Ex works Vauxhall Astra BTCC track car

[Olivera]

HustleRussell said:

Would not be at all surprised to hear that £15k was the cost of a periodic refresh. And even if properly refreshed, you are only ever one oil leak, overheat or random failure away from a needing a new block, head, crank, piston type scenario which could cost multiples.

IMO the value in these cars is best protected by ensuring that it can be returned to race finishing spec as the OP is doing, whereas running the car in race spec, having a catastrophic engine failure and then having to remortgage the house to have it put right or ending up with a box full of shrapnel instead of an engine would be far worse.

15k for a light refresh sounds like balls, a major rebuild perhaps. Running the engine to a lower rev limit (e.g 7500rpm) in a non-race setting (track day with traffic and hence less time at WOT) is going to drastically lengthen the engine life, so the idea that it could simply explode at any point is pessimistic to say the least.

[HustleRussell]

Olivera said:

HustleRussell said:

Would not be at all surprised to hear that £15k was the cost of a periodic refresh. And even if properly refreshed, you are only ever one oil leak, overheat or random failure away from a needing a new block, head, crank, piston type scenario which could cost multiples.

IMO the value in these cars is best protected by ensuring that it can be returned to race finishing spec as the OP is doing, whereas running the car in race spec, having a catastrophic engine failure and then having to remortgage the house to have it put right or ending up with a box full of shrapnel instead of an engine would be far worse.

15k for a light refresh sounds like balls, a major rebuild perhaps. Running the engine to a lower rev limit (e.g 7500rpm) in a non-race setting (track day with traffic and hence less time at WOT) is going to drastically lengthen the engine life, so the idea that it could simply explode at any point is pessimistic to say the least.

Dad and I ran a Lotus twin cam last season. It cost £Nk in total to put it together. We rationalised this against the fact that the periodic refresh was going to cost a fraction of that and the engine builder recommended refresh interval of 15 hours would cover a season so long as we didn't do the Spa 6 hour. All fine and dandy until 12 hours' use later a valve seat cracked and departed company from the head before jamming the exhaust valve which broke and after thoroughly peening the whole interior of the combustion chamber was punched through the cylinder head. Only the crank and three rods were salvageable. You have to work on the basis that it could simply explode at some point, and if you can't live with that, put it under the bench. st happens.

After that I decided to go back to Caterhams instead- they're cheaper to fix. But a head gasket problem wrote off the head and the block couldn't be properly checked without fully dismantling it so in the end it was a replacement engine. The OP won't be able to do that.

[braddo]

Great thread!!

Olivera said:

IMO the value in these cars is running them in original specification, doing otherwise is a bodge.

That doesn't quite make sense to me.

The value in this car for the current owner is to use and enjoy the car. It sounds like that is best achieved but the new substitute engine.

The value in running the car in original spec is when coming to sell the car.

[E-bmw]

All good points & all have merit.

At the end of the day it is the guy who's wallet will swallow the cost who decides.

As he has said the OP knows what he is going to be comfortable with.

If it was your money, you would get a say.

......... Carry on

[agent006]

braddo said:

The value in running the car in original spec is when coming to sell the car.

Yep. Have fun with it now, but preserve what it was. As pompous as it sounds, owning something like this does have an element of being custodian to it.

[xjay1337]

Great updates. I too would change rhe engine.

[Thurbs]

agent006 said:

Yep. Have fun with it now, but preserve what it was. As pompous as it sounds, owning something like this does have an element of being custodian to it.

I agree and that is sort of my point about just doing track days also...

[Micky Taylor 888]

Nice to see this is coming along mate, I would personally kept the engine but that's just me lol, they are massively expensive to run and maintain you really do need deep pockets to go racing 😬 You would be able to find a cheaper well known engine builder than Swindon, your paying for the name now day's, but watching with interest! At least she's not sitting out in the rain anymore 😁

[TimCrighton]

£15k doesn't seem unreasonable for these. You are dealing with a high number of bespoke components and a high attrition rate on the internals.

Providing the OP retains the original engine and can easily revert to this then I don't see the problem. Race cars change and evolve over time, but providing you can undo what you are doing I don't see the problem. We are not talking about cutting the shell around here...

Who is doing the gearbox? I would recommend Racing Transmissions at Swindon - they are excellent on these and do a number of race boxes for us through the seasons.

On the engine, I'd suggest speaking to Ridgeway Engines, this is most of the team who used to be at Swindon Racing Engines but they are a bit more reasonable.

Enjoy it.

[VX BlackRat]

Thanks for the recommendations Tim, I've got Steve @ SGS Transmissions just outside Aylesbury lined up to inspect the Xtrac.They can also make any ratios should I need to adjust due to engine running a lower (8k vs 8.5k) RPM.

The engine swap will be completely reversible - future value / going racing in original spec will be preserved.

Hit a bit of a snag on the crank to flywheel compatibility though. The Sodemo has a 8 bolt fixing, the 2.4NA crank I'm planning to use has a 6, so mulling over potential solutions, currently thinking custom flywheel will be best option.

[Micky Taylor 888]

I'd speak to helix mate Iv just had one made for my 888 coupe, they would be able to copy the sodomo one and make it with the fixings you need.

[VX BlackRat]

Cheers Mickey, just sent them a email.
Was yours a custom fly? What was the cost?

[Micky Taylor 888]

Mine was for a Z20leh flywheel to delete the duel mass as running a m32 box so wasn't custom as they have done a fair few before, came as a 3 piece kit was £760 odd at trade price mate

[VX BlackRat]

Cheers mate, Helix can reverse engineer me a flywheel, just waiting on a price.

Meanwhile SGS have just opened up the Xtrac, initial look at the internals seem to be in good nick.

[grumpy52]

For those wondering about reducing the revs on these sort of engines and the cost of rebuilds of race engines.
The Nissan Primera that I used to help.look after had nothing below about 5800 RPM and didn't really come on cam until 6500 so reduction of the rev limit is not going to be very practical and possibly detrimental to the health of the engine , not running the engine cleanly could result in missfires , bent valves and ultimately full failures .
As for rebuild costs , race engines are nothing like road engines .
They are built to much closer tolerances and many parts are matched and specific for its intended purpose.
Old favourites like a BDG engine would regularly have bills of £12k for a rebuild this on an engine purchased for £15k .
They can go bang at any time without much if any warning .

[ChevronB19]

Olivera said:

HustleRussell said:

Would not be at all surprised to hear that £15k was the cost of a periodic refresh. And even if properly refreshed, you are only ever one oil leak, overheat or random failure away from a needing a new block, head, crank, piston type scenario which could cost multiples.

IMO the value in these cars is best protected by ensuring that it can be returned to race finishing spec as the OP is doing, whereas running the car in race spec, having a catastrophic engine failure and then having to remortgage the house to have it put right or ending up with a box full of shrapnel instead of an engine would be far worse.

15k for a light refresh sounds like balls, a major rebuild perhaps. Running the engine to a lower rev limit (e.g 7500rpm) in a non-race setting (track day with traffic and hence less time at WOT) is going to drastically lengthen the engine life, so the idea that it could simply explode at any point is pessimistic to say the least.

A top end formula junior engine can easily reach 20k, 15K for a refresh of this type of engine doesn’t surprise me at all. Try a refresh of an F1 DFV, 40K plus!

[HustleRussell]

Dad's just taken delivery of a new Richardson engine for his Lotus 22

[Stedman]

Blackrat Good name and great thread

[Mgd_uk]

Did you ever get the car a few laps out anywhere? I seen the started video and it sounds amazing, if I owned this I would be dying to take it a run around my local track for the experience as a fully working car, then put the engine away for safe keeping

[ChevronB19]

HustleRussell said:

Dad's just taken delivery of a new Richardson engine for his Lotus 22

Lovely! We build our own, but nowhere near as powerful (and fortunately nowhere near as expensive!). We race in HRSR saloons now, but did Juniors in the 80’s in a Yimkin and an Emeryson.