Daily-Track Day Car for £2K Lap times, weight, power + more
Discussion
SonicShadow said:
Frimley111R said:
E-bmw said:
SirSquidalot said:
Clio 197 is the most likely car i'll go for.
They are fairly quick, but also heavy & SO un-inviting aurally!you can understand why 1x2s are in demand
I think you are missing the point on the running cost part, track cars will go through consumables at a rate of knots, brakes, tyres etc etc. This is why Mx5s/Clios are so popular in the low price ranges, because they don't weigh anything. A 1000kg car is going to go through brakes a lot less than a 1400kg car, and the 195/50r15s you can replaced for £60 a corner for a good set of track focused tyres rather than close to £100 for more beefier sizes.
Both Clio RS and Mx5s also make great, cheap, dailies.
MX5 also has the advantage of a fairly lightweight cabin, diminishing the urge to remove things, the only real weight saving you can make is replacing the seats.
Both Clio RS and Mx5s also make great, cheap, dailies.
MX5 also has the advantage of a fairly lightweight cabin, diminishing the urge to remove things, the only real weight saving you can make is replacing the seats.
Edited by caelite on Wednesday 5th July 10:45
E-bmw said:
Frimley111R said:
E-bmw said:
SirSquidalot said:
Clio 197 is the most likely car i'll go for.
They are fairly quick, but also heavy & SO un-inviting aurally!SonicShadow said:
Chasing lap times and being a daily driver don't mix... If you're chasing lap times then chances are you're going to want to improve them. All of a sudden you've got a stripped interior, modded engine, suspension that doesn't work very well on the road and a very empty wallet!
This is why I don't time on track; I track my daily and I want it to stay comfy! A few people have commented that my car rolls a fair bit through corners, but that's the trade off. E-bmw said:
Frimley111R said:
E-bmw said:
SirSquidalot said:
Clio 197 is the most likely car i'll go for.
They are fairly quick, but also heavy & SO un-inviting aurally!MFR_TT said:
I'm on the look out for a 172/182 for around £1,500 - £2,000 and intend to use it as a daily driver and for the occasional track run.
Same for me, early next tear.Seriously OP, they are perfect for what you're looking for. Don't discount them as they are popular for a reason.
MX5 is another good shout. They're a bit more impractical and obviously have less performance but they are RWD.
E-bmw said:
Pros
Eminently tuneable to 230 - 250 hp.
Upgraded parts easily available.
05/06 models with Chilli pack inevitably have LSD from factory & with even length end drive shafts torque steer has been engineered out.
Cons
Supercharger can fail if not lubricated correctly, which strangely isn't a service item.
Cam chains on earlier ones (you want the later one anyway with the 170hp engine) and they will either be good or done by now.
PAS pumps/motors can whine.
Good stuff Eminently tuneable to 230 - 250 hp.
Upgraded parts easily available.
05/06 models with Chilli pack inevitably have LSD from factory & with even length end drive shafts torque steer has been engineered out.
Cons
Supercharger can fail if not lubricated correctly, which strangely isn't a service item.
Cam chains on earlier ones (you want the later one anyway with the 170hp engine) and they will either be good or done by now.
PAS pumps/motors can whine.
CABC said:
i'd ignore 0-60 and lap times for track day fun and focus on handling and weight.
on track days you'll often see heavy, modern M3s rolling through the corners before splatting down the straight to set faster lap times. Great road cars often wallow on track even if their power makes them faster overall. An hour in an AMG at Brooklands will show that quite well.
Why not a Clio? Honda hatch? At least the older BMW will be lighter and have a lot of aftermarket support, especially new suspension.
Clio - does not meet the criteria of this topic. Honda is in the list. on track days you'll often see heavy, modern M3s rolling through the corners before splatting down the straight to set faster lap times. Great road cars often wallow on track even if their power makes them faster overall. An hour in an AMG at Brooklands will show that quite well.
Why not a Clio? Honda hatch? At least the older BMW will be lighter and have a lot of aftermarket support, especially new suspension.
If the 'older' BMW is e36, it is not light. e36 328 1.4T v e46 328 1,4T
SonicShadow said:
loggyboy said:
300bhp/ton said:
Interesting thread. 
And I'm also unsure the relevance of 'lap times' on a track day???
Because Racecar.And I'm also unsure the relevance of 'lap times' on a track day???
But seriously, whilst TDer's shouldn't timing, a lot do and - anyone who chooses a track car because its specifically intended for track and known to be capable will most likely be looking to make comparisons, and laptime is the only comparison that really counts.
MFR_TT said:
I'm on the look out for a 172/182 for around £1,500 - £2,000 and intend to use it as a daily driver and for the occasional track run.
I have two children and have owned a 172 Cup previously, I can't see any faults in it as a daily driver. Any car with four seats is fine as a daily, as long as you aren't doing mega miles. Then again I still can't see any issues with the Clio, it offers fair MPG.
Some people use the Renault Twizy as a daily driver, some - the Ford F-650. It is all about your individual needs as a driver.I have two children and have owned a 172 Cup previously, I can't see any faults in it as a daily driver. Any car with four seats is fine as a daily, as long as you aren't doing mega miles. Then again I still can't see any issues with the Clio, it offers fair MPG.
caelite said:
I think you are missing the point on the running cost part, track cars will go through consumables at a rate of knots, brakes, tyres etc etc. This is why Mx5s/Clios are so popular in the low price ranges, because they don't weigh anything. A 1000kg car is going to go through brakes a lot less than a 1400kg car, and the 195/50r15s you can replaced for £60 a corner for a good set of track focused tyres rather than close to £100 for more beefier sizes.
Both Clio RS and Mx5s also make great, cheap, dailies.
MX5 also has the advantage of a fairly lightweight cabin, diminishing the urge to remove things, the only real weight saving you can make is replacing the seats.
Great point. The lighter the car, the better it is on consumables - this is why we have that column called 'Weight'. However, I would not agree that both Clio and MX5s are great dailies, especially the MX5 (for example, one important reason - Safety 0 points)Both Clio RS and Mx5s also make great, cheap, dailies.
MX5 also has the advantage of a fairly lightweight cabin, diminishing the urge to remove things, the only real weight saving you can make is replacing the seats.
Edited by caelite on Wednesday 5th July 10:45
The aim of this topic is to find well balanced cheap cars for track and daily use (despite how optimistic that sounds). I will create a new topic for track oriented cars within different budgets and Clio/MX5s will definitely be there.
Edited by Justinas on Tuesday 18th July 20:38
Also for general input I have an e90 330i daily I also use for track. Book figures quote 1450kg.
I took it on track with duff SE(comfort setup) rear suspension (dead shocks) and it held up fantastically . I was able to keep up with a friend's mapped Audi TT 2.0 TFSI and just about hang onto my brothers mapped 123d at Blyton. Our cars all weigh near the same and have roughly the same power. My downfall was transitions where the dead rear meant I had to slow right down to keep control.
It was always my intention to turn this car into a daily track car. It now has a chunky steering wheel, weighted gear knob, Eibach springs, Bilstein dampers, mv3 alloys (wider rears) and yellowstuffs all round. I think it adds up to about 1k-1.5k.
I commute 50 miles per day and it's brilliant. It doesn't handle bumpy B roads like my 182 used to (I think this is fwd territory), but A roads it's amazing and comfortable. It's going to Donnington at the end of the month then hopefully Silverstone.
I took it on track with duff SE(comfort setup) rear suspension (dead shocks) and it held up fantastically . I was able to keep up with a friend's mapped Audi TT 2.0 TFSI and just about hang onto my brothers mapped 123d at Blyton. Our cars all weigh near the same and have roughly the same power. My downfall was transitions where the dead rear meant I had to slow right down to keep control.
It was always my intention to turn this car into a daily track car. It now has a chunky steering wheel, weighted gear knob, Eibach springs, Bilstein dampers, mv3 alloys (wider rears) and yellowstuffs all round. I think it adds up to about 1k-1.5k.
I commute 50 miles per day and it's brilliant. It doesn't handle bumpy B roads like my 182 used to (I think this is fwd territory), but A roads it's amazing and comfortable. It's going to Donnington at the end of the month then hopefully Silverstone.
Definitely my money would be on a 182 had one years ago and loved it. Sadly never got to track it but it was grate fun on the twistes. And because they are so popular on the track parts and upgrades are cheap. A good set of pads and tyres and away you go. Just make sure the belts have been done.
Edited by Not-The-Messiah on Tuesday 18th July 21:22
Justinas said:
Great point. The lighter the car, the better it is on consumables - this is why we have that column called 'Weight'. However, I would not agree that both Clio and MX5s are great dailies, especially the MX5 (for example, one important reason - Safety 0 points)
The aim of this topic is to find well balanced cheap cars for track and daily use (despite how optimistic that sounds). I will create a new topic for track oriented cars within different budgets and Clio/MX5s will definitely be there.
Find me a track setup MX5 that doesn't have a rollbar on it The aim of this topic is to find well balanced cheap cars for track and daily use (despite how optimistic that sounds). I will create a new topic for track oriented cars within different budgets and Clio/MX5s will definitely be there.
Edited by Justinas on Tuesday 18th July 20:38
, its like the 2nd or 3rd mod for any owner with more than 3 braincells to rub together (Tyres, Coils/Geo, Bar). It just seems like you are discounting the most obvious options for seemingly intangible reasons. A Clio works just as well as a daily as a Mini or Civic, an MX5 works well enough as a daily once you get over the fact you are a crap designated driver, the boots plenty big and it's more comfortable than most hot hatches about when set up right. For £2k beggers can't be choosers, there is a reason there is a very specific popular selection within this price range. Most of the other options you have picked up will cost a bloody fortune to track regularly.
And as another suggestion, Subaru Impreza? You can pick them up for <£2k, although they are likely to be dogs they will be no worse than a S3 at that price
. With a bit of money sunk into them they can be absolute monsters, even in the hands of modestly skilled drivers. Justinas said:
Some people chase lap times to track their progress of improving their driving skills. You do not need to mod your car to be better on track. The cheapest/best way to become a better driver is to improve your skills. Let's say your best lap time of a certain track is 1:30, let a racing driver drive your car and set his personal record. If his lap time is 1:20, you will know how much you can improve your lap time by improving your driving skills.
That is true, to an extent. But IME uts quite easy to reach the limits of a 'lower end of the spectrum' car, even if its s track oriented car like a clio or an mx5, and the second cheapest is to progress that car, before leaping to a car thats a lot faster - it will also teach about how the varibles can effect characteristics of a car. Alot will depend on the driver, it was only 3-4 track days before i choose to take an instructor out, and he said i was largely on the limit of what my car could do in its current form. So i chose the only route my budget would allow, mod the car a few parts (and therefore a few quid) at a time. Now im proud me and my car are knocking on the door of very respectable race car times, which i wouldn't be if it was standard, and i would have no clue of what to compare to, as there arent many (any?) pure road spec race series. Even comparing to my old times its no clue to real pace.Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff