Worst Track Day, Organisers & Most Expensive.....
Discussion
It seems my post from last evening was removed due to my mentioning the trackday company by name as well as the foul mouthed organiser who also does the very unprofessional briefing.....
So....
No names....
Suffice to say I have just returned from a 2 day stint in Spa which was £795 for both Monday & Tuesday 22/23rd.
Briefing at Le Source Hotel Sunday at 7.10pm....
The chap in his late50's early 60's started the briefing and began with a huge amount of swear words, many women were present but this didnt seem to matter to this bombastic, GOD like person who has been doing trackdays for 25yrs and didnt he tell us..... Lol....
He continued to swear, rant, rave...... Said very little about the importance of the day, flag signals, entry and exit pit lane, etc...etc.... Basically your on the best track in the World with the best trackday company in the World so you shoudnt need to ask, if you do then your not for us so flip off..... In harsher words peeps....
He then went on to ask people to raise their hands if they havent been here to Spa before and who hadnt booked his glorious son for tuition.... Many did and bet they wished they hadnt..... He absolutely ripped into them with more harsh swear words and hoped they would learn their lesson by running off and terminally ruining their car....
Im serious peeps.... 100% !!!!!!
So to the days themselves.....
Attended by McLaren for their F1 & P1 buying customers, numerous race teams, Radical, Ginetta (who's driver ploughed his G50 into the wall, ran out of talent, not road.....) Porsche GT Cup cars, Ferrari Challenge race teams.... All supported with their 40ft lorries, dozens of mechanics, computers, air jacks, new slicks, more new slicks, blah.... Blah....
Oh.... And a few of us.... Normal tintop driving good old fashioned customers.... Who'd paid the very same price as these teams.... Yet with overtaking left, right, centre, diving down the inside, taking your lines, apex, braking points etc.... It was a case of keeping one eye on your rear view mirror, the other ahead and your third anywhere you could think of....
Oh.... And some of these race cars ran off the track, broke down, caused reds etc.... Real good they were...
Then to top it off the very three organisers, father, son and young lady were in the same restaurant as us last night, two tables down, didnt know us etc.... Probably thought we were unsuspecting locals, however, it was amusing listening to them slag many of the customers off inc the poor lad who totalled his Nissan GT-R....
So.....
In closing, I hope this remains here for people to read, to at least avail them of what this company is really about.... We have been doing trackdays on and off for a good 15yrs.... With many who are still in business, some who are not.... We were at Spa at the earlier part of this month with who we regard as the very best out there great DAYS on CIRCUIT with them everytime....
Regards
Chris King
So....
No names....
Suffice to say I have just returned from a 2 day stint in Spa which was £795 for both Monday & Tuesday 22/23rd.
Briefing at Le Source Hotel Sunday at 7.10pm....
The chap in his late50's early 60's started the briefing and began with a huge amount of swear words, many women were present but this didnt seem to matter to this bombastic, GOD like person who has been doing trackdays for 25yrs and didnt he tell us..... Lol....
He continued to swear, rant, rave...... Said very little about the importance of the day, flag signals, entry and exit pit lane, etc...etc.... Basically your on the best track in the World with the best trackday company in the World so you shoudnt need to ask, if you do then your not for us so flip off..... In harsher words peeps....
He then went on to ask people to raise their hands if they havent been here to Spa before and who hadnt booked his glorious son for tuition.... Many did and bet they wished they hadnt..... He absolutely ripped into them with more harsh swear words and hoped they would learn their lesson by running off and terminally ruining their car....
Im serious peeps.... 100% !!!!!!
So to the days themselves.....
Attended by McLaren for their F1 & P1 buying customers, numerous race teams, Radical, Ginetta (who's driver ploughed his G50 into the wall, ran out of talent, not road.....) Porsche GT Cup cars, Ferrari Challenge race teams.... All supported with their 40ft lorries, dozens of mechanics, computers, air jacks, new slicks, more new slicks, blah.... Blah....
Oh.... And a few of us.... Normal tintop driving good old fashioned customers.... Who'd paid the very same price as these teams.... Yet with overtaking left, right, centre, diving down the inside, taking your lines, apex, braking points etc.... It was a case of keeping one eye on your rear view mirror, the other ahead and your third anywhere you could think of....
Oh.... And some of these race cars ran off the track, broke down, caused reds etc.... Real good they were...
Then to top it off the very three organisers, father, son and young lady were in the same restaurant as us last night, two tables down, didnt know us etc.... Probably thought we were unsuspecting locals, however, it was amusing listening to them slag many of the customers off inc the poor lad who totalled his Nissan GT-R....
So.....
In closing, I hope this remains here for people to read, to at least avail them of what this company is really about.... We have been doing trackdays on and off for a good 15yrs.... With many who are still in business, some who are not.... We were at Spa at the earlier part of this month with who we regard as the very best out there great DAYS on CIRCUIT with them everytime....
Regards
Chris King
I think it is very much a " Don't like it don't use it again answer "
Some will come back to them for the nice range of cars and some for the overtaking on both sides. And some would never go back. I presume you wont
Never used Circuit days but did use Gold Track for Spa and they were always very very good. No swearing too
Eduardo.
Some will come back to them for the nice range of cars and some for the overtaking on both sides. And some would never go back. I presume you wont
Never used Circuit days but did use Gold Track for Spa and they were always very very good. No swearing too
Eduardo.
Sadly there is a lot of thuggish behaviour from TDO's.
As consumers there's little we can do other than vote with our wallet. Some people rave about X, others rant about X. There doesn't seem to be a universally acclaimed company, heard and witnessed bad things about most of them.
Some of the people running these things behave like they should be working on the door of a small town night club..
As consumers there's little we can do other than vote with our wallet. Some people rave about X, others rant about X. There doesn't seem to be a universally acclaimed company, heard and witnessed bad things about most of them.
Some of the people running these things behave like they should be working on the door of a small town night club..
If what the OP is saying is true it sounds like an awful way to communicate with your paying customers.
The briefings we gave were always courteous and encouraged firstly safety but also courtesy from all drivers to each other, we built an atmosphere of community and encouraged polite, enthusiastic verbal interaction. This resulted in most of the drivers talking excitedly to each other, helping with lines, tyre pressures, tips and tricks and 'dab of oppo' banter - often drivers would end up giving passenger rides to other attendees.
Almost everyone got a prize for something - best sounding engine, biggest spin, quickest lap, slowest lap, highest top speed, driver of the day, best rookie, nicest overalls, biggest hairstyle and anything else we could dream up.
We only ever had 3 big accidents, all rollovers, all due to loss of brakes at the end of the main straight.
Everyone went home happy and nearly always signed up for the next event.
The briefings we gave were always courteous and encouraged firstly safety but also courtesy from all drivers to each other, we built an atmosphere of community and encouraged polite, enthusiastic verbal interaction. This resulted in most of the drivers talking excitedly to each other, helping with lines, tyre pressures, tips and tricks and 'dab of oppo' banter - often drivers would end up giving passenger rides to other attendees.
Almost everyone got a prize for something - best sounding engine, biggest spin, quickest lap, slowest lap, highest top speed, driver of the day, best rookie, nicest overalls, biggest hairstyle and anything else we could dream up.
We only ever had 3 big accidents, all rollovers, all due to loss of brakes at the end of the main straight.
Everyone went home happy and nearly always signed up for the next event.
Ive attended many over the years, when trackdays were quite new.... My first in 1999 in a lowly std Subaru.... A lot of the Forums used to organise the days as well as a number of companies, some who are still here, some who are not....
I qualified as an ARDS instructor mainly to help & enjoy the " hobby ", I remember doing near 3-5 days a week when times were really good.... Often attending corporate days for manufacturers, I remember Honda back in 2001/2 bringing NSX's & some down to a Silverstone day & myself, Tim Mullen & Phil Bennett taking "Customers" out for hot laps....
Then I supported my son in karting for the next 10yrs.....
So getting back into the odd trackday over the last year or two Ive done some UK & Spa meets. The companies Ive attended have always been professional, FIRM but courteous, helpful etc with a good amount of banter....
Id never attended this other companies day before but it seemed high end, professional & the fact they had a two day event at Spa fitted in quite well for my wife & I who made it into a long weekend trip etc....
Ive come away quite shocked to be honest & simply wanted to share our experience with others. Some wont mind being treated as such, some will....
An extra note..... We were using the F1 garages..... I was sharing with a race team who had brought their own race fuel, dispensing it out of the usual fuel drums via suction.... Other teams were also doing this.... Yet the organiser himself smoking a large cigar often came into the garages for a look around whilst still smoking....
Unbelievable !
We will not attend any of their days again.
I qualified as an ARDS instructor mainly to help & enjoy the " hobby ", I remember doing near 3-5 days a week when times were really good.... Often attending corporate days for manufacturers, I remember Honda back in 2001/2 bringing NSX's & some down to a Silverstone day & myself, Tim Mullen & Phil Bennett taking "Customers" out for hot laps....
Then I supported my son in karting for the next 10yrs.....
So getting back into the odd trackday over the last year or two Ive done some UK & Spa meets. The companies Ive attended have always been professional, FIRM but courteous, helpful etc with a good amount of banter....
Id never attended this other companies day before but it seemed high end, professional & the fact they had a two day event at Spa fitted in quite well for my wife & I who made it into a long weekend trip etc....
Ive come away quite shocked to be honest & simply wanted to share our experience with others. Some wont mind being treated as such, some will....
An extra note..... We were using the F1 garages..... I was sharing with a race team who had brought their own race fuel, dispensing it out of the usual fuel drums via suction.... Other teams were also doing this.... Yet the organiser himself smoking a large cigar often came into the garages for a look around whilst still smoking....
Unbelievable !
We will not attend any of their days again.
Edited by Northern Chap on Thursday 25th September 07:35
I noticed the price of trackdays slowly increasing last year but this year was a marked jump in price. Some companies wanted lots more than other companies to do the same circuit. People will vote with their feet. I have not been with 2 companies this year that I normally would have booked with and have used a different company at a much cheaper rate.
I have not however been to a day where the staff were rude or ran a rubbish day. Maybe I have been lucky or just picky to start with.
To the OP - who did the briefing at Spa ? Was it a local guy with a mixture of languages ?
I have not however been to a day where the staff were rude or ran a rubbish day. Maybe I have been lucky or just picky to start with.
To the OP - who did the briefing at Spa ? Was it a local guy with a mixture of languages ?
If you think it was that bad then I would let the Association of Track Day Organisers know as the company you are referring to is a member:
http://www.atdo.co.uk/
I am not sure if the TDO reads this forum, but for me the main concern was that many drivers seemed to be worried to ask any question in fear of beeing verbaly abused after the hard breifing. We might not know it all, and beeing approachable counts for a lot. Just a thought.
Eduardo.
Eduardo.
Interesting you posted this.
I was part of the group on the table next to him that all had to stick our hands up and be indirectly shamed/abused/made to feel inferior of the faster cars with amazing drivers. One of our group was visually boiling over and about ready to kick off! Pretty sure the quote was: if you crash, you better hope you’re dead, otherwise I’ll kill you myself. With a different delivery I could have seen the funny side of that, but not in this case. TBH the torment started with the e-mail harassment about instruction where they contradicted themselves with the “only 2 places left, but book early so we can book the appropriate number of instructors” comments. I didn’t see the need for yelling at the people coming in late (they weren’t missing anything!) and being treated like kids if anyone uttered anything near the back. To top it off, his own phone went off! We weren’t made to feel particularly welcome during the day unlike Opentrack for instance where you feel part of the family and they would bend over backwards to help you.
I agree it was the least informative briefing, no mention of how to get into the track/pits for starters, what was mentioned about flags was incorrect (white flags we guessed by the end of the day were recovery situations not the yellow ones described).
I also thought the briefing date/time could have been advertised ahead of everyone actually booking logistics. I had already made arrangements to meet people at the ‘ring, but had to rush back early.
Luckily it’s a great track with great marshalling and we did our best to put the rest behind us. I’m undecided about the overtaking rules, both sides speeds things up, but I’m not sure everyone was on the same page with where and how people should overtake. Saw a few close shaves.
I was part of the group on the table next to him that all had to stick our hands up and be indirectly shamed/abused/made to feel inferior of the faster cars with amazing drivers. One of our group was visually boiling over and about ready to kick off! Pretty sure the quote was: if you crash, you better hope you’re dead, otherwise I’ll kill you myself. With a different delivery I could have seen the funny side of that, but not in this case. TBH the torment started with the e-mail harassment about instruction where they contradicted themselves with the “only 2 places left, but book early so we can book the appropriate number of instructors” comments. I didn’t see the need for yelling at the people coming in late (they weren’t missing anything!) and being treated like kids if anyone uttered anything near the back. To top it off, his own phone went off! We weren’t made to feel particularly welcome during the day unlike Opentrack for instance where you feel part of the family and they would bend over backwards to help you.
I agree it was the least informative briefing, no mention of how to get into the track/pits for starters, what was mentioned about flags was incorrect (white flags we guessed by the end of the day were recovery situations not the yellow ones described).
I also thought the briefing date/time could have been advertised ahead of everyone actually booking logistics. I had already made arrangements to meet people at the ‘ring, but had to rush back early.
Luckily it’s a great track with great marshalling and we did our best to put the rest behind us. I’m undecided about the overtaking rules, both sides speeds things up, but I’m not sure everyone was on the same page with where and how people should overtake. Saw a few close shaves.
Hang on chaps...
I know exactly where the OP is coming from, and know who you are talking about.
My view.
The briefing we had was the same at Brands, it was very very tough and unique.
However, it worked.
All the drivers, the track dayers and the racers knew the rules.
It was geared just as much to the big teams to small guys like us.
For example, totally clear about race cars acting like thugs on track (RMA made it clear that's not going to wash).
Yes, the whole "Why didn't you book tuition etc" was tried on. Some people came forward after the abuse. I am well seasoned at TD's and had not done the GP circuit before, and he put the fear of god in me!
I guess it worked, I drove to my standards and enjoyed the day at the end.
FYI: I asked the chap after the briefing to clarify an issue, he seemed fine and didn't erupt.
To sum up: tough, unique, but gets the message over. End of day, IMHO, RMA are test days not track days. Big difference.
Good luck chaps,
HF
I know exactly where the OP is coming from, and know who you are talking about.
My view.
The briefing we had was the same at Brands, it was very very tough and unique.
However, it worked.
All the drivers, the track dayers and the racers knew the rules.
It was geared just as much to the big teams to small guys like us.
For example, totally clear about race cars acting like thugs on track (RMA made it clear that's not going to wash).
Yes, the whole "Why didn't you book tuition etc" was tried on. Some people came forward after the abuse. I am well seasoned at TD's and had not done the GP circuit before, and he put the fear of god in me!
I guess it worked, I drove to my standards and enjoyed the day at the end.
FYI: I asked the chap after the briefing to clarify an issue, he seemed fine and didn't erupt.
To sum up: tough, unique, but gets the message over. End of day, IMHO, RMA are test days not track days. Big difference.
Good luck chaps,
HF
Henry Fiddleton said:
Hang on chaps...
I know exactly where the OP is coming from, and know who you are talking about.
My view.
The briefing we had was the same at Brands, it was very very tough and unique.
However, it worked.
All the drivers, the track dayers and the racers knew the rules.
It was geared just as much to the big teams to small guys like us.
For example, totally clear about race cars acting like thugs on track (RMA made it clear that's not going to wash).
Yes, the whole "Why didn't you book tuition etc" was tried on. Some people came forward after the abuse. I am well seasoned at TD's and had not done the GP circuit before, and he put the fear of god in me!
I guess it worked, I drove to my standards and enjoyed the day at the end.
FYI: I asked the chap after the briefing to clarify an issue, he seemed fine and didn't erupt.
To sum up: tough, unique, but gets the message over. End of day, IMHO, RMA are test days not track days. Big difference.
Good luck chaps,
HF
Are test days not just for Race license drivers and track days for all. Not sure they are test days.I know exactly where the OP is coming from, and know who you are talking about.
My view.
The briefing we had was the same at Brands, it was very very tough and unique.
However, it worked.
All the drivers, the track dayers and the racers knew the rules.
It was geared just as much to the big teams to small guys like us.
For example, totally clear about race cars acting like thugs on track (RMA made it clear that's not going to wash).
Yes, the whole "Why didn't you book tuition etc" was tried on. Some people came forward after the abuse. I am well seasoned at TD's and had not done the GP circuit before, and he put the fear of god in me!
I guess it worked, I drove to my standards and enjoyed the day at the end.
FYI: I asked the chap after the briefing to clarify an issue, he seemed fine and didn't erupt.
To sum up: tough, unique, but gets the message over. End of day, IMHO, RMA are test days not track days. Big difference.
Good luck chaps,
HF
I do agree with you on, more suited to more experienced drivers.
Eduardo.
Henry Fiddleton said:
Hang on chaps...
I know exactly where the OP is coming from, and know who you are talking about.
My view.
The briefing we had was the same at Brands, it was very very tough and unique.
However, it worked.
All the drivers, the track dayers and the racers knew the rules.
It was geared just as much to the big teams to small guys like us.
For example, totally clear about race cars acting like thugs on track (RMA made it clear that's not going to wash).
Yes, the whole "Why didn't you book tuition etc" was tried on. Some people came forward after the abuse. I am well seasoned at TD's and had not done the GP circuit before, and he put the fear of god in me!
I guess it worked, I drove to my standards and enjoyed the day at the end.
FYI: I asked the chap after the briefing to clarify an issue, he seemed fine and didn't erupt.
To sum up: tough, unique, but gets the message over. End of day, IMHO, RMA are test days not track days. Big difference.
Good luck chaps,
HF
From RMA`s OWN FAQ....I know exactly where the OP is coming from, and know who you are talking about.
My view.
The briefing we had was the same at Brands, it was very very tough and unique.
However, it worked.
All the drivers, the track dayers and the racers knew the rules.
It was geared just as much to the big teams to small guys like us.
For example, totally clear about race cars acting like thugs on track (RMA made it clear that's not going to wash).
Yes, the whole "Why didn't you book tuition etc" was tried on. Some people came forward after the abuse. I am well seasoned at TD's and had not done the GP circuit before, and he put the fear of god in me!
I guess it worked, I drove to my standards and enjoyed the day at the end.
FYI: I asked the chap after the briefing to clarify an issue, he seemed fine and didn't erupt.
To sum up: tough, unique, but gets the message over. End of day, IMHO, RMA are test days not track days. Big difference.
Good luck chaps,
HF
RMA FAQ said:
Please Remember - The purpose of a track day is to provide the opportunity for participants to enjoy the performance of road or track prepared vehicles in a safe and controlled environment away from the public highway. It is not a facility for racing drivers to test race prepared cars or practice lap times. To ensure everyone’s safety compliance with these instructions is essential, failure to do so or any demonstration of inconsiderate, inappropriate or aggressive driving will result in immediate exclusion.
I attended Snetterton earlier this year. My first Trackday with them, after attending loads over the last several years with many other TDO`s. I went with a group of other regular trackdayers and we all walked out of the briefing with the same view.It was the worst briefing I`ve experienced. I`m all for being treated like an adult, but really ? Effing this, effing that. "If you don`t know what the effing flags are, you shouldn`t be on this day..".
After that sort of statement, nobody was going to dare ask a question if they were unsure. !
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