BMW 330 v 328 as track car

[1781cc]

loggyboy said:

When talking 3 series, I've found its only well driven M3s that I've had any reason to move over for in the Clio.

I've found the same in my TT and even then its only top end new M-cars, even a stock M4 isn't that quick around a circuit overall.

Some of the best blats I have had with other cars have been well sorted clios and civics so go figure

[shindha]

After reading the thread "Daily-Track Day Car for £2K Lap times, weight, power + more" https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

I'm starting to like the RX8, I have a MX5 is it much different to it?

[DMN]

The RX8 is based on the same chassis as the MX5 NC. So there are similarities, but at least around a track like Blyton an MX5 will be faster.

[Humour]

shindha said:

After reading the thread "Daily-Track Day Car for £2K Lap times, weight, power + more" https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

I'm starting to like the RX8, I have a MX5 is it much different to it?

There is another thread on here of an RX8 being used for track duties. Iirc it has 2 stroke oil injected to lubricate the seals. The oil consumption is high and the usual bushes/suspension/etc. mods apply. The owner has spent allot of time and effort on mods. Look in The my car section for The build thread. The buy price is cheap for most of these cars bmw, mx5, clios, because they will all require refreshing to use on track consistently and reliably, hence why I keep telling you to look at used prepped cars. Way more value there if you can look past the perceived it's been trashed, don't like the paintwork, wing, etc.

My choice would be an mx5 with a roof simply because it's lighter than the e36, so in general consumables costs are 20~30% lower than the e36. Upgrades also lower in some cases but not all. So again it comes back to budget beyond the buy price. Our car despite the 200 quid comedy suspension is unrecognizable from the 1K buy price state of 3 years ago, but it's had over 4K invested into it by refreshing all parts underneath and upgrading in areas to get a shaper tool for the job. Nobody will pay half of the investment in the car if it was put on sale, hence why prepped cars are good starting point and good value for limited budgets, but of course I would advise due diligence like any other investment. Other benefits are less time spent under the thing therefore more driving.

[Humour]

loggyboy said:

When talking 3 series, I've found its only well driven M3s that I've had any reason to move over for in the Clio.

Each to their own in terms of experiences and all that. We do often get asked if we have an M3 under the bonnet but its a trusty old M52.

Out of curiosity though are you running N.A. or turbo? Slick semi or road tyres? Any reference lap times on Donnington International or Bedford GT layouts?

[braddo]

There are a couple of other posts on threads here from 2 guys who have been running a RX8 PZ for a while, which has needed nothing doing and as a bone stock car is consistently beating Clios and MX5 in the sprint competitions they enter.

RX8s are underrated - they're far more track ready than a 3 series and the reliability and fuel consumption issues are far smaller when the car is only used for hard driving vs day-to-day pootling.

[loggyboy]

Humour said:

Each to their own in terms of experiences and all that. We do often get asked if we have an M3 under the bonnet but its a trusty old M52.

Out of curiosity though are you running N.A. or turbo? Slick semi or road tyres? Any reference lap times on Donnington International or Bedford GT layouts?

Most definitely. Its never truely possible to judge when most boils down to not only driver ability but desire to push, or take risk. Which understandably most trackdayers arent going to be.
My clio is largely standard bar filter, exhaust, coilovers and various brands of track tyres. Sadly not done donnington, did do Bedford a few years back in my old underpowered 172 but cant recal times. Times at Silverstone GP are 2:41 and a 1:33 at Thruxton. https://youtu.be/pK68hPpfCH8

[Humour]

loggyboy said:

Most definitely. Its never truely possible to judge when most boils down to not only driver ability but desire to push, or take risk. Which understandably most trackdayers arent going to be.

Agreed. The only real measure is the same equipment with alternating drivers, same day, conditions, etc.

On balance however, ppl go on a track day to lean on the machine in a manner not possible and safe on the road. I drive with that in mind but stay aware and allow faster cars to pass without slowing their progress, so expect the same awareness in return, so those with different limits can also have their enjoyment.

Not been to Silverstone yet. Refuse to do it until new suspension and brake system is to my liking. Will get there soon I hope as it's local so criminal not go experience it.

[varsas]

I must admit I'm surprised by talk of Clios being faster than 328's/330's. That doesn't match my experience.

See this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf_nX1uof90
from 1:06

or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jyrIhI6khI
from 4:30

For the avoidance of doubt the e36 328i (non sport) is standard except for PF zero front brake pads, with nothing (air-con, stereo, seats etc) removed. It's on 15 inch wheels and Pirelli P7 or Continental ContiSportContact 2 tyres.

Of course it should be remembered that faster =/= more fun...perhaps an element of us remembering the cars we overtook and fogetting the ones which came by!

Edited by varsas on Thursday 13th July 14:27

[loggyboy]

varsas said:

I must admit I'm surprised by talk of Clios being faster than 328's/330's. That doesn't match my experience.

See this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf_nX1uof90
from 1:06

or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jyrIhI6khI
from 4:30

For the avoidance of doubt the e36 328i (non sport) is standard except for PF zero front brake pads, with nothing (air-con, stereo, seats etc) removed. It's on 15 inch wheels and Pirelli P7 or Continental ContiSportContact 2 tyres.

Of course it should be remembered that faster =/= more fun...

Edited by varsas on Thursday 13th July 13:59

As mentioned above, its impossible to tell the ability of the driver, if its even there car, are they on a warm up/cool down lap, first time on track, just no there to give it 10/10ths.

Theres been plenty 'giants' my little clio has 'appeared' to be faster than. I've also had comments asking what engine mine has as they couldnt keep up (Z4m coupe at silverstone for example) and they were genuinely shocked when i say its standard, and on stupid high miles. - in that situation it was just down to being able to carry speed out of bends and brake later.

[caelite]

loggyboy said:

When talking 3 series, I've found its only well driven M3s that I've had any reason to move over for in the Clio.

I must say I notice the same with my Mx5, although my local track has a large straight so I tend to come round the last corner at full pelt and wait a full 2-3 seconds before half a dozen scoobies fly past at full chat.

The bimmers all seem to be bringing up the rear wallowing around the corners sideways, looks great fun, but not exactly fast

[varsas]

caelite said:

loggyboy said:

When talking 3 series, I've found its only well driven M3s that I've had any reason to move over for in the Clio.

I must say I notice the same with my Mx5, although my local track has a large straight so I tend to come round the last corner at full pelt and wait a full 2-3 seconds before half a dozen scoobies fly past at full chat.

The bimmers all seem to be bringing up the rear wallowing around the corners sideways, looks great fun, but not exactly fast

We may have to agree to disagree there! There is an MX5 at 1:43 on this video, and I'm sure others...again representative of my experience of them...it seems to have a rollcage. In the same video there is another Clio pretty much from the start. This one does have a novice sticker on the back so I assumed it was a race car? Just to say, big fan of MX5's, fantastic road car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jyrIhI6khI

Edited by varsas on Thursday 13th July 17:23

[caelite]

varsas said:

We may have to agree to disagree there! There is an MX5 at 1:43 on this video, and I'm sure others...again representative of my experience of them...it seems to have a rollcage. In the same video there is another Clio pretty much from the start. This one does have a novice sticker on the back so I assumed it was a race car? Just to say, big fan of MX5's, fantastic road car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jyrIhI6khI

Good video, I did say it a bit tongue in cheek. Generally on a track they are fast, but they seem really easy to get out of shape on a technical autocross course, & I don't think I have ever seen a bimmer at Knockhill that actually has any meat on their rear tyres, not sure if that is the cause or the effect though. Scottish thrift & heavy German cars might not be the best combination, the last track day I did (February) everyone on the circuit seemed to be getting mauled by silly horsepower Scooby's, they really blitz everything in the rain. Such a brutish car to drive though, slow entry then violently throw it into the apex whilst stomping on the loud peddle.

Man... I'd be tempted to buy another Scoob if my last 3 didn't try to bankrupt me.

Edited by caelite on Thursday 13th July 19:36

[shindha]

Thanks to all for the advice, in the end bought another Westfield project, this one is road registered so doesn't need an IVA, but needs a complete strip and rebuild.