S2000 - why such a range of values

S2000 - why such a range of values

Author
Discussion

Sevenon

101 posts

4 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
mike74 said:
£6k for one just about to tip over to the key six figure mileage (which puts off lots of buyers) with rotten arches and sills, a rusty bonnet, scabby wheels and other 'cosmetic' defects... so no saying what other non-cosmetic defects it also has that the owner has skimped on or avoided/ignored altogether.

Bargain!
Point taken, but if you're handy or have access to a family friend mechanic, it wouldn't be too costly to fix up. It's a satisfying hobby doing up unloved cars, maybe I am weird biggrin

Sevenon

101 posts

4 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
Orangecurry said:
...that would be difficult, as you don't allow it smile
Whoops didn't realise. I've changed the setting now.

Orangecurry

Original Poster:

6,285 posts

162 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
I didn't realise it had to be moonstone.

IMO if you are looking for a rare car, that you want to be in a certain state, that was made twenty years ago, the colour would be the moveable object smile

Edited by Orangecurry on Tuesday 30th June 19:06

T5SOR

1,793 posts

181 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
I was thinking about another MX5/VX220 and then thought about S2000s. I am very tempted to buy a <2006 in a decent colour. I can't see any about at the moment, but will keep an eye out.

rustfalia

1,903 posts

122 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
Paid 5k for mine two years ago.
Sold for 7250, enjoyed it but one needing no work would be 10+ now.

Dont get why some people think they can ask 15+.

mstrbkr

7,530 posts

154 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
rustfalia said:
Paid 5k for mine two years ago.
Sold for 7250, enjoyed it but one needing no work would be 10+ now.

Dont get why some people think they can ask 15+.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202006160203023

Stunning condition, but £16k!

Little Bob

146 posts

165 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
mstrbkr said:
Looks very similar to mine, except mine’s a GT with hardtop, but moonrock with red leather on a 55 plate. Criminally underused having covered 23.5k miles.

Took me a while to find this one - had to be a facelift ‘03 to March ‘06 car, (didn’t want a later drive by wire, higher tax car, or an 08/09 car and the potential issues, but did want the revised suspension, and 17” wheels which help calm things down a touch, and IMNO the facelift changes just look better) preferably in moonrock, low mileage, immaculate, well maintained, accident free, trustworthy owner,

Very lucky to find this one, via a wanted ad on the owners club.

Owned it for two and a half years now, often think about selling as it is rarely used, lives on a trickle charger in the garage, But then I drive it and it reminds me what a wonderful thing it is.
Utterly brilliant engine, the best gear change, timeless looks, superbly built, renowned reliability, soft top, superb cabin - loads of driver focused details,, etc., etc.

That car at £16k may well be £17k next year, there are fewer and fewer good original, unmolested ones about now with sub 70k miles. Prices have been rising for the last 5 years plus, and Honda haven’t replaced it.

I think they are pretty special cars, with not many obvious rivals that tick all the same boxes that come to mind. I don’t miss my S1 Sport 135 Elise or Caterham too much, a k series is incomparable to the fabulous F20C.

Don’t worry too much about the price, you won’t lose money on an S2000, if that’s your main concern - once you hit 9,000rpm, you won’t care what it cost.



mstrbkr

7,530 posts

154 months

Wednesday 1st July
quotequote all
Little Bob said:
mstrbkr said:
Don’t worry too much about the price, you won’t lose money on an S2000, if that’s your main concern - once you hit 9,000rpm, you won’t care what it cost.
I already have one wink (my second)

Though due to my budget I had to settle for one on 87k that needed (still needs) some work to get it perfect. 2005 Silverstone GT with hardtop, black/red interior. Intend to keep it forever thumbup

fastraxx

7,808 posts

59 months

Wednesday 1st July
quotequote all
mstrbkr said:
A dreamer

mikdys

184 posts

191 months

Wednesday 1st July
quotequote all
griffter said:
The reputation for skittish handling is probably not a total myth but I’ve never encountered it. Good tyres and suspension go a long way in these.
I think the reputation goes back to the early cars. They came with 16" wheels and Bridgestone S02 tyres. The nominal size of the rear tyre was 225/45/16. But...this tyre was specially made by Bridegstone for the S2000 to get the right balance for the car (the tyre was designated "ES02JZ" and was discontinued around 2007-8). Basically, the ES02JZ was a 233 width tread on a 225 carcass and made this way to have a stiffer sidewall than a 225 would normally have. The trouble was this information was never highlighted to owners and they they ended up fitting any old 225 width tyres and especially as S-02s were difficult to get hold of.

When I bought my 2000 MY in 2003 (I still have it BTW &, no, it's not for sale!) the previous owner had fitted S-03s all round and 225 width on the back. On road test I felt the car was very loose at the back but I couldn't see any major faults with it and thought it might just want geometry sorting out or something so I bought it anyway. Shortly after getting it home I was following another car around a mini roundabout at about 25mph and he went round fine and I went round sideways drifting style! I then figured I need to sort out the handling ASAP and discovered the above info' and that Bracknell Tyres kept a stock of ES02JZ's especially for S2000 owners. I got a full set fitted (new fronts and backs) and the car was transformed. For good measure I tried that mini roundabout again and it went round like it was on rails. Also, taking corners at a good speed the breaking of traction at the rear became very progressive, and not at all sudden like it had been before, and the car became an absolute dream to drive.

I'm convinced this is what gave the car it's "backwards in a ditch" early reputation. Obviously, later cars had altered suspension and larger wheels etc that removed the issue anyway. Since ES02JZ's were discontinued I have found the best way to balance the car on its 16inch wheels is to fit 245 width tyres at the back with a couple more PSI in them. I'm running Toyo Proxes like this at the moment and they balance the car OK (although they have nothing like the grip and progressive breakaway of those ES02JZs which are greatly missed).

Gio G

2,458 posts

165 months

Thursday 2nd July
quotequote all
mikdys said:
I think the reputation goes back to the early cars. They came with 16" wheels and Bridgestone S02 tyres. The nominal size of the rear tyre was 225/45/16. But...this tyre was specially made by Bridegstone for the S2000 to get the right balance for the car (the tyre was designated "ES02JZ" and was discontinued around 2007-8). Basically, the ES02JZ was a 233 width tread on a 225 carcass and made this way to have a stiffer sidewall than a 225 would normally have. The trouble was this information was never highlighted to owners and they they ended up fitting any old 225 width tyres and especially as S-02s were difficult to get hold of.

When I bought my 2000 MY in 2003 (I still have it BTW &, no, it's not for sale!) the previous owner had fitted S-03s all round and 225 width on the back. On road test I felt the car was very loose at the back but I couldn't see any major faults with it and thought it might just want geometry sorting out or something so I bought it anyway. Shortly after getting it home I was following another car around a mini roundabout at about 25mph and he went round fine and I went round sideways drifting style! I then figured I need to sort out the handling ASAP and discovered the above info' and that Bracknell Tyres kept a stock of ES02JZ's especially for S2000 owners. I got a full set fitted (new fronts and backs) and the car was transformed. For good measure I tried that mini roundabout again and it went round like it was on rails. Also, taking corners at a good speed the breaking of traction at the rear became very progressive, and not at all sudden like it had been before, and the car became an absolute dream to drive.

I'm convinced this is what gave the car it's "backwards in a ditch" early reputation. Obviously, later cars had altered suspension and larger wheels etc that removed the issue anyway. Since ES02JZ's were discontinued I have found the best way to balance the car on its 16inch wheels is to fit 245 width tyres at the back with a couple more PSI in them. I'm running Toyo Proxes like this at the moment and they balance the car OK (although they have nothing like the grip and progressive breakaway of those ES02JZs which are greatly missed).
Just changed out the 16’s with refurbished 17’s, fitted with Goodyear Asymmetric 5 all round. Had Eibach pro springs fitted with the geo done, by TGM. My word it feels like a totally different car..feels so much more compliant..


G

aka_kerrly

11,361 posts

166 months

Thursday 2nd July
quotequote all
Sevenon said:
mike74 said:
£6k for one just about to tip over to the key six figure mileage (which puts off lots of buyers) with rotten arches and sills, a rusty bonnet, scabby wheels and other 'cosmetic' defects... so no saying what other non-cosmetic defects it also has that the owner has skimped on or avoided/ignored altogether.

Bargain!
Point taken, but if you're handy or have access to a family friend mechanic, it wouldn't be too costly to fix up. It's a satisfying hobby doing up unloved cars, maybe I am weird biggrin
This is what I hate about the modern world of investment cars.
Someone sees for example a 20k 1 owner mint S2000 sell for £15k they somehow do the maths an think one with 7x the mileage, several owners, little evidence of history that would need £10k minimum to get close to the standard of the £15k car is worth £10k.

It frustrates me that there are a lot of geedy owners of average cars that are trying to get prestine example money for them.

griffter

3,444 posts

211 months

Thursday 2nd July
quotequote all
mikdys said:
I think the reputation goes back to the early cars. They came with 16" wheels and Bridgestone S02 tyres. The nominal size of the rear tyre was 225/45/16. But...this tyre was specially made by Bridegstone for the S2000 to get the right balance for the car (the tyre was designated "ES02JZ" and was discontinued around 2007-8). Basically, the ES02JZ was a 233 width tread on a 225 carcass and made this way to have a stiffer sidewall than a 225 would normally have. The trouble was this information was never highlighted to owners and they they ended up fitting any old 225 width tyres and especially as S-02s were difficult to get hold of.

When I bought my 2000 MY in 2003 (I still have it BTW &, no, it's not for sale!) the previous owner had fitted S-03s all round and 225 width on the back. On road test I felt the car was very loose at the back but I couldn't see any major faults with it and thought it might just want geometry sorting out or something so I bought it anyway. Shortly after getting it home I was following another car around a mini roundabout at about 25mph and he went round fine and I went round sideways drifting style! I then figured I need to sort out the handling ASAP and discovered the above info' and that Bracknell Tyres kept a stock of ES02JZ's especially for S2000 owners. I got a full set fitted (new fronts and backs) and the car was transformed. For good measure I tried that mini roundabout again and it went round like it was on rails. Also, taking corners at a good speed the breaking of traction at the rear became very progressive, and not at all sudden like it had been before, and the car became an absolute dream to drive.

I'm convinced this is what gave the car it's "backwards in a ditch" early reputation. Obviously, later cars had altered suspension and larger wheels etc that removed the issue anyway. Since ES02JZ's were discontinued I have found the best way to balance the car on its 16inch wheels is to fit 245 width tyres at the back with a couple more PSI in them. I'm running Toyo Proxes like this at the moment and they balance the car OK (although they have nothing like the grip and progressive breakaway of those ES02JZs which are greatly missed).
That’s interesting. Not heard that detail of explanation before. Honda also subsequently issued a “UK geo setting” to respond to feedback.

I have standard size Avon ZV7s, Tein springs and fairly neutral geo. I like the way it handles but I don’t overdo it on the road.

I like the look of the 16s and don’t want to fit bigger / facelift wheels. I think there’s probably more than one “solution” but a lot of the problem is personal preference!

Bathroom_Security

1,729 posts

73 months

Thursday 2nd July
quotequote all
Theres a red one on ebay at 12500 Ive had my eye on for a while now. Looks ok.


Orangecurry

Original Poster:

6,285 posts

162 months

Thursday 2nd July
quotequote all
How wide are the 16s?

I have run 'standard' S02s on a different car, and I took them on two Euro trips and round several circuits.

They are (were) an excellent tyre in that they suit being warm and have stiff sidewalls full-stop. More a track-tyre that was also good for the road,

Maybe those characteristics also helped on the S2000?

trails

751 posts

105 months

Thursday 2nd July
quotequote all
I'll go and check my 16's in the garage and report back.

17s make a massive difference in terms of stability, even on a 2005 car with the tweaked geo it is a significantly easier to get the car up on its toes and moving around on 16s. Not always what you want mind you...

trails

751 posts

105 months

Thursday 2nd July
quotequote all
mikdys said:
Depends when you need to loosen them - I'd suggest you don't need to touch the suspension bolts on an S2000 unless there is a failed bush or bent arm and these don't happen every day smile
Not really correct; geo should be checked at least once a year and every time you change tyres smile

trails

751 posts

105 months

Thursday 2nd July
quotequote all
16s are 6.5' front and 7.5' rear, so half inch narrower all round that OE 17s.

mikdys

184 posts

191 months

Thursday 2nd July
quotequote all
griffter said:
That’s interesting. Not heard that detail of explanation before. Honda also subsequently issued a “UK geo setting” to respond to feedback.

I have standard size Avon ZV7s, Tein springs and fairly neutral geo. I like the way it handles but I don’t overdo it on the road.

I like the look of the 16s and don’t want to fit bigger / facelift wheels. I think there’s probably more than one “solution” but a lot of the problem is personal preference!
I had an email from Bridgestone on the subject at one point - I got hold of a contact there and asked them if they'd be willing to make another batch of the ES02JZs if I could get enough buyers to make a small production run worthwhile (I would have bought several sets and shrink wrapped and stored them for myself!). Unfortunately, they had got rid of the moulds (or so they said). They did share a little technical detail with me on the design though (233 on a 225 carcase as I stated earlier). As it was I think I bought the last few tyres Bracknell Tyres had in stock. They were really good tyres but only used to last 8-10k miles.

mikdys

184 posts

191 months

Thursday 2nd July
quotequote all
trails said:
Not really correct; geo should be checked at least once a year and every time you change tyres smile
We agree to disagree on that one then smile