Worst Track Day, Organisers & Most Expensive.....
Discussion
Graham's previous posts on PH seem clear, fair but firm and quite reasonable. Maybe someone wrote them on his behalf?
I actually quite like the idea of a TDO being brutally firm if it means we stand more chance going home with our cars intact. I'm not saying i condone swearing or patronising customers at all, and there are enough comments on here to put me off. But my experience is that TDOs are a little slack, especially with regular clients. BaT are probably the best as Jonny tends to take an interest...
I actually quite like the idea of a TDO being brutally firm if it means we stand more chance going home with our cars intact. I'm not saying i condone swearing or patronising customers at all, and there are enough comments on here to put me off. But my experience is that TDOs are a little slack, especially with regular clients. BaT are probably the best as Jonny tends to take an interest...
m4rc1980 said:
While I'm in agony and my car is in the middle of the track in a bad way, he showed no concern whatsoever for me or my passenger looked at me in disgust and walked off when I said I needed help. I was taken off to hospital in an ambulance where I was diagnosed with a broken bone in my back.
The above says it all....Edited by m4rc1980 on Thursday 25th September 23:58
Robert Elise said:
Graham's previous posts on PH seem clear, fair but firm and quite reasonable. Maybe someone wrote them on his behalf?
I actually quite like the idea of a TDO being brutally firm if it means we stand more chance going home with our cars intact.
I actually agree with you and if you read the comments you are referring to it all seems pretty fair and reasonable. The reality was sadly different. Majority of the briefing was nothing more than playground bullying and completely unnecessary. I’ve seen other TDO’s warn of common mistakes that can happen or areas where run off is minimal which seems like a practical way to help newbies avoid accidents. Perhaps suggested areas where overtaking is/is not advised etc. “If you crash I’ll kill you” was pretty much how the safety aspect was dealt with.I actually quite like the idea of a TDO being brutally firm if it means we stand more chance going home with our cars intact.
We were told that aggressive driving would not be tolerated, nor would diving into corners on the brakes and stealing peoples apex. On track however this was a pretty standard way of overtaking. I’m not getting on my high horse about the overtaking rule(or lack of), but don’t for one minute think that your car is any safer, or as safe as the usual trackday format. It felt more like a tourist day at the Nordshleife. The only benefit was the circuit length to car ratio.
The rest of the briefing was just filled with blowing ones trumpet about how long they have been in the business, how much they know about everything, how great and fast the ‘other’ drivers and cars are, oh and of course how good his sons instruction is which we were too effing stupid not to have booked. None of which made a blind bit of difference to how anyone in my group drove (without incident) nor it seems the racing gods who managed to fire themselves off the track. I am pretty disgusted that the comments made at the briefing appear to have been acted out towards the guy in the GTR. I don’t know the details so won’t comment, but I find it strange that a business can survive with such little care for their customer’s wellbeing. There did seem to be the feeling that us minions had been allowed to attend to make up the numbers, so the driving gods could get their kicks.
Thankfully it is an amazing circuit and we had a good day once on track, but the briefing was pathetic.
Trev450 said:
I've never used RMA but after reading this I certainly don't intend to either.
Me too.QBee said:
Never had a problem with Javelin or MSV either, and the other Spa organisers seem to attract positive comments too
I don't want to confuse issues here, but I won't go with Javelin again.When I went with Javelin a few years ago I took a friend for his first trackday, and that was in my car. The briefing started very professionally and went as expected until the last minute when they suddenly announced that passing would be permitted (by consent) on EITHER SIDE. As a result there were so many near misses, that were totally unnecessary, because there are plenty of overtaking opportunities at Spa. Instead of being a relaxing introduction to trackday etiquette at one of the best circuits in Europe, it became almost as nerve racking as a TF lap at the Ring.
I'm really surprised to read the bad things about RMA. I have used Goldtrack for what must be nearly 10 years but traitorously did the RMA day at Silverstone GP last week. I found Grahams briefing refreshingly short and to the point (not that Goldtrack are bad but the cheaper TDO's are painful). I was one of the slowest cars there but found the standards of driving generally excellent except one car, very courteous (even the lmp/radical crowd) and enjoyed the freedom of their overtaking rules. I also didn't have any problem sharing the track with race teams, I just think it adds to the atmosphere and fun. I'm sorry people had a bad day at Spa but in my admittedly limited experience RMA are one of the better TDO's...
4packet said:
There did seem to be the feeling that us minions had been allowed to attend to make up the numbers, so the driving gods could get their kicks.
.
this might be the key point. And i don't think other TDOs are immune, it's not an easy business and regular custom is precious..
Trev450 said:
Interesting that they haven't even bothered to respond to this thread!
Have you actually read this thread? The majority of posts appear to have been from people who have never been on an RMA day and say they won't in future, even people who wern't there are supposedly so outraged they have reported them to the ATDO... wtf? I don't blame them avoiding this place!Well I've never been on an Are Em Aye day either but I did do an evening track day with another TDO at Silverstone when Are Em Aye were doing the daytime track day there.
You don't get too much time at an evening session, so it's good to have your car all prepared and ready to go on track from the off.
When i arrived at Silverstone in plenty of time to do the necessary, I found that all the evening session people were held in a car park a fair distance from the paddock and had to wait there until all the Are Em Aye customers had cleared the area before us mere plebs were allowed into the paddock area to prepare our cars.
It's a big paddock and probably most of the day people were in pit garages anyway, but I was told that the Are Em Aye organiser had prohibited entry until what was some time after their track time had finished.
You don't get too much time at an evening session, so it's good to have your car all prepared and ready to go on track from the off.
When i arrived at Silverstone in plenty of time to do the necessary, I found that all the evening session people were held in a car park a fair distance from the paddock and had to wait there until all the Are Em Aye customers had cleared the area before us mere plebs were allowed into the paddock area to prepare our cars.
It's a big paddock and probably most of the day people were in pit garages anyway, but I was told that the Are Em Aye organiser had prohibited entry until what was some time after their track time had finished.
fblm said:
Trev450 said:
Interesting that they haven't even bothered to respond to this thread!
Have you actually read this thread? The majority of posts appear to have been from people who have never been on an RMA day and say they won't in future, even people who wern't there are supposedly so outraged they have reported them to the ATDO... wtf? I don't blame them avoiding this place!Edited by Trev450 on Friday 26th September 16:46
I congratulate PH--for allowing an Open discussion and comments on this VERY important subject.To pay large sums of money to attend a controlled trackday, with NO control from the organiser for the safety of the entrant and their property, is unacceptable.
The fact that All circuits are fighting rising costs for upkeep, mean that less control of safety Driving standards, by trackday organisers is allowed?.I DONT think so.
My Involvement at the three day, Nordschleife BMW driving courses for 40+ years, showed that YOU controlled the driving standards in a Pleasant way----NOT the paying entrants.Interesting subject in todays EU liability blame culture.Does it have to be a fatality before---Again the due process of Law ends our enjoyment of our TD,s.
The fact that All circuits are fighting rising costs for upkeep, mean that less control of safety Driving standards, by trackday organisers is allowed?.I DONT think so.
My Involvement at the three day, Nordschleife BMW driving courses for 40+ years, showed that YOU controlled the driving standards in a Pleasant way----NOT the paying entrants.Interesting subject in todays EU liability blame culture.Does it have to be a fatality before---Again the due process of Law ends our enjoyment of our TD,s.
fblm said:
Have you actually read this thread? The majority of posts appear to have been from people who have never been on an RMA day and say they won't in future, even people who wern't there are supposedly so outraged they have reported them to the ATDO... wtf? I don't blame them avoiding this place!
I am delighted to have read this thread. I have not been to a trackday with RMA. Thanks to the kind contributors to the thread, I have been saved from wasting my money. I hope they continue to avoid this place, somewhere frequented by people who like to help others, and not undermine them. Thanks to all contributors for your 'heads up'.Trev450 said:
fblm said:
Trev450 said:
Interesting that they haven't even bothered to respond to this thread!
Have you actually read this thread? The majority of posts appear to have been from people who have never been on an RMA day and say they won't in future, even people who wern't there are supposedly so outraged they have reported them to the ATDO... wtf? I don't blame Anyway I have no wish to defend RMA anymore than I have above so I'll leave you to it...
fblm said:
Trev450 said:
fblm said:
Trev450 said:
Interesting that they haven't even bothered to respond to this thread!
Have you actually read this thread? The majority of posts appear to have been from people who have never been on an RMA day and say they won't in future, even people who wern't there are supposedly so outraged they have reported them to the ATDO... wtf? I don't blame Anyway I have no wish to defend RMA anymore than I have above so I'll leave you to it...
I have to say though that if my company was getting this much flack, I would at least attempt to argue my corner.
terenceb said:
Anyone ever tried RSR Spa for track days?
Well organised and set up, Ron is very approachable and puts on a great day. Did a Spa session with RSR couple of months back, fantastic track and will do another with RSR.As for Graham, known him for a while and I like him and his general 'straight to the point tell it as it is attitude', but then ex military, so the straight up style in your face talking down to is nothing new.
Not to everyone's liking though, and fair enough if not your thing, plenty others out there to choose from!
Edited by aussieinlondon on Friday 26th September 17:18
As the OP I simply wanted to make people aware of a poor experience both myself & my wife had with the said organiser. Everything I have stated has been supported above. The time at Spa was a little more special for us as my wife has a son (my stepson) with severe Cerebral Palsy who at 18yrs old lives with us 24/7 & always will do, he is totally dependent on us from feeding to dressing so its a fair old role we've got, more so my wife. We employ a carer to help us and occasionally give us some respite & will look after Ryan in our home whilst we have a rare weekend away......
When Spa came available I convinced my wife we could make it into a 5 day break.... Travel down from Manchester (all in the car we'd be taking on track), stay over near the tunnel.... Travel Sunday to Spa, attend the briefing, enjoy the Sunday evening, do the trackdays Mon & Tues whilst sampling the local food & wine (& very nice too :-) ) then leisurely travel back home Weds....
My wife has been a passenger many times on track & has always enjoyed 2-3 laps at a time.... At registration we paid £50 for her as a passenger for both days....
The briefing, in particular the chap saying " if you have an off it will big a very big off " put the fear of GOD up her, to the point of her saying she'd see how she felt after watching for a while..... That was enough to simple put her off & never actually went out.... I can write the money off but even though we all know trackdays are potentially dangerous we accept it & drive & hope that all things considered we will have a trouble free time....
When boarding a plane & taking your seat we wouldnt expect the Captain to say " if we go down, have a crash, it will be a big one & doubt any of us will survive " yet we all know were there to be an accident, we know the consequences.... But we still fly !
My wife fortunately spent the two days at track taking lots of photos, it kept her mind off things etc... We are due to go to Cadwell Weds Oct 1st but she's 50/50 even though Im trying to convince her the experience we had was a one off.....
We attended the day in a white Mitsubishi EVO 6 RS..... Driven at 8/10ths I enjoyed the 4-5 sessions per day I had out there.
Chris King
When Spa came available I convinced my wife we could make it into a 5 day break.... Travel down from Manchester (all in the car we'd be taking on track), stay over near the tunnel.... Travel Sunday to Spa, attend the briefing, enjoy the Sunday evening, do the trackdays Mon & Tues whilst sampling the local food & wine (& very nice too :-) ) then leisurely travel back home Weds....
My wife has been a passenger many times on track & has always enjoyed 2-3 laps at a time.... At registration we paid £50 for her as a passenger for both days....
The briefing, in particular the chap saying " if you have an off it will big a very big off " put the fear of GOD up her, to the point of her saying she'd see how she felt after watching for a while..... That was enough to simple put her off & never actually went out.... I can write the money off but even though we all know trackdays are potentially dangerous we accept it & drive & hope that all things considered we will have a trouble free time....
When boarding a plane & taking your seat we wouldnt expect the Captain to say " if we go down, have a crash, it will be a big one & doubt any of us will survive " yet we all know were there to be an accident, we know the consequences.... But we still fly !
My wife fortunately spent the two days at track taking lots of photos, it kept her mind off things etc... We are due to go to Cadwell Weds Oct 1st but she's 50/50 even though Im trying to convince her the experience we had was a one off.....
We attended the day in a white Mitsubishi EVO 6 RS..... Driven at 8/10ths I enjoyed the 4-5 sessions per day I had out there.
Chris King
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