Trackday cameras

[Smitters]

OK - I've been swayed into a new GoPro Hero 5, mainly because my Dad has offered to assist with the purchase, which is frankly awesome.

Aside from the obvious - a memory card or two and a spare battery, plus a rollbar mount for the car, are there any accessories that are worth thinking about for this type of camera? I see folks have often suggested an external mic. Any other thoughts/ideas?

[SpudLink]

It surprises me that the Ion action cameras are never mentioned in these discussions. Match the GoPro for quality and waterproof without a case. They’re not the cheapest, but a good deal less expensive than GoPro. The only limitation seems to be you can’t use GoPro mounts.


This is the model I use.

[Smitters]

I've swayed back! I started looking at the editing software because arguably, when you want to create something half decent, that's where you'll spend most of your time and it turns out that while GoPro allow the overlays, they do it it a dumb way and you have to repeatedly render clips, which when you do eight 15 minute sessions on a trackday, is going to get old really quickly. Garmin render once, so I've swung back to the Virb Elite. Added bonus is that it's considerably cheaper, a similar spec in fact to the Ion linked above, but much less cash. This leaves some pennies left over for a few toys, like an external mic, as I assume the built-in mic will be junk when mounted on a rollbar, decent mounts, a floating handle for the moment my son drops it in the pool and extra memory cards/batteries.

I'm not sure my budget extends to the very cool Rode powered mic linked above, so does anyone have any other recommendations? I run a screenless Caterham, so my mic will have to go under the dash or something to keep wind noise down and engine noise up. I'm slightly concerned the external mic adaptor seems to be out of stick everywhere, so I hope this isn't Garmin continuing a product line but discontinuing accessories. That would be super annoying, especially as 3rd party stuff has a habit of not working well with Garmins. Ho hum.

For those that care, my decisions making was thus:

HD - will my eyes really appreciate 4K and can I afford the memory cards!?
Not £££, so fewer tears if it falls off
Waterproof (ish) out of the box, without a case
Linkable, so if you have two or three cams for gratuitous Senna style heel and toe videos, starting cam 1 starts all of them
Software is good for adding GPS overlays and getting all nerdy about entry and apex speed

[hkp57]

This would be a Garmin Virb Elite Shopping list:- total cost 276.96 GBP

Garmin Virb Elite Power bundle as it comes with the remote control.
https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/p/119594/pn/020-00...

External Mic Adapter
https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/p/pn/010-11921-18

Budget External shotgun Mic
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professional-Digital-Vid...

2 meter long 3.5mm extension lead
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PURE-OFC-3-5mm-Jack-Exte...

Leave the mount up to you

[Jimbo NW]

hkp57 said:

This would be a Garmin Virb Elite Shopping list:- total cost 276.96 GBP

Garmin Virb Elite Power bundle as it comes with the remote control.
https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/p/119594/pn/020-00...

External Mic Adapter
https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/p/pn/010-11921-18

Budget External shotgun Mic
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professional-Digital-Vid...

2 meter long 3.5mm extension lead
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PURE-OFC-3-5mm-Jack-Exte...

Leave the mount up to you

How much work is it to retrofit the GoPro remotes? Much more variety and looks a similar mounting hole.

[hkp57]

Jimbo NW said:

How much work is it to retrofit the GoPro remotes? Much more variety and looks a similar mounting hole.

Assuming that was a typo and you meant mounts, I cant say for sure but they do look very similar, I just used the camera industry adapter to a clamp I already had from DogCam web site which is now closed down.

[TheRainMaker]

Avoid the GoPro mounting system as much as you can, it's utter garbage imo, if you do use it make sure you carry a Philips screw driver with you.

[StreetDragster]

Any recommendations on how to overlay onto gopro videos?

Thanks
Matt

[Smitters]

Cheers for the links. The mic adapter is out of stock everywhere so I got an alternative, but the mic and extension look like a good start.

The garmin comes with an adapter for the gopro mount systems, and therefore all 3rd party stuff, but I went oem for my rollbar mount as the plates have teeth to prevent slip. Roll on Donny and my first footage.

Re overlays, the new gopro software should do it, but only if you have the right camera. Otherwise it won't collect gps, accelerometer data etc.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Anyone have any ideas on these 3D cameras?

http://www.very.co.uk/kitvision-immerse-360deg-vid...

£99 seems not a huge amount to have a play with considering it comes with all the attachments. I only searched for it as it was mentioned in one of the classic car mags this month.

[untakenname]

You'd ideally want a 4k 360 degree camera as the resolution for a given fov is quite low, 1080p is fine for a 120 degree fov but when you have a full 360 it's a third of what you would get with a conventional cam.
Best bet is to have a look at the footage of whatever model you're interested in on youtube

Smitters said:

OK - I've been swayed into a new GoPro Hero 5, mainly because my Dad has offered to assist with the purchase, which is frankly awesome.

Aside from the obvious - a memory card or two and a spare battery, plus a rollbar mount for the car, are there any accessories that are worth thinking about for this type of camera? I see folks have often suggested an external mic. Any other thoughts/ideas?

I've started experimenting with an external mic that's plugged into a dictaphone as it saves having to run it all the way into the cabin and connect the camera itself, it's quite easy to sync as long as the date and time is accurate and if you beep the horn you can easily see the spike in the waveform and then drag the timelines to match perfectly.

Hardest part is mounting the mic to pic up decent engine noise without getting a load of wind buffering, did some experimenting yesterday and came up with this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUjo_m4w5Uk

[Smitters]

Mic position will require some experiments I reckon. Luckily, I have a Caterham, so it's an easy car to wire and there are plenty of spots out of the elements to mount a mic. My prime spot will be under the dash in front of the gear lever, but it'd be easy to run a wire to the engine bay, if not the driest of places to mount electronics...

[anonymous-user]

Peronally, I've found that the quality of the camera is not as important as a combination of the the quality of the image AND the sound.

I use a cheapo gopro rip off (£25 wifi cam) and I record the audio on a Tascam DR-05 pro audio recorder (£75) with a £15 wind gag (noise muff deadcat) off ebay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Microphone-Wind-Shield-N...

I attach the Tascam to the handbrake using a bike handlebar mount that came with the camera. There just are not many mounting places in a Westfield.

The Tascam is the only way I've found of recording over 102db sound without distortion (there are other pro audio recorders of course), The windgag works perfectly. For less than the cost of the cheapest gopro I've got reasonable video and top notch audio.

Some cameras let you feed external audio in, so you can plug the Tascam into your camera bypassing the need for post editing / audio sync. I do this when filming fireworks (my business) on my DSLR.

With car use, I record the audio on the Tascam (I can't link it to my car camera), clapping two times in front of the camera (for ease of later audio syncing). Then I use PowerDirector 10 to synch the audio after - it's dead easy.

The image quality is average, but plenty good enough to enjoy watching after , or analyse. The audio quality is bang on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb2SwbrtCIA

(straight cut gear box - hence the whining)

[loggyboy]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Anyone have any ideas on these 3D cameras?

http://www.very.co.uk/kitvision-immerse-360deg-vid...

£99 seems not a huge amount to have a play with considering it comes with all the attachments. I only searched for it as it was mentioned in one of the classic car mags this month.

FYI - Dont confuse 360 with 3D.
Also the one you posted isnt true 360 as it only has one lens, so closer to 180degree.
As mentioned, it needs to be 4k, (or at least 2k per lens) If you look at my post near the top, I have the Samsung Gear 360 which is 2k per lens, but it still only acceptable quality - as you only look at part of the recorded image. Sadly this could be enhanced if the viewing platform (ie youtube) would allow the uploaded to set a wider viewing angle.
The Samsung is arguably the best value for money I have seen for a 360 camera, and its half the price it was a year ago when I bought it as they have brought out the phase 2 (2017) model now which is less suit to car use IMO, and more aimed for hand held use.
http://www.samsung.com/uk/wearables/gear-360-c200/
You also need a decent PC to edit these, or in the case of the Gear 360, the latest samsung mobile. I dont have required phone but its still perfectly usable with a decent PC to edit.

Edited by loggyboy on Monday 5th June 10:36

[Smitters]

Cheers again for all the advice.

A budget shotgun mic may be one thing, but I can tell you this isn't the one to buy: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00RF3EQ32/ref...

I'm amassing the extras prior to actually getting the camera as I have a TD about four days after my birthday. So far I have a nice robust extension cable and a load of mounting gear, but I was very disappointed with the mic. I'd hoped £20 was enough to elevate it from the super budget junk, given you can get some basic branded gear at this price, but obviously not. So much hiss it's unueasble - having tested it on a dslr vs the inbuilt mic, then on the laptop, again vs the inbuilt mic. I tried with and without the extension, but even holding it about three inches from my face, the hiss drowns out the speech! I'll try a Sony lapel mic for now and move it about the car during some test drives an wait until I've used the editing software before looking for independent recording gear or a pricier mic.

[untakenname]

I tried a couple of different types of mics and ruled out boundary and shotgun mics and settled on a lapel/lavaliere type mainly due to the form factor but also as they handle high SPL pretty well compared to other types.


This is the mic I filmed my above post with, has a 130dB SPL so doesn't clip much, tried a cheap one first but it didn't sound very good http://en-uk.sennheiser.com/mini-lavalier-micropho...

Using a cheapish Olympus dictaphone that has PCM recording and a relatively wide frequency range.

[feef]

SpudLink said:

It surprises me that the Ion action cameras are never mentioned in these discussions. Match the GoPro for quality and waterproof without a case. They’re not the cheapest, but a good deal less expensive than GoPro. The only limitation seems to be you can’t use GoPro mounts.


This is the model I use.

the iOn the Action cameras are as good, but not better than others.

I had an iON the Action for a few months to test with SportPursuit while I was racing, and the drawback I found was the same that I have with the GoPro and that's that it needs to be mounted out on a little stalk so it's position can be adjusted.

The Drift that I normally use can rotate the camera sensor within the housing so it can be mounted much closer to the mount point and still be rotated to get the shot at the right angle.

This might not be an issue in-car, where there's more space, but it IS an issue when you're ragging it through a Yorkshire forest on a rally bike and the camera hooks a low branch! After that, I resorted to using my Drift, which I mount on the side of my helmet. The other convenient thing over a GoPro is that the Drift uses a standard camera thread mount so it'll fit to almost every adapter out there. There's even a sun-vision blanking plate mount for the MX5 which I have which works really well with the drift.

[Smitters]

Well, I now have the Virb Elite, but it's hardly been plain sailing so far. Not managed to take a video that has successfully recorded the GPS and speed info correctly, nor managed to get the Virb Edit software to export a video successfully. I concede it may be the user, but I'm reasonably savvy and I don't think I'm doing much wrong.

I'm really hoping it's not down to laptop specs took, as my work lappie is my only bit of kit and it is on the minimum for a couple of things in the software specs, but OK in other areas.

If I manage to get a video done, I'll let everyone know how it goes, but given the issues, I may be sending it back and just doing what was recommended in the first place, get a GoPro.

Any thoughts on third party software to add overlays for tracks, speed etc?

[loggyboy]

Smitters said:

Any thoughts on third party software to add overlays for tracks, speed etc?

My videos at top were done using Racerender (mid range 'deluxe' version) at around £25.

[Smitters]

loggyboy said:

Smitters said:

Any thoughts on third party software to add overlays for tracks, speed etc?

My videos at top were done using Racerender (mid range 'deluxe' version) at around £25.

Cheers. My main aim is using the camera to improve my driving so the overlay is important enough to warrant paying for. If I can't get the Garmin to work properly I'll get the money back, buy a more modern camera and some Racerender. Annoying though, as on paper, the Garmin should do it all out of the box, with no need to plug in to the car (I have a '96 Caterham, so this isn't an option anyway...).