BMW 330 v 328 as track car
Discussion
Hi all,
On a very low budget (£1500 to £2000), looking at the E46 330ci against the 328ci on paper there isn't much between them and we aren't that refined as drivers to be able to notice the difference. However how do the two compare for handling, and aftermarket tuning solutions - which would be cheaper to get more power out of.
Would also like to know what are the draw backs of a 2 door car against 4 door.
The car will be stripped initially so the extra luxury leather goodies aren't going to be used, but can be used to fund fuel and track days. Then it will have suspension uprated when we (me and my son) are comfortable with the stock set up. Eventually power uprated, and at some point I would like to put a cage in it purely for safety reasons.
Thanks for looking and look forward to the voices of experience.
On a very low budget (£1500 to £2000), looking at the E46 330ci against the 328ci on paper there isn't much between them and we aren't that refined as drivers to be able to notice the difference. However how do the two compare for handling, and aftermarket tuning solutions - which would be cheaper to get more power out of.
Would also like to know what are the draw backs of a 2 door car against 4 door.
The car will be stripped initially so the extra luxury leather goodies aren't going to be used, but can be used to fund fuel and track days. Then it will have suspension uprated when we (me and my son) are comfortable with the stock set up. Eventually power uprated, and at some point I would like to put a cage in it purely for safety reasons.
Thanks for looking and look forward to the voices of experience.
I have only done the e36 before & found the 328 a great engine for the task & without major surgery 220/230 is easy which brings it up the 330 standard power.
The problem is the e46 is around 150kg heavier than the e36 & that may be the deciding factor.
I know wrt the different chassis the coupe is less strong a shell than the saloon, I would guess the e46 is the same.
On price the saloon will probably be cheaper to buy all else being equal.
I don't think there are major differences wrt aftermarket parts supply/prices from one to the other.
The problem is the e46 is around 150kg heavier than the e36 & that may be the deciding factor.
I know wrt the different chassis the coupe is less strong a shell than the saloon, I would guess the e46 is the same.
On price the saloon will probably be cheaper to buy all else being equal.
I don't think there are major differences wrt aftermarket parts supply/prices from one to the other.
Cheapstraitsix said:
Shame you can't get a LSD fitted for a reasonable amount. Seems to work out as nearly as much as the car 
i dont think the weight penalty between the e36 and e46 is that bad, suspect its because the e46 has more luxuries. an E46 330ci really is a lovely place to sit, but electric leather seats weigh a tonne.
but i do know the e46 is slightly more aerodynamic, and it has lighters suspension components, so less unsprung weight. Also saloons are indeed stiffer than coupes, due to having a solid sheet of metal behind the rear seats (the coupe has folding rear seats)
i've ran all three variants of the car (e36 328i, e46 328i and e46 330ci) and the power difference is noticable in the 330ci, revs cleanly all the way to the redline, whereas the 328i goes a bit flat above 5500rpm.
personally when i was looking for my next car, i got a e46 328i because they were a useful couple of hundred quid cheaper than a 330ci, and that money is better spent on brakes and tyres rather than a slightly more powerful engine.
but i do know the e46 is slightly more aerodynamic, and it has lighters suspension components, so less unsprung weight. Also saloons are indeed stiffer than coupes, due to having a solid sheet of metal behind the rear seats (the coupe has folding rear seats)
i've ran all three variants of the car (e36 328i, e46 328i and e46 330ci) and the power difference is noticable in the 330ci, revs cleanly all the way to the redline, whereas the 328i goes a bit flat above 5500rpm.
personally when i was looking for my next car, i got a e46 328i because they were a useful couple of hundred quid cheaper than a 330ci, and that money is better spent on brakes and tyres rather than a slightly more powerful engine.
As the (happy) owner of an E46 330ci Sport (and a separate track car), I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole for track work. They are heavy, far too loaded with kit, the chassis isn't brilliant, and the throttle response is dire. To make it enjoyable on track, you'd need to spend your budget over again. I can see why they might appeal, because of the bhp/£, but this doesn't tell the story of how it drives.
It makes a wonderfully smooth and comfortable road car, particularly around London - but I'd be going after something lighter and more chuckable (as I did) for trackdays. £2k gets you an excellent Clio Sport, which would comfortably outrun a 328/330 on all but the longest tracks. Get something even cheaper (like my 206 GTi) and you can have a well-prepped car for under your budget.
As for people recommending the E46 Compact - don't waste your time. Still >1.4T, and suffering all the same problems as the full-size E46.
It makes a wonderfully smooth and comfortable road car, particularly around London - but I'd be going after something lighter and more chuckable (as I did) for trackdays. £2k gets you an excellent Clio Sport, which would comfortably outrun a 328/330 on all but the longest tracks. Get something even cheaper (like my 206 GTi) and you can have a well-prepped car for under your budget.
As for people recommending the E46 Compact - don't waste your time. Still >1.4T, and suffering all the same problems as the full-size E46.
C70R said:
As the (happy) owner of an E46 330ci Sport (and a separate track car), I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole for track work. They are heavy, far too loaded with kit, the chassis isn't brilliant, and the throttle response is dire. To make it enjoyable on track, you'd need to spend your budget over again. I can see why they might appeal, because of the bhp/£, but this doesn't tell the story of how it drives.
It makes a wonderfully smooth and comfortable road car, particularly around London - but I'd be going after something lighter and more chuckable (as I did) for trackdays. £2k gets you an excellent Clio Sport, which would comfortably outrun a 328/330 on all but the longest tracks. Get something even cheaper (like my 206 GTi) and you can have a well-prepped car for under your budget.
As for people recommending the E46 Compact - don't waste your time. Still >1.4T, and suffering all the same problems as the full-size E46.
I agree with some points, but not all. The e36 albeit still heavy cam be turned into a very capable track car, admittedly not for 2K budget however unless buying a used / prepped track car from someone. A few on ebay now as it happens. I am yet to see a Clio of any kind come past even those running on semi slicks whist we run on crap or used sport tyres like Conti3's, neither of which are the tip of performance. My advice is to buy a prepped car, it will cost you twice as much as a minim starting from scratch. If you want bhp then accept that pads/discs/fluids as well as upgrades will cost you more.It makes a wonderfully smooth and comfortable road car, particularly around London - but I'd be going after something lighter and more chuckable (as I did) for trackdays. £2k gets you an excellent Clio Sport, which would comfortably outrun a 328/330 on all but the longest tracks. Get something even cheaper (like my 206 GTi) and you can have a well-prepped car for under your budget.
As for people recommending the E46 Compact - don't waste your time. Still >1.4T, and suffering all the same problems as the full-size E46.
Ultimately if you just want the grin factor and dont care about making way on the straights then the Clio is hard to beat for the cost.
I own an e36 328 coupe, I dont regret buying it despite the funds plowed into it thus far with decent suspension, cage install and engine mods still to come. Overall great fun in RWD format and quite capable of embarrassing much faster cars once fettled (inc. the driver lol).
thats a good point - the two 328s i've had never used a drop of oil in about 20 trackdays, whereas a 330ci drank an entire sump full over 5 trackdays. then the engine blew up.
i love my 328i with tyres, brakes and suspension, plus lightweighting - happily keeps up with caterham academy cars, normally mixing it up with stuff in the next cost bracket up.
i love my 328i with tyres, brakes and suspension, plus lightweighting - happily keeps up with caterham academy cars, normally mixing it up with stuff in the next cost bracket up.
brillomaster said:
thats a good point - the two 328s i've had never used a drop of oil in about 20 trackdays, whereas a 330ci drank an entire sump full over 5 trackdays. then the engine blew up.
i love my 328i with tyres, brakes and suspension, plus lightweighting - happily keeps up with caterham academy cars, normally mixing it up with stuff in the next cost bracket up.
Yeah, my E46 was an SE with mismatched tyres and standard brakes. No track car, that's for sure. i love my 328i with tyres, brakes and suspension, plus lightweighting - happily keeps up with caterham academy cars, normally mixing it up with stuff in the next cost bracket up.
The oil problem has put me off M54s completely. A shame.
330's come with bigger brakes, even then they aren't up to track work (as i discovered on my first time out recently) but I'm hoping all it needs are some good pads (as my e36 did). All 328Ci's will have the 5 speed gearbox, which isn't great, late cars (facelifted 330's) will have the 6 speed which I would hope is better.
Mine hasn't used any oil, including at the track.
Mine hasn't used any oil, including at the track.
Edited by varsas on Thursday 29th June 20:30
E46 328i out of your choices
It's the cheaper of the two cars and IMHO more confidence inspiring. Both me and a mate owned an E36 323i with Poly bushes and new Koni suspension. We never got on with the chassis. Ok it was on 128k but his now 151k and much neglected and bodged 328i is a nicer drive. It's not just the chassis either. That's on OE replacement shocks from 5 years ago and stock elsewhere!
Yes they weigh more than an E36 but for once I don't think it matters!
It's the cheaper of the two cars and IMHO more confidence inspiring. Both me and a mate owned an E36 323i with Poly bushes and new Koni suspension. We never got on with the chassis. Ok it was on 128k but his now 151k and much neglected and bodged 328i is a nicer drive. It's not just the chassis either. That's on OE replacement shocks from 5 years ago and stock elsewhere!
Yes they weigh more than an E36 but for once I don't think it matters!
varsas said:
330's come with bigger brakes, even then they aren't up to track work
I know it is not the same due to the weight penalty but I had an e36 328 which I upgraded to e46 330 front discs/braided hoses/Pagid RS29/superblue (as it was then) and AP 4-pots from a Tuscan/clio V6 and found that the difference it made wrt being able to lean on them heavily on track was noticeable when extra cooling was added in the way of flexi ducts from the bumper to the TRE held on with st/steel cable ties.E-bmw said:
I know it is not the same due to the weight penalty but I had an e36 328 which I upgraded to e46 330 front discs/braided hoses/Pagid RS29/superblue (as it was then) and AP 4-pots from a Tuscan/clio V6 and found that the difference it made wrt being able to lean on them heavily on track was noticeable when extra cooling was added in the way of flexi ducts from the bumper to the TRE held on with st/steel cable ties.
This ^^^From the e3x e4x cars for the budget the best choice with the most scope for improvement imo is the e36 platform. However just within that budget, hence why better to buy a prepped car and get more for your money.
Just adding cooling ducts to the OEM brakes of the 328 with half decent set of pads is sufficient for endurance. We run this setup for a while with crap ebc pads std. Discs and calipers and the car could comfortably do 10-15 lap stints at Bedford GT, can't say the same for the operator though lol. Now using CL 5+ and CL6 pads with no servo and twin MC setup still on standard discs and calipers. With road rubber Conti5's and crap suspension lap times have been shaved by circa 5secs on Bedford GT. Brakes are not an issue if the car is stripped and decent pads are used is what I'm getting at.
Yet to see any E46 (exc fettled M3's with more suspension and rubber than half of our build budget) give our car a showing to. Standardish M3's get in the way regularly nowadays.
Humour said:
I am yet to see a Clio of any kind come past even those running on semi slicks whist we run on crap or used sport tyres like Conti3's, neither of which are the tip of performance.
Ultimately if you just want the grin factor and dont care about making way on the straights then the Clio is hard to beat for the cost.
When talking 3 series, I've found its only well driven M3s that I've had any reason to move over for in the Clio.Ultimately if you just want the grin factor and dont care about making way on the straights then the Clio is hard to beat for the cost.
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