear have some form of rust around the rear arches, if you want one you have to accept this as far as I can tell, so are there any recommended specialists for repair, and any ideas on cost (piece of string)? Likewise synchromesh and seat bolster repair.
What other issues are common to these, I'm keen to go in with my eyes open!?
Cheers
Rust is obviously the biggest problem, at this age it's not just the arches you need to keep an eye on either, check everywhere! They rust from the inside out, so if you see a tiny surface bubble then the inner arch is probably rusted through. It cost me £1000 to get my arches sorted in 2012ish, probably costs even more now though. If you pop the rear speakers out you can stick a phone camera in to take a picture of the inner arch and see if it's rusted, not sure many sellers will let you though?
Synchro problems will be obvious on the test drive, input shaft bearings go too, check for a dry bearing noise with clutch up. My gearbox cost something like £400 to get rebuilt with new bearings/synchros, can't remember if that included the shafts?
Seat bolsters you can do yourself, capital seating sell replacement foam and fabric. I did my DC5 seats in an afternoon, it's £55ish per bolster and £70 for the fabric cover.
If you're in the south then I highly recommend TGM Sport in Fleet for everything, they know these cars inside out.
Rear light seals go, check for water in the boot. Rear calipers seize as well, cheap to replace though.
Standard bushes and dampers will be way past their best by now, worth paying the extra for a car that's had these sorted. Careful with aftermarket coilovers and polybushes though, they can ruin the sweet handling of the standard car.
Not much else to mention, they are pretty cheap to run but most need work, a rust free car is worth all the extra money.
Synchro problems will be obvious on the test drive, input shaft bearings go too, check for a dry bearing noise with clutch up. My gearbox cost something like £400 to get rebuilt with new bearings/synchros, can't remember if that included the shafts?
Seat bolsters you can do yourself, capital seating sell replacement foam and fabric. I did my DC5 seats in an afternoon, it's £55ish per bolster and £70 for the fabric cover.
If you're in the south then I highly recommend TGM Sport in Fleet for everything, they know these cars inside out.
Rear light seals go, check for water in the boot. Rear calipers seize as well, cheap to replace though.
Standard bushes and dampers will be way past their best by now, worth paying the extra for a car that's had these sorted. Careful with aftermarket coilovers and polybushes though, they can ruin the sweet handling of the standard car.
Not much else to mention, they are pretty cheap to run but most need work, a rust free car is worth all the extra money.
Paul671 said:
Rust is obviously the biggest problem, at this age it's not just the arches you need to keep an eye on either, check everywhere! They rust from the inside out, so if you see a tiny surface bubble then the inner arch is probably rusted through. It cost me £1000 to get my arches sorted in 2012ish, probably costs even more now though. If you pop the rear speakers out you can stick a phone camera in to take a picture of the inner arch and see if it's rusted, not sure many sellers will let you though?
Synchro problems will be obvious on the test drive, input shaft bearings go too, check for a dry bearing noise with clutch up. My gearbox cost something like £400 to get rebuilt with new bearings/synchros, can't remember if that included the shafts?
Seat bolsters you can do yourself, capital seating sell replacement foam and fabric. I did my DC5 seats in an afternoon, it's £55ish per bolster and £70 for the fabric cover.
If you're in the south then I highly recommend TGM Sport in Fleet for everything, they know these cars inside out.
Rear light seals go, check for water in the boot. Rear calipers seize as well, cheap to replace though.
Standard bushes and dampers will be way past their best by now, worth paying the extra for a car that's had these sorted. Careful with aftermarket coilovers and polybushes though, they can ruin the sweet handling of the standard car.
Not much else to mention, they are pretty cheap to run but most need work, a rust free car is worth all the extra money.
Thanks for the reply, really appreciated. Great to hear from an actual owner as oppose to simply buyers guide/the usual PH BS!Synchro problems will be obvious on the test drive, input shaft bearings go too, check for a dry bearing noise with clutch up. My gearbox cost something like £400 to get rebuilt with new bearings/synchros, can't remember if that included the shafts?
Seat bolsters you can do yourself, capital seating sell replacement foam and fabric. I did my DC5 seats in an afternoon, it's £55ish per bolster and £70 for the fabric cover.
If you're in the south then I highly recommend TGM Sport in Fleet for everything, they know these cars inside out.
Rear light seals go, check for water in the boot. Rear calipers seize as well, cheap to replace though.
Standard bushes and dampers will be way past their best by now, worth paying the extra for a car that's had these sorted. Careful with aftermarket coilovers and polybushes though, they can ruin the sweet handling of the standard car.
Not much else to mention, they are pretty cheap to run but most need work, a rust free car is worth all the extra money.
Good to know approx costs on the arches, was that for both sides and in the usual spot near the lower front, as well as the top rear where they meet the rear bumper, I've seen a few where they go here too?
I'd read you could see from the inside but wasn't sure how you removed the inner linings of the car, didn't realise it was just the speakers that needed moving, though as you say how many owners would allow you to remove it.
I'd previously given in when three years ago I saws a genuine 38k miler that had had one owner for 16 years, it was perfect, except on both arches there were tiny bubbles!
Re bushing my intention was to replace with OE, I understand polys could also ruin the original greatness, is that true?
Cheers
acme said:
I'd read you could see from the inside but wasn't sure how you removed the inner linings of the car, didn't realise it was just the speakers that needed moving, though as you say how many owners would allow you to remove it.
Cheers
If I were selling a DC2 (again..). I'd be fully expecting the purchaser to be wanting a look at the inner arches.. I took photos myself but they're not difficult to get at/into. Walk away if not.Cheers
acme said:
Good to know approx costs on the arches, was that for both sides and in the usual spot near the lower front, as well as the top rear where they meet the rear bumper, I've seen a few where they go here too?
That was both sides, lower front and drivers side was gone at the back of the arch too. There's a small drainage gap for the inner arch, if it's not already rusted you can block it up and get lot's of por15, waxoyl or similar in there to slow the corrosion.
Mine was rust free other than arches. It had been sorn every winter and was very clean underneath but rear arch rust is just kind of inevitable with the design of these cars.
I wouldn't have personally polybushed my car, the compliance of the bushes is part of the reason it handles so well. The rear control arm bushes especially. Coilovers too, unless it's a track car the standard dampers or a quality alternative are perfect.
One other thing, the OEM exhaust is the main difference (Mechanically) between UK & JDM models. A JDM exhaust, particularly the later 98+ version is an excellent upgrade, the back box is the same but the B-pipe and manifold are very weedy on the UK cars. If you go this route just be mindful that emissions will be marginal come MOT time with a JDM cat, still highly recommend it though.
acme said:
Re bushing my intention was to replace with OE, I understand polys could also ruin the original greatness, is that true?
For a road car I would use rubber only. Spoon/Mugen do uprated rubber bushes, The spoon ones increase the stiffness from 65a to 85a, Mugen is slightly more mild.
Have had 3 import DC2's in the family over the years, great cars and the former posts match my advice, Part of the reason I would always go for
an import model is due to condition/lack of rust. The UK cars have a certain charm too though.
Unless the engine mounts have been changed, This will be one of the first things you'll need to do, Mugen/OEM Honda are the ones to go for to retain normal NVH levels, And rear trail arm bushes as well, Again avoid poly especially here.
Paul671 said:
That was both sides, lower front and drivers side was gone at the back of the arch too.
There's a small drainage gap for the inner arch, if it's not already rusted you can block it up and get lot's of por15, waxoyl or similar in there to slow the corrosion.
Mine was rust free other than arches. It had been sorn every winter and was very clean underneath but rear arch rust is just kind of inevitable with the design of these cars.
I wouldn't have personally polybushed my car, the compliance of the bushes is part of the reason it handles so well. The rear control arm bushes especially. Coilovers too, unless it's a track car the standard dampers or a quality alternative are perfect.
One other thing, the OEM exhaust is the main difference (Mechanically) between UK & JDM models. A JDM exhaust, particularly the later 98+ version is an excellent upgrade, the back box is the same but the B-pipe and manifold are very weedy on the UK cars. If you go this route just be mindful that emissions will be marginal come MOT time with a JDM cat, still highly recommend it though.
Many thanks again. That's the conclusion I've come to, and as a result if I really want one need to plan on doing arch rust sooner rather than later, having a good idea of cost helps greatly.There's a small drainage gap for the inner arch, if it's not already rusted you can block it up and get lot's of por15, waxoyl or similar in there to slow the corrosion.
Mine was rust free other than arches. It had been sorn every winter and was very clean underneath but rear arch rust is just kind of inevitable with the design of these cars.
I wouldn't have personally polybushed my car, the compliance of the bushes is part of the reason it handles so well. The rear control arm bushes especially. Coilovers too, unless it's a track car the standard dampers or a quality alternative are perfect.
One other thing, the OEM exhaust is the main difference (Mechanically) between UK & JDM models. A JDM exhaust, particularly the later 98+ version is an excellent upgrade, the back box is the same but the B-pipe and manifold are very weedy on the UK cars. If you go this route just be mindful that emissions will be marginal come MOT time with a JDM cat, still highly recommend it though.
Sounds like all the advice is keep the suspension standard, I'm not looking to mod the car, which is why I'm having difficulty finding a standard one - certainly in white!
Didn't realise that was the main difference, I assume that's why the JDM's are quoted at 200bhp I think, as oppose to 187 on the UK cars.
Cheers
krismccloy said:
For a road car I would use rubber only.
Spoon/Mugen do uprated rubber bushes, The spoon ones increase the stiffness from 65a to 85a, Mugen is slightly more mild.
Have had 3 import DC2's in the family over the years, great cars and the former posts match my advice, Part of the reason I would always go for
an import model is due to condition/lack of rust. The UK cars have a certain charm too though.
Unless the engine mounts have been changed, This will be one of the first things you'll need to do, Mugen/OEM Honda are the ones to go for to retain normal NVH levels, And rear trail arm bushes as well, Again avoid poly especially here.
Certainly seems all advice is stick with OE.Spoon/Mugen do uprated rubber bushes, The spoon ones increase the stiffness from 65a to 85a, Mugen is slightly more mild.
Have had 3 import DC2's in the family over the years, great cars and the former posts match my advice, Part of the reason I would always go for
an import model is due to condition/lack of rust. The UK cars have a certain charm too though.
Unless the engine mounts have been changed, This will be one of the first things you'll need to do, Mugen/OEM Honda are the ones to go for to retain normal NVH levels, And rear trail arm bushes as well, Again avoid poly especially here.
My preference is certainly for a UKDM, I've just always preferred UK cars and do prefer the look of the UKDM, however finding one is proving very hard indeed.
Other than GT Torque, given you've had 3, can you recommend anyone, or indeed advise who to avoid?
It'll be a road car, so reasonable NVH levels, or at least akin to what it came out of the factory with will be key - though I appreciate nobody buys an ITR for peace and quiet!
nitrodave said:
Check for blue smoke out the exhaust when it's on vtec. After lots of abuse they can start to burn oil
Any ideas what sort of amounts they do burn, presumably like most older cars there's an acceptable amount?Talking to the owner of one I missed out on recently he said on track it could use half a litre or so, which seemed excessive to me?
Can only echo what has been said already. I imported (via Torque GT) in 2017. Grade 4 with zero rust. Lovely car and one of my better life choices. Going by the history the car was well looked after and most perishable items had been replaced not long ago.
I've replaced a few things (bushes etc) and used OEM everytime - except the gearstick bushing which feels a lot more positive with a poly bush. However, I would not poly bush anything else.
My only worry just now is finding new dampers (it doesn't need them, just planning ahead). It would be a shame to ruin the ride and forums etc are a minefield of personal opinion of who is best.
I've replaced a few things (bushes etc) and used OEM everytime - except the gearstick bushing which feels a lot more positive with a poly bush. However, I would not poly bush anything else.
My only worry just now is finding new dampers (it doesn't need them, just planning ahead). It would be a shame to ruin the ride and forums etc are a minefield of personal opinion of who is best.
As someone who's got a JDM can you advise of what the differences are as compared to the UKDM - is it just the freer flowing exhaust hence the 12 or so extra BHP?
How does the condition element work of an import, as this may be something I need to look into as clearly finding a decent and un modded UKDM is going to be very difficult?
Thanks
How does the condition element work of an import, as this may be something I need to look into as clearly finding a decent and un modded UKDM is going to be very difficult?
Thanks
I would point you in the direction of itr-dc2.com for facts comparing the two models for fear I would give you duff info. There is a dedicated post on their resource page which compares 96, 98 and UK. You will need to register however it's worth waiting the few days it takes for the admin to set you up.
The grading system is pretty straight forward and there is plenty resource online which explains it well. 5 I think is a brand new car. 4.5 is exceptionally good condition. 4 is very good and so on...R and X can be used to show damage repaired/repainted (like the UK Cat d/c rating) Interior is marked by letters, A being the best and mint condition, B minor marks, C minor marks and bolster wear.
A good importer will take the time to explain all this to you however the majority of info is online but you just need to be sure it's a reliable source.
Can't recommend Torque highly enough btw.
The grading system is pretty straight forward and there is plenty resource online which explains it well. 5 I think is a brand new car. 4.5 is exceptionally good condition. 4 is very good and so on...R and X can be used to show damage repaired/repainted (like the UK Cat d/c rating) Interior is marked by letters, A being the best and mint condition, B minor marks, C minor marks and bolster wear.
A good importer will take the time to explain all this to you however the majority of info is online but you just need to be sure it's a reliable source.
Can't recommend Torque highly enough btw.
acme said:
As someone who's got a JDM can you advise of what the differences are as compared to the UKDM - is it just the freer flowing exhaust hence the 12 or so extra BHP?
- 187 vs 197bhp is a little misleading, as the 197 is on Japanese 100RON fuel. But the JDM '98 exhaust comments above by Paul are spot-on, they are better.- JDM '98 has 16" rims, with re-tuned dampers (& possibly springs...not 100% sure) to compensate.
- JDM '96 as 15" rims with 4-stud hubs and smaller diameter front discs. For that reason alone I'd avoid a '96.
- JDM '98 Type-Rx came with folding mirrors, rear tints (& smth else I think), and could be had in yellow.
- USDM buyers got a raw deal in many senses, but you won't see one over here.
There's also some other detail bits and pieces between the cars (as above, join the owners forum, or what's left of it), but the above are the key differences.
For me the UKDM vs JDM debate isn't as clear-cut. Yes a '98 IS a slightly better car than a UKDM...but we're really talking fractions, not wholesale. And yes, a FRESH import will have a lot less rust. But you don't know the full history of that import (you're trusting the importer and the details within the paperwork with the car...these are all +/-20y.o. now), and a cherished UK car with proper, RECENT rust-repairs could easily be as good if not a better investment.
That said, I think everyone agrees that Milano Pink is not a good colour right now...
Petevxl said:
I would point you in the direction of itr-dc2.com for facts comparing the two models for fear I would give you duff info. There is a dedicated post on their resource page which compares 96, 98 and UK. You will need to register however it's worth waiting the few days it takes for the admin to set you up.
The grading system is pretty straight forward and there is plenty resource online which explains it well. 5 I think is a brand new car. 4.5 is exceptionally good condition. 4 is very good and so on...R and X can be used to show damage repaired/repainted (like the UK Cat d/c rating) Interior is marked by letters, A being the best and mint condition, B minor marks, C minor marks and bolster wear.
A good importer will take the time to explain all this to you however the majority of info is online but you just need to be sure it's a reliable source.
Can't recommend Torque highly enough btw.
Many thanks for the feedback, good to hear re Torque GT, I'll be keeping an eye on their website.The grading system is pretty straight forward and there is plenty resource online which explains it well. 5 I think is a brand new car. 4.5 is exceptionally good condition. 4 is very good and so on...R and X can be used to show damage repaired/repainted (like the UK Cat d/c rating) Interior is marked by letters, A being the best and mint condition, B minor marks, C minor marks and bolster wear.
A good importer will take the time to explain all this to you however the majority of info is online but you just need to be sure it's a reliable source.
Can't recommend Torque highly enough btw.
havoc said:
- 187 vs 197bhp is a little misleading, as the 197 is on Japanese 100RON fuel. But the JDM '98 exhaust comments above by Paul are spot-on, they are better.
- JDM '98 has 16" rims, with re-tuned dampers (& possibly springs...not 100% sure) to compensate.
- JDM '96 as 15" rims with 4-stud hubs and smaller diameter front discs. For that reason alone I'd avoid a '96.
- JDM '98 Type-Rx came with folding mirrors, rear tints (& smth else I think), and could be had in yellow.
- USDM buyers got a raw deal in many senses, but you won't see one over here.
There's also some other detail bits and pieces between the cars (as above, join the owners forum, or what's left of it), but the above are the key differences.
For me the UKDM vs JDM debate isn't as clear-cut. Yes a '98 IS a slightly better car than a UKDM...but we're really talking fractions, not wholesale. And yes, a FRESH import will have a lot less rust. But you don't know the full history of that import (you're trusting the importer and the details within the paperwork with the car...these are all +/-20y.o. now), and a cherished UK car with proper, RECENT rust-repairs could easily be as good if not a better investment.
That said, I think everyone agrees that Milano Pink is not a good colour right now...
Thanks for the detailed reply too. My preference is for a UKDM but finding one is so hard, plus ever since I looked at a 38k miler a couple of years ago which still had rust coming through I had given up, though starting to look again I've just decided I'll need to do the rust and accept it for what it is.- JDM '98 has 16" rims, with re-tuned dampers (& possibly springs...not 100% sure) to compensate.
- JDM '96 as 15" rims with 4-stud hubs and smaller diameter front discs. For that reason alone I'd avoid a '96.
- JDM '98 Type-Rx came with folding mirrors, rear tints (& smth else I think), and could be had in yellow.
- USDM buyers got a raw deal in many senses, but you won't see one over here.
There's also some other detail bits and pieces between the cars (as above, join the owners forum, or what's left of it), but the above are the key differences.
For me the UKDM vs JDM debate isn't as clear-cut. Yes a '98 IS a slightly better car than a UKDM...but we're really talking fractions, not wholesale. And yes, a FRESH import will have a lot less rust. But you don't know the full history of that import (you're trusting the importer and the details within the paperwork with the car...these are all +/-20y.o. now), and a cherished UK car with proper, RECENT rust-repairs could easily be as good if not a better investment.
That said, I think everyone agrees that Milano Pink is not a good colour right now...
acme said:
I've just decided I'll need to do the rust and accept it for what it is.
Given the cars now are worth +/- £10k in properly good condition, a few grand to get the arches sorted and the car re-undersealed makes a lot of sense.
Just make sure that's all it needs...there's bound to be some out there looking the worse for wear in other ways, or where the rust has never really been done...
Finding a clean CW UK car is going to be a hard task. I got exceptionally lucky with mine.
All the previous posts are correct regarding bits to look for. Arch Rust, motor torque mounts, bushes etc. Add rear calipers to that list also. They begin to bind eventually. Clutches don’t last forever either. Originals no longer available through Honda either!
As a small footnote- Capital indeed sell new bolster foams which are decent- however the covers don’t match the original material style or red colour for the DC2.
Just about to rebush mine with Hardrace bushes & Blueprint droplinks/balljoints @65k miles. I’d wager any DC2 that hasnt had them done will be crying out for a rebush by now. Given the suspension setup is double wishbone they really do go off pretty badly once the bushes are aged.
Dampers are actually pretty hardy. I suspect your average Joe replaces the OEM suspension with coilovers when really it’s the bushes that are making the car feel imprecise....
My car is an OEM+ UKDM. JDM 98 manifold cat & b pipe. The B pipes are actually no more restrictive on a UK car- just the wrong length to suit JDM cat
All the previous posts are correct regarding bits to look for. Arch Rust, motor torque mounts, bushes etc. Add rear calipers to that list also. They begin to bind eventually. Clutches don’t last forever either. Originals no longer available through Honda either!
As a small footnote- Capital indeed sell new bolster foams which are decent- however the covers don’t match the original material style or red colour for the DC2.
Just about to rebush mine with Hardrace bushes & Blueprint droplinks/balljoints @65k miles. I’d wager any DC2 that hasnt had them done will be crying out for a rebush by now. Given the suspension setup is double wishbone they really do go off pretty badly once the bushes are aged.
Dampers are actually pretty hardy. I suspect your average Joe replaces the OEM suspension with coilovers when really it’s the bushes that are making the car feel imprecise....
My car is an OEM+ UKDM. JDM 98 manifold cat & b pipe. The B pipes are actually no more restrictive on a UK car- just the wrong length to suit JDM cat
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